"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

UA you have had some good advice, far better than I could give but I did want to give you a (hug) and wish you well.

New I was also not allowed friends in the house, and had to go out or go in the garage to 'play'. If my bedroom was not immaculate Mum used to hit me with a wooden spoon (Dad was not around at the time due to his job). I used to cycle to my Nan's for some solace, but now see it was my Granddad above all that was the one who didn't tolerate Mum's behaviour. She used to say he was rubbish with children, but with hindsight I can see that he was just not an enabler to her.

keep talking on here UA, it helped me so much a few months ago, and made me get all my thoughts out of my head, as I needed validation of some sort that I wasnt just imagining the flashbacks

people here and on other threads helped so much

be kind to yourself and it is ok to want to have a slow easy day every now and then - it took me ages to stop feeling guilty about just sitting and looking out a window, which was actually a very peaceful thing for me to do

it is ok for you to be kind to you - sounds like you have put others first for a long timel in relationships or regarding upbringing. It's just time now to help you for a change.

I take small steps to comfort myself, in silly simple ways - setting a nice table for dinner, cooking something I would like, putting nice music on, taking my time in the evenings to just potter. It calms me, and reassures that our home is a place of peace.

Keep posting whenever you can - and great idea of yours to ring the helpline tomorrow. Clearly stuff is deciding to bubble up to the surface, and like PrincessFionne said, let it all come, dont be afraid, it is cleaning and cleansing for your mind to have to process it.

UA this is how children feel when people are 'bad' to them, they turn it in on themselves that they are unworthy and bad, or even evil to have this kind of treatment in life. I also wanted to find out I was adopted or would somehow be able to go to another family

Children that are loved and comforted in their distress are given worthyness and feel love and it fills them up. Your experience has left you possibly really disliking yourself or worse.

Use your inner voice to tell yourself kind things. If you hear it saying 'I should be working harder', 'I'm not worthy/deserving', or whatever your inner voice tells you, when you catch it saying things that do not help you, think of a kinder thing to say to yourself, keep doing it will change your self talk and it will help you to comfort and love yourself. ((big hugs for difficult times)) xx Fi

UA it is imperative that you feel safe now, and do things to protect yourself; it doesn't matter to us that you have name changed, really the least of your concerns right now. Its you that matters and your helping yourself however you can to get through, everyone understands that (and don't bother with the ones that don't!) ((more hugs)) xx Fi

UA...I have no words of advice to give you except to keep coming on here, you must not let this fester within you, there will always be someone on here to listen and hand hold and never judge.

It's not you who's bad, really it's not. I do wonder whether it's me sometimes...did I bring it on myself? But that is fading, largely because of this thread and the knowledge that other people have been through the same and look at them...all lovely, kind people...if they weren't they wouldn't give a flying fig.

Keep talking.

x

It seems to be another common denominator of being a child of toxic parents.

UA you know what I see on here whenever I visit, I see a pond covered in lotus flowers. I love lotus flowers, pure and beautiful. You know how lotus flowers grow, from deep down in the dark mud, they reach for the sun and open their petals to please our senses. Out of mud comes utter, breathtaking beauty.

It's not your mud but, like us, that's where your roots are. I don't see the roots, I see your petals and they are stunning. You are opening to the sun and that is a growth process and growth is painful but you have the courage and strength for it without a shadow of a doubt.

My warmest thoughts to all you lotus flowers.

It wasn't cleanliness in our house, so much as weird, OCD worries and foibles, like having to turn plugs off at the socket, not being allowed to bounce a ball against an outside wall with no windows, having to close all doors.

Did anyone else lack privacy? The airing cupboard was in my bedroom and people just used to come in - any attempt to make them use some kind of system or, you know, knock failed miserably, but I always thought that was just middle-class whingeing until my therapist had a complete cow over it and said, no, it really is shit for a teenager to have no privacy. Though it still feels like middle-class whingeing.

Hoppyscotch I would also say nothing and shred them. Also, fucking hell, I just saw this: "I had NO idea that it wasn't normal (or nice) for parents (mothers in my case) to call their children ungrateful." Fuck, I had no idea that wasn't normal or nice.

There it goes again - another thing I had thought was just normal. In my case it was my dad: "You should be more grateful." "You should try being more grateful." That, and how I should be more respectful.

Patches people who say "I'd love my mother to clean for me" imagine it being done in the way they would want! I think your home sounds perfect, btw.

Sparkly a belated reply. Yes, there were good times too and yes I think my parents genuinely didn't realise they were being shit. It has made it very hard to acknowledge the need for therapy (my therapist told me this week that I was "bursting at the seams", while I was still there trying to say I wasn't sure if I really had anything to complain about).

Pumpkin I think your DH really does need professional help. I'm sorry you are going through this.

Unfortunatlyanxious I'm so sorry these awful things happened to you and glad you are on the list for counselling. I would second the recommendation of looking at NAPAC, also Samaritans are on 116123 and are very good at listening. I do wonder if you may have PTSD, which I mentioned to someone else upthread as well. Your fears about being a bad person are very normal in people who have endured what you have, but are also unfounded. It's not your fault this happened to you. Don't ever apologise for namechanging, that's not something to be sorry for!

It's weird, I wrote down all these memories over the break and when the therapist was reading through them there were a couple of points were he kind of did an intake of breath and went "Ah shit," in reaction, and the things that made him do that were things I thought were super trivial. I don't know which way is up any more.

I would kill for a different family. I have had a birthday since I last posted; DF phoned me and then talked about himself for 15 minutes. I kind of zoned out and participated as an observer, not a participant, and I was just thinking: have you ever listened to yourself?

Am rambling sorry. Everything is suddenly bothering me at the moment, not managing to squash it down any more.

dont that is a beautiful analogy.

Fucking hell. I just found this page: outofthefog.net/Relationships/PaternalChildAbuse.html

See that list of examples? Just said yes to almost all of them. And there I was questioning the validity of how I felt. Feels really ugly to see it like that.

sorry to hear Jess although it can be overwhelming its good that you can't squash it down anymore lots of stages to go through, not least of which is the self-comforting and finding peace and quiet, in amongst the flashbacks, realisations, angers and sadnesses. Really good you found validity.

What a beautiful analogy dont - very touching x

Fi

I thought I was feeling better because I had stood up for myself but I am stuck in a horrible limbo right now
I am worried about what their next move is going to be! Its been 24 hours since I told them about my brother abusing me as a child and I have had no reply so I am no worried about what will happen

Can I just say to those that as a child wished they were adopted it isnt a relief to find out you are not biologically connected to these toxic and narc people infact its worse as these people supposedly wanted children so much that they "went through hell to get them" and then treated me like crap and messed up my head! Then when you trace your biological mother she is lovely but there are no feelings for her because she is a stranger and even worse you feel jealous of how close and happy your half brother and sister are to eachother and to her and that kills you even more

3ismylot I'm so sorry to hear this. That kind of limbo must be a hard place to be.

oh 3ismylot it is a childish wish only, one thats based on nothing other than being desperate to get out, or that somehow your real mother will come and sweep you away and rescue you from it all - unfortunately we know thats rarely the case the stuff of fairtytales, and so sad. Its hard but whats important is what happened you, not their reaction; you can't rely on their reaction being anything but dismissive or denial or minimising, or even nasty. Their reaction doesn't matter, but how you look after yourself does, its good that you have told them, but if they've been awful to you all your childhood not sure this will change anything, as awful as it is. take care xx Fi

Thanks PrincessFionne I know that I shouldnt be thinking about them and should concentrate on myself but I just cant help feel that the silence is a build up to something big

I understand the fairytale as I did used to wish that my real Mum would turn up and rescue me

I am feeling the need to make a big change to my life but not sure what but then I cant help having those old feelings of useless and thinking I cant do anything

dontfeedthetroll...I have been planning to have a tattoo put on my lower back for years, and am waiting to find someone with enough artistic skill to draw it perfectly for me. It shows a pair of hands in a cupping position (me) holding 3 lotus flowers (my dc)...the symbolism being that I am holding and protecting these 3 beautiful pure flowers which have grown out of murky, stagnant beginnings (my ex was pure evil but despite this they have grown into 3 beautiful people in their own rights). The hands also represent the fact that I have done what my own mother didn't do for me...that is nurture and protect.
Lotus flowers are a very powerful symbol.

jess...what sets my place apart from my mother's is that mine is a home, whereas hers is a house.

So...the latest in the toxic behaviour is that she is now ignoring me completely. I text her yesterday to ask how she was feeling and if her day had been any better (she said she was slowly on the mend) and she didn't even bother to reply. Nothing. Her game plan now is to force me into keep texting/calling until she deems it right to reply. If I don't (which I won't) she will call in a few days or weeks saying that for all I know she could have been dead, no one cares about her blah blah...SO much game playing. It is exhausting me.

I've just come back from my second failed driving test, so disappointed. Wish I could shake off the horrible feeling of never being good enough or just an utter failure at life. I'm angry today, perhaps if I wasn't crippled with self loathing and hate I would have more confidence in myself, actually believe good things happen to me. I know I'm an adult now and need to do things for myself, but that little voice is telling me 'how could someone like you think you could have a car. '
All I could think about coming home was dm and dsis ( if they knew id sat my test ) taking the piss out of me imagining what they'd say. They are taking over my life, still.

Aww thevery you are worthy of anything you set your heart on, and you will get. I know it is easy for me to say but with practise comes confidence and you will get there.

My mother called today. A friend of hers died late last night and she was crying. Mainly about how her friends are all leaving her. Nevermind that they are in their 70's and had cancer/leukaemia. I don't know how to deal with it tbh. I just don't have the strength to support her. She does have Dad so I am hoping I won't get lent on.

She also said that an Estate Agent called to put her house on the market. So after all of Christmas saying she wasn't going to put the house on the market and move up here she now is. I feel totally gutted.

FW

Think your narcissist mother was using you as supply again.

Have you got called display on your phone?. I would install that if you have not already got this service.

Not all that surprised either to read that she was making it all about her; don't think she was very upset for the deceased person at all. It was all about her again.

Re your Dad I would not feel too sorry for him as he has and continues her to enable her to the hilt. All toxic narcissistic mothers need a willing enabler to help them and your Dad fits the bill here nicely. He being weak acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life; he failed utterly to protect you fully from her as a child and still fails you as an adult.

Hopefully they won't sell their house anytime soon; market is pretty much stagnant at present.

Think your son is also very perceptive and wise beyond his years.

Thevery

Sorry to read about you failing your driving test again.

I would advise you to get back behind the wheel asap, it will give you more confidence. That is what happened with me, I just needed more time and confidence.

Muma...ALL the best people pass third time, you know! :)
Sorry you didn't pas this time, but don't let it get you down too much, get back in ASAP as Attila says.
X

Me me me - I'm a third timer!!!