tomorrow I hand over my children to the OW for the first time

[chocoreturns]

I don't know what else to say, just need a hand hold tonight.

OW and STBXH are now house hunting 15 mins from my house, and spending EOW with my baby and DS. They have been lying about her being there right up until today. I finally reached the end of my tether, while listening to DS1 tell me all about house hunting with OW all day, having been told he was with only his dad and granny.

So I called STBXH and told him I'm over it, it's time to stop pretending I'm an ogre who can't bear to meet her, and to bring her to handover. If she's going to be on my doorstep and having my children in her home, I need to know who she is. She took my baby DS2 swimming with his dad today - it was his first swim. I am far beyond anger now and I'm just sad about it all :(

Not sure what to say to her, but I would like to take her to one side when STBXH is putting the kids in the car, and say look - I know you and I aren't going to be friends, but my children are my priority, and I need to know they are safe and happy when they're not with me. If you ever don't know what to do, or you're on your own with them and you think they need me, please know that it's ok to call me and I'll be fine with you. Then give her my number.

Is that mad? Or sensible and mature?

This is a moment I need a mumsnet straw poll :(

I don't think I could hand my child over to be looked after by the OW. I just couldn't. But not sure what the law would say on this. But I know I would just not be able to. If it was a new girlfriend then I suppose I might have to but not the person who my husband had cheated with. No I think that is unacceptable.

You are being incredibly courageous even though it must feel like drowning.

Hope you have a lot of old and new support for you in your new place.

Viviennemary, I'm sure it's very, very easy to say things like that when you are still with your husband.

However, if you should ever find youself in the situation where your DH cheats on you then you will probably do what Choco, and I, and other mums on this thread do and hand your children over to their dad because you have to. If my DS it to grow up healthy and happy then he needs as good a relationship with his dad as it is possible to have and I have to facilitate that. And the law agrees with that too.

Oh Choco.

Just remember you have been honest all the way through. You still have your integrity. You have only told OW where she stands honestly and remarkably mildly considering.

You will never regret saying what you did and if you hadn't said it you would always have wished you had.

Remember, your PIL's and OW had had Twunt's spin on the whole thing incessantly for months. "Yes, Choco's fine with it." "Yes Choco wants to meet OW as she wants us all to get on". "Oh yes she's very happy about it."He was probably very convincing because he had convinced himself of it.

You have been incredibly restrained in your dealings with PIL and what you've said about Twunt, so with a bit of wishful thinking they've probably been taken in by his lies version.

So, when he goes back to PILs relaying stories of you being unfriendly, or downright rude (his version, remember) they will be shocked and upset.Of course, it brings them all slap bang up to the reality of what their son has done.

Bloody good thing too. About time they stopped living a nice cosy fantasy life where you are delighted about OW and Twunt walking off into the sunset with your babies.

Tell them, and remember it is not your responsibility to make them happy.

DCs' firsts, Mothering Sunday, birthday treats - I can see there will be conflict ahead. Twisting the knife no doubt. Your ex must have been disappointed you haven't fought over him so now he stoops to point scoring with his own DCs.

The important thing is they won't damage your bond with your boys, they're on the periphery (wtaf looking at properties near yours), but it's all bluster and noise like a fart in a gale.

Your influence will be the stronger, more enduring.

I do feel like I'm drowning sometimes. Choking back my own tears while my baby cries and cries and cries, I've not eaten and have no opportunity to cook for myself. As soon as he's down I have to clean the kitchen etc - I know it's no different for countless single parents, or military wives or anyone else for whatever reason on their own. But it's so heartbreaking to know that in the back ground the person I loved and trusted enough to start a family with is working away with his OW to undermine me. I'm not surprised any more. His own father is abusive, he's following the pattern to a tee. But I am consistently disappointed, even when not surprised, but the number of people willing to collude with him (even just by standing by and doing nothing).

Sometimes I'm so unwaveringly polite and positive about it all in public it's all I can do to stop myself screaming in frustration on my own. Then I just think what's the point? Nothing changes. One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

I need to remind myself that I am dealing with someone who chooses to behave appallingly and am surrounded by people who wish I was simply misunderstanding him.

I think people, in general, just want an easy life. It's eaiser, and nicer, if you could just get on with your ex and his skank. That's more important to your ex ILs than your well-being. So sorry, Choco.

choco, fuck the kitchen

it will still be there tomorrow

get your baby settled, pour a cuppa or a glass of wine and watch some shit on the telly or chat to us

then get an early night, you must be fucking wrung out

oh, and that lovely new man you have ?

if you haven't yet...fuck his brains out next time you see him

hahaha Anyfucker that just made me really laugh :)

I haven't yet. Had my first kiss from someone other than twunt in 7 years though so it may happen yet!!

Just read the bit about your in laws.

What the actual fuck?!

They seriously expect you all to be mates after all that has happened?

Their attitudes explain so much about why ex is like this.

Oh choco you're dealing with so much if my DH was to ever to this to me I hope I'd have even half of your strength.

One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

Because you're trying to fight fire with reason, choco. Fire isn't reasonable - it just burns. You want to be dignified, restrained and mature. But those are weapons that work best when backed up by a nuclear threat.

It seems like a cycle - you try to be dignified and far too understanding (sitting in a cafe during his statutory ten minutes with his baby FFS) until you can't take it any more, and then you take action. Withdrawing contact (for which I do not blame you in the slightest) or resetting the rules, which only gives him a chance to retaliate. You said he had to pick them up himself, he responds by forcing the issue of the OW. You withdraw contact entirely, he responds by househunting 15 mins from your house.

Fuck knows how someone so thoroughly decent and kind ended up with this shit-for-brains in the first place, choco, but you're still not seeing him for what he truly is. You have to stop being nice. He is teaching your son to call his girlfriend mummy. He did it the very first time you allowed them to meet. He will push you and punish you for as long as you let him. Just as he did when you were married.

The behaviour is escalating. They will push the boundaries until you don't know where they are any more - you know, like abusers do. Don't be reasonable about it in public, it's what he uses to manipulate you. You are allowed to be angry. Guess what? We are angry for you!

you are right of course. Thank you for reminding me - sometimes I'm so caught up in the day I'm in I lose the bigger picture. I guess I find it so utterly beyond me the way he thinks/behaves that I just can't believe how bad it can and does get sometimes.

And I think I sound like a loon when I say to people in RL that he is moving close to me to intimidate me, because they all assume it's to be close to the children (that he couldn't give a rats arse about when they are out of sight).

He's a highly accomplished liar. That's how he persuaded you he was worth marrying in the first place!

But of course by smoothing things over and being polite in public, people are never getting a glimpse of the real him, in order to form a judgement about why he is moving closer to where you are. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Don't keep his secrets.

It is beyond me how anybody ever thinks that you can be friends, or even civil to somebody who has betrayed you and walked out on you. Yes, in time, possibly, people can be civil, but certainly not in the early days and certainly not when they are still spinning packs of lies.

My XH had OW totally on his side, oh poor you, yes she is horrible isn't she, oh you are so sweet and lovely. {vomit} oh isn't she cold and pathetic and childish, poor you having to deal with all that.....

while XH told OW that I could look more "pleased to see him" when he came over to get DD as I always looked so miserable. No shit sherlock, you just walked out on us and betrayed me with OW contact behind my back.....

What the fuck do these twats expect? That they can treat us like this, then 2 months later, expect us all to be friends?

choco you're bloody marvellous. You haven't put a foot wrong. It is so clear that despite how gut-wrenchingly difficult this must be for you, your unwavering priority is your children. Your boys are very very lucky to have you.

I won't keep his secrets any more. If PIL 'come back to me' and I can't see us reaching a positive understanding (god knows what that would even be) I'll be very honest (at last) as to why, tell them it was an abusive relationship and explain clearly in which ways his behaviour has been intimidating, bullying etc.

I don't need them to agree, but I no longer wish to pretend it's just a 'shame' and 'these things happen'. I will make it clear that I will do everything I need to do to make sure my children are safe and that I accept they may not want to spend time with me in the future, if they don't feel they can agree with the way I have experienced everything.

My SIL keeps telling me to stress how the children are 'obviously having a lovely time' as a softener when I ask them to respect my boundaries, but I don't think they are. And I shouldn't have to 'soften the blow' of stating my boundaries. It's just too fucked up.

Accomplished liar doesn't really seem to say it enough, but it's very accurate. That's exactly what he is.

I'm off to bed. Chocolate for tea in the end :)

thanks for all the messages of support. I don't know where I'd be without MN xx

Choco I'm so sorry to hear that your ILs have let you down like this. It's clear where their priorities are and have been for quite sometime.

If only you could move to the opposite end of the country for a bit to get away from them all.

In fact that could be rather amusing. Wait till they have bought a new house near you, then move.

Just read the whole thread - hats off to you Choco - you are so restrained and fantastic... It's such a horrid horrid process that ever goes away (9 years and counting) but all you can do is know that you have behaved beyond reproach - so that you are proud yourself - your ex wouldn't be able to feel/do that -
Hoping for a less stressful day for you tomorrow x

Oh darling. What an awful few days you've had. The bottom line is MIL & stepFIL will always be in his corner & are old hands at being manipulated by him. I feel that you should trust none of them anymore. Contact on YOUR terms. End of. No more negotiations & opinions & interference. Fuck em all.

Choco

I wish I could reach through the space of air and time and give you a hug and to let you know that it is OK to be feeling like you do. You have already been through so much and this no doubt feels like an absolute kick in the teeth which of course it is.

In terms of the 'MummyOW' I don't think this is acceptable and has clearly been driven by STBexH and/or OW. They do not have any other children in the house for him to 'ape' and it is perfectly easy and acceptable to say DS this is OW . Every single person I know who are in blended families call their 'step' parent by their first name aside from one whose mother died when child was an infant and his father's wife was the only 'Mum' he knew. In terms of siblings my DS was told to and calls OW's child his brother and I let that go as in the longer term they will no doubt be like brothers but OW is most definately OW .

In terms of your in-laws my experience has been that initially they were shocked and supportive but over time as OW becomes part of their life and - not talking about yours - but in general I am sure they are capable of perfectly being pefectly 'nice' and 'nice' with the children - and the emotional devastation and upheaval has not been theirs - they will over time just want things back to 'normal' and will have to appetite for discussion or remembering of what has happened. This is very tough to deal with but it has happened to me and I now I just have to get on with it and I dont' engage or discuss. My ex MIL recently pulled me up - unprompted - on something I had taken umbridge with my ex and his OW about (related to a bad case of sunburn) but experience has taught me to say, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this and I'm not sure why we are discussing it etc etc. Similarly ex FIL with whom I was/am-ish close - on meeting her (it took 2 years) told me, unprompted, that she was a delightful country girl with a warm heart who is taking good care of my son and their bond was lovely to see and that must be reassuring for me to hear. I choked on what I wanted to say and simply said, that is nice but surely you must apprecicate that it is something I may agree on at this point given the circumstances and have just pulled back from them. As others have said you need to focus on relationships and friendships that are positive and nurturing and not drag you down. Easier said than done at times and I have only just realisd that I am being to damaged by battling through and trying to maintain relationships that are past their sell by date. Another horrid fall-out of the horrid situation sadly.

On the bright side va va voom to the kiss. I hope your second date is a hugely positive one for you my love, you deserve it.

And bugger the kitchen - Dolly x

Bugger them, the ILs, and the housework, m'dear. you have every right to be angry and to express it. They are NOT acting like normally socialized people but like aliens from the planet Bastard.

(hugs)

Sometimes I'm so unwaveringly polite and positive about it all in public it's all I can do to stop myself screaming in frustration on my own. Then I just think what's the point? Nothing changes. One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

Be less polite. Nobody is handing out medals for being stoic and letting bad things happen to you.

Choose an influential person you know in your social circle, someone who is likely to be a good listener and not someone two-faced, and spill the beans whenever you get the chance. I did this just told one particular woman I know but not extremely well, but she is the sort of woman whom everyone respects and who knows 'everyone' without losing my composure and without seeming to be gilding the lily or being horrible just for the heck of it to exH. Before long, other people were giving me the odd hug if we met.

You are not powerless here -- your children can be taught to say things with their fingers crossed so to speak, and egregious bad behaviour can be brought to the attention of the courts. However, you need to weigh how much it would cost you (not talking in terms of money here) to take him to task on every horrible thing because he could and would only keep at it.

The ILs are all willing to believe you can get over it all and be friends (gackkk) because they are all narcissists.

Read as much as you can about Ns and remember that trying to engage with them is the road to madness. Best bet is bowing out, living your own life with integrity, not taking the bait when it is dangled in front of you, forging your own world that does not include them.

Be assured they will not fool all of the people all of the time. They are not that smart. Some day they will be unmasked.

If you really feel you're coming unstuck, please get some therapy for yourself so you can be a good mum to the DCs. And also because it is miserable to fall apart or let this get in on you.

And sod cleaning -- make yourself something tasty to eat. Go out and get some frozen samosas or something good and tasty for the freezer and don't neglect your own nourishment. Get adult multivits and take them.

I am so very sorry to read this. I am in awe of how dignified you are. You put my petty worries into perspective. I so hope you find some of the peace you deserve.