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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Open relationships

92 replies

pettykins · 15/01/2013 21:57

After 15 years of monogamy my DH has convinced me that we can be happier in a more open relationship. This followed his confession of a number of casual sexual encounters and a deeper relationship with a woman living in another country (yes, all this info came at once). He claims that he needed to "get the casual sex out his system" as I had been his first proper relationship and we married young. For him it was a release and a realisation that it was in fact no big deal and made him appreciate me more. He says he loves and is deeply committed to me and our children and this other relationship is a deep friendship which is helping him find himself. The argument is that one person cannot provide everything for the other. Since I realised that I could accept him and that "fidelity" had been a something of a "sacred cow" for me and I could accept to let it go, we have had the most passionate sex for years, the best conversations and a wonderful new intimacy. Are there any women out there who have had any similar experience - did you go on to have other relationships yourself? Did you ever cope with unwanted feelings of jealousy even if you had accepted it? Is it really possible to change the basis of your marriage so fundamentally and be happy? Opinions please!

OP posts:
bringbacksideburns · 16/01/2013 10:03

So have you told him that Pettykins?

That you don't actually want to have sex on the side? Is his response that he still wants to shag about? I think you need to think seriously about where this is all heading. Don't sacrifice yourself for someone else's selfishness.

SweetSeraphim · 16/01/2013 10:15

Ok, I think open relationships can and do work for some people. Not for me though, I'm too jealous Hmm

However, this isn't really the scenario you're looking at. What's actually happened is that he has been screwing around, possibly is at some sort of risk of being caught, and has admitted it, with a view to carrying on Confused

I actually don't believe for a minute that he would be ok with you doing the same thing, and I don't think you want to. Which is enough reason to say no. Otherwise it could turn into a situation where he's out shagging anything he fancies and you're stuck at home thinking about what he's up to. Horrible.

MadAboutHotChoc · 16/01/2013 10:31

He must be in heaven Hmm

Having been caught cheating, he has managed to turn round the situation so that he gets permission to continue shagging around Hmm

His sense of entitlement, selfishness, arrogance and lack of honesty must make him a real catch Hmm you deserve better.

My understand is that an open relationship is that this will have been agreed by both parties at the start and this is definitely NOT what happened here.

pettykins · 16/01/2013 10:31

Did your relationship start on the premise that is might change to being an open one, or did you come to the idea later?

OP posts:
pettykins · 16/01/2013 10:34

that last post was to cronullansw who mentioned her own open relationship

OP posts:
Dahlen · 16/01/2013 10:35

I think the world would be a happier place if more people embraced open relationships (and took the health risks seriously etc). However, I don't think it can work retrospectively. If you want to go from a monogamous marriage to an open one, it has to be discussed and agreed beforehand, not after one party has been caught being unfaithful for years anyway.

Your level of trust will be unlikely to cope with this. He's lied to you for years instead of having the courage of his convictions to say he wanted an open relationship earlier or to leave to be free to do what he wants. How could you possibly trust him to make sure he takes the risk to your sexual health seriously, let alone your emotional wellbeing in all this.

I don't think the problem is with having an open relationship. I think the problem is your husband.

izzyizin · 16/01/2013 10:35

As I see it, an open relationship is where a couple mutually agree to remain true to each other in mind, but not in body.

The integrity of the relationship, together with any future hopes and ambitions the couple share, need not be adversely affected by their individual sexual dalliances with other parties providing both are coming from a place of emotional security and can trust the other not to exceed any agreed boundaries.

Questions to be resolved prior to embracing a change to the accepted norm include, but are by no means limited to, whether all such liaisons should be of the one night stand variety, are mutual friends fair game. should there be a moratarium on forming sexual relationships within the immediate neighbourhood, what happens if extra marital/curricular activities result in pgs, etc., etc.

Problems with this seemingly Utopian existence can manifest if, for example, one party becomes infatuated with a third party, spending all their available time with them and being emotionally/physically unavailabe to their alleged life partner, who has paled into insignificance in comparison with the more recent paragon.

Difficulties can also arise if one party is more successful than the other in forming sexual liaisons, leaving the other party to twiddle their thumbs while their beloved if off out shagging with their latest squeeze(s).

On a mundane note, consideration should also be given to the hit the family budget may incur should funds be diverted to provide entertainment/gifts etc for assorted paramours of a transient or more permanent nature.

From what you've said, what you have is a far from open relationship in the accepted sense of the term. Had he previously determined that monogamy was not for him at the time of your marriage, your h has committed a gross deceit in not making you aware that he had no intention of keeping the vows he made to you - and/or to any greater being if the ceremony was religious in nature.

As it is, he's waited 15 years and has committed further deceit(s) before informing you of his liberated view of sexual relationships.

The resurgence of passionate sex, meaningful conversations, and revitalised intimacy are not uncommon in the 'hysterical emotional bonding' that can ensue after the discovery that, unknown to the deceived party, a beloved has been having it off with ow/om turned their sexual attention elsewhere.

It may be the case that you'll discover this 'high' is as illusory, or more properly, delusory, as the probable bullshit your h is telling you in order to have his cake and eat it and, in common with many others who have been wronged by deceitful and conniving spouses/partners, this 'second honeymoon' period will be shortlived as you begin to realise that, at most, it represents a holow victory, a temporary triumph of hope over experience.

By adopting your h's alleged philosophy you may find you are able to resolve any issues you may have around 'unwanted jealousy' once you have experienced the sexual attentions of other men. Or it may be that any such liaisons will leave you feeling less than you can be.

Before setting foot on any path that is alien to, or at variance with, your personal social mores and beliefs you are best advised to carefully consider whether it is likely to enhance your life or destabilise it.

The fact you feel unable to discuss your new 'open relationship' with any of your close friends suggests that you are not entirely convinced by your h's reasoning. Do you fear that if you broach this subject, you'll meet with a 'shock horror' response or be laughed out of court?

Dahlen · 16/01/2013 10:38

This is so sad: I think if I asked him to stay with the kids while I did exactly what I wanted he would. The thing is, what excites me more is going off to sing in a choir all day or see a show, just having a shag on the side to make a point or get a bit of revenge wouldn't be my number one desire.

You shouldn't need an open relationship to make that happen. HE should be watching his own children to allow you to pursue your own interests (just as he has his) as a matter of course. The fact that he obviously hasn't been suggests that your relationship is far from as wonderful as you seem to think. Sad

pettykins · 16/01/2013 10:50

Thank you izzyizin for your long response which is reasoned and wise and the type of thing I need to hear. Of course I am not entirely convinced and telling my friends will most likely result in their shock and sadness which I can't cope with at the moment. Hence, this exercise of exposing myself anonymously to mumsnetters.
I have realised that this second honeymoon feeling may be temporary and I am trying to observe myself and my feelings as I feel my way in this.

I think you are right that I would feel I am devaluing myself in having extra marital relations just because I felt I had to even things out.
i do think we can find a place of emotional security as we are both trying to work out these questions but whether it will be strong enough is another question.

OP posts:
MajesticWhine · 16/01/2013 10:55

This is not an open relationship, its a one sided license to shag. He has been cheating on you and has managed to convince you that it's ok to carry on. He's played a blinder and you are afraid to lose him so you are going along with it. Face the fear, call time on it, you don't want this, better to lose him than this sham.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/01/2013 10:58

"I am trying to observe myself and my feelings as I feel my way in this. "

So why did you call it 'unwanted jealousy'? If you're observing your feelings you should be conscious that you are jealous & do not want him screwing around. Not trying to suppress your feelings as 'unwanted'.

TheFallenNinja · 16/01/2013 11:20

Oh my god, did he also try to sell you some magic beans. Open relationship means cheating, finding himself means getting his leg over with other women, deeply committed means he wants to have his cake and eat it.

carmenelectra · 16/01/2013 11:25

The worrying bit is the 'he convinced' me. So he had to talk you round?

Basically he has been having an open relationship for yrs while you thought you were in a monogamous, comitted one.

Of course open relationships can work if its what you both want. Though I do think its a bit like swinging in that I believe there is always one person in me that wants it a little bit more. Perhaps I'm wrong on that. Just experience in stories I've heard from couple of people in real life.

Noren · 16/01/2013 11:33

Nothing wrong with open relationships, but he has gone about it completely the wrong way (lying) and seems to be very selfish. It seems very unequal, this relationship of yours. Are you staying together? You're giving him time to go out and see other women, he should be giving you time for hobbies like going to sing in a choir (or to see other people if that's what you wanted, but my point is this is like his hobby). There are many ways to tackle jealousy (www.polyamory.org.uk/jealousy_clewis.html) but this relationship isn't starting in a very healthy way to begin with. Think carefully about what YOU want, because if you only really want monogamy there's a high chance you'll resent him.

dequoisagitil · 16/01/2013 11:36

You're still using the language of monogamy if you're talking about you potentially having a 'shag on the side'. An open relationship requires openness & honesty and for both partners to be happy about opening up the relationship. That's not what you've got. You've got a cheat who has unilaterally decided what kind of marriage you have, and you are sucking it up.

You have been sold a lemon by your dh.

carmenelectra · 16/01/2013 11:36

op it doesn't sound like you want an open relationship at all. Sounds like you feel like you have no choice if you don't agree.

If you agree I think what will happen is you won't really feel comfortable shagging around but he will(already does) so you will be sitting at home like a mug in you 'open relationship' while he continues what he's been doing for yrs. Only difference now is that he has a clear conscience and your permnission.

How can someone have a one sided open relationship? Isn't that called cheating?

Branleuse · 16/01/2013 11:50

Some people are just not wired for monogamy.

I could cope with an open relationship. I know polyamorous people.
I told my dp at one point that i was ok if he wanted to sleep with other people. There was one girl who he slept with a couple of times who is now actually one of my best friends. Its not weird at all. She is into swinging with her boyfriend. I know a few people who do. There is actually a whole other world out there.

We're not doing open relationship anymore as my dp couldnt cope with the idea of me doing it, so we just stopped altogether and went back to monogamy, which is fine for both of us too. We have a very loving, honest and communicative relationship though. It probably wouldnt work with everyone.

Just make sure you really are ok with it. I wouldnt be happy with all of a sudden finding out that hes been doing it behind your back though. That would be a big no no

Branleuse · 16/01/2013 11:52

in fact, id dump for that. Better after 15 years than 15 years and a day.

GirlsonFilm · 16/01/2013 12:29

I'm all for relationships taking whatever course they need to, but you need to ask yourself if will you be happy knowing he's off with a/some/several OW's whilst you're at home with the DC's. Something else to consider is that he may well fall for one of the OWs (if he hasn't already, hence the 'deep relationship'), and decides he wants a monogamous relationship with them so you'd get shown the door.

Reading your comments I don't think you want an open relationship, but want to keep your relationship with your DH. Think hard about what you want from your marriage and what you are prepared to put up with to keep the relationship with DH. You may decide that continuing the relationship on your OH's terms is too big a price to pay.

AnyFucker · 16/01/2013 13:02

OP, please find your backbone and tell this promiscuous adulterer that just because he fancies changing the terms of your marriage, you do not agree to it.

Tell him you consider your marriage to be over because it is no longer meeting your needs, and stop servicing him domestically and sexually.

if he wants to "find himself" between the legs of a succession of women, wish him luck and send him on his way.

BelaLugosisShed · 16/01/2013 13:07

This reply has been deleted

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izzyizin · 16/01/2013 13:11

Even if you intend to settle for being one party to a menage a trois, albeit the current trois does not share your home and may be replaced and/or additional numeraux may be added at any time by your h, it's probable that you will find yourself conflicted by jealousy.

It may be that you will torment yourself with thoughts of whether she is more interesting, intelligent, attractive, better in bed, has a superior body than yourself, and whether she has a lifestyle or other attributes that may tempt your h to leave you.

If you don't get to meet/speak with the trois who is the current shag flavour of the month/year, it could be that you'll be tempted to believe whatever hype your h tells you about her - and tell you about her he must because, of course, in a genuinely open relationship there can be no secrets.

Were to you meet the trois you may find your fears are unfounded and that, far from being the glamorous being of your imagination, the other object of his lust affections is a somewhat dumpy, frumpy plain and ordinary woman with a lifestyle to match.

Or you may find that he is sexually involved with a bunny boiler predatory female who has set herself up in competition with you with a view to becoming the second Mrs Kins, and who will stop at nothing to achieve her aims.

Frankly, unless you are emotionally robust, secure in yourself, and supremely happy in your own skin, this way madness lies there's no quicker way to become consumed by jealousy, self-doubt, and fear for the future of your family unit, than having a spouse/partner form a sexual alliance with another party.

MarilynValentine · 16/01/2013 13:45

You sound like a surrendered wife OP, deeply confused and repressed. You are willing to accept this because it means you won't lose him.

At the moment the hysterical bonding makes you feel truly connected to him. But all those moments you're sharing he has also had with countless other women. And one of the reasons he's being so intimate and emotional with you is because he is ECSTATIC - he's free of 'just you', he can fuck as many other women as he likes, fall in love with other women (that's what he means by 'deep friendship') - have adventures all over the place while you look after the kids and maintain the household.

You have been hoodwinked. Duped. You didn't want this before and it really sounds like you don't want it now.

You just don't want to lose him and the idea of breaking up the family and being single again is horrendous. So you are convincing yourself that it's all ok.

It's not. It's ok to be angry and hurt and let down.

The hysterical bonding will end and he'll be walking out the door to fuck some woman while you finish the washing-up in tears.

You are allowed to reject this.

AnyFucker · 16/01/2013 13:48

It is worth reminding you that condoms are not 100% effective in preventing 100% of all sexually transmitted diseases. Just a thought.

Whocansay · 16/01/2013 14:09

Your situation sounds horrific and I suspect you're still in shock. Why don't you suggest that you go away on your own at the weekend. Suggest to him that you may have sex with someone else (whether you do or would want to is another matter). See what his reaction is. I think that will be telling.

I would probably go and stay with my best friend for a couple of days and talk it out with her. I have no doubt she would tell me to ltb though.

You need some space to find out how you really feel about this.

Something else to consider - what do you think your kids would feel? Would it affect them? If you don't really want this, the tension for them will be horrible.