"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

please try not to worry and enjoy your trip out, even it is 'only to Asda', but it sounds like it doesn't really matter where right now, but its big enough that you are going to any outting right now, so good for you! really good for you! Be ready to just ignore what 'people' say and not hear the rubbish. do your trip, get what you need and congralate yourself for doing it. I'm glad that your b/f has committed to supporting, really good. what a difference a day makes.

Let us know how you get on - even if you do bump into them, make whatever excuses you need to get the baby back or appt, or whatever but stay out of their way and concentrate on you feeling good being out, thats far more important now isn't it? take care.

sorry for no namecheck - this ^ for Choc

sorry for tough times for you bedtime that does sound rough but I am glad you've had enough of it, you see it for what it is and it sounds pretty ugly! good that you have others in your family that would be understanding and probably validate what you feel then?

Good luck with your trip to Asda Choc, you will feel so pleased with yourself when you get home with your stuff, glad that your bf is supporting you, it's always easier when someone's got your back

That sounds hard bedtime, you sound like you have put up with a lot to try and keep a relationship with your sister, and it must be hard if she still lives at home. I am still in contact with DB, he still is in contact with our mother, but we just don't discuss her. We did have an initial chat, both explaining our reasons for C/NC and then agreed to respect each others position and not discuss.

Fi I seem to forget that I don't have to reply at all to texts from her, I think I must still be caught up in the fog. You're right of course, if it was anyone else I'd ignore, but have been well trained over the past four decades! I sent a reply saying we were busy then too and almost immediately got another text, which I haven't even read yet, I hate that she can reduce me to this pathetic, scared child at the press of a few buttons

Have just read the last text, not as bad as I thought it would be, but still made me cross. 'When can I see them then. I know they want to see me.'

I am not answering it.

I agree that's the best response, Incog.

Thanks hotdamn, this is hard isn't it? They just seem to know which buttons to press to get to you! I need to remember that I can't change her behaviour, just how I react to it.

Thanks.

A lot of the time I don't feel validated in my opinions.
It makes me very angry when young sister Starts joining in with my mum. She even talks like mum.
Mum doesn't see her brother much, think last time was 2 years ago, he's only one left on her side. I don't see him, he doesn't want to be involved with us. My cousin got married and we never got an invite and apparntley it was because he was worried him and mum would have an argument at the wedding .

Don't know about any of you but do any of your mums have a problem with your dads/ partners side. She fell out with dads side and Apparantley told him he couldn't see his mum then he wasn't aloud to see his sister . I think he saw them in secret, this didnt happen until we weRe about 11 as I used to see my gran a bit before that. After that I didn't see her much at all.
Mum and dad are divorced now but when she got new partners the same pattern happened. Thy weren't aloud to see parents after a while.

I think its the lack of validation bedtime thats so crippling, and so enabling when finding places like this where you get it, finally!

I really enjoyed my ExH family, although DPs separated, all could get on and were just relaxed and respected boundaries and contributed just generally speaking everyone made an effort to the joint experience of all. Last Ex pretty dysfunctional family, lots of back stabbing, ranting on about ptrn of years ago, undermining each other and difficult to avoid being caught in the middle of long standing rows, and quite inappropriate behaviour too. Tis a minefield and too easy for everyone to try to pass the buck frankly to the nearest one prepared to take it!

Well I went Asda really didn't like it kept on being on edge I didn't take my time just got what I needed then went straight home.I hate the fact that I was scared to go out incase I bump into them bt there still affecting me when there out of my life :-(

yay!!!! great news! You didn't like it, but you did it anyway Choc , v. impressed!

They are not out of your life until you have mentally 'put' them out. Which means ignoring them and not caring or worrying about their latest set of stories nasty lies . Ignore it all and be the person you want to get back to being.

Yeah that is what I have to do..its going to be hard but I have no choice I don't want my baby being brought up around arguments and crap n cant keep on bringing me down I have to be the mum I always wanted.

choc well done! You did it!

Now you need to do it again - could you manage going out for a short trip today? It's like getting into a cold sea - you need to keep going/jumping in to learn that you CAN do it. And you CAN because you proved that to yourself yesterday.

Glad that the bf is being more supportive. Keep reminding yourself that you & your baby are the most important people, nobody else's needs/feelings even come close right now.

Good luck - let us know if you manage to get out today, or even tomorrow if you want to lie low for a bit.

IncogKNEEto

In answer to your earlier question I think your mother is using your 12 year old to get back at you. She is being very manipulative here contacting her when she cannot get a hold of you on the phone. 12 year old is too yoiung to realise she is too being manipulated.

Toxic parents like your mother make for being toxic grandparents as well; its still all about her and what she wants. No mention of any apology to you for her behaviours. Supposedly "deprieving" your DD of someone like that anyway in her life will do her a big favour.

(My ILs are shite both as parents to their two now grown up offspring and as grandparents to boot).

And if your mother keeps phoning you, block her number!. NC means that - no contact in any form.

All the above is all too easy for me to say but she has really trained you well to respond to her hence your own feelings of guilt (FOG is a legacy that such toxic people leave their now adult children) and I think you are still caught up in the FOG. Your mother still pushes any boundaries you care to set and you broke a boundary of your own when out of guilt you took the children to see your mother at Christmas time. That was probably in hindsight not one of your better ideas as it gave her a way in.

Do you think your mother feels guilty about how you were treated in your childhood, I would state that she does not.

Not feelings too good today I feel a little drained..I kno I have to pass this then things will get better had people knocking at my door at 12 lastnight can only b my parents. :-(

Hi everyone

Well, the illness thing continues. She did text me out of the blue to tell me she was feeling a bit better as she had finally been given some medication so I text her several times yesterday and this morning to check she was still feeling better...no reply. I tried ringing...it said her mobile was switched off. So I rang her home phone and she answered, said her mobile was broken, in pieces and she was waiting for my not-so-dear brother to come around and fix it...then she cut the conversation short, said she needed to go and she would call me back in a few minutes. That was 2 hours ago and haven't heard from her. Now...I have a problem with this because a) if her phone was broken why didn't she call me from her landline to tell me that, knowing I would be worrying and b) the only way I can see that her mobile would be in pieces is if she threw it in temper, which at the age of 80 something is pathetic and ridiculous and brings about feelings from my childhood (Like when she threw my plant at the wall because I got her birthday wrong).

It's having a profound effect on me this time around, and I don't know why. I feel very down, and low. She hasn't once asked how I am, or the dc are. Why can I just not do this? Not contact her, not care? Not feel guilty?

x

Choco your parents were knocking on your door at midnight??????

My lord your parents came midnight?!

Yep I didn't go.very respectable ov them isn't it.I was nursing my 14 week old baby in my bedroom.They make me want to screeeem.

Patches I think your mum is enjoying fucking you about and playing you, like a nasty little child, because you care. How about sending her a text to her landline (so it'll be read in a weird disembodied voice and freak her out ) saying "You know where I am - I'll leave it to you to call when you want to." ?

Choc my mum behaved like a wretch when my DD was born too and it made me feel so furious and sad that she would do so when I most needed support. I feel so cross for you. You're doing brilliantly. Just wish I could come and be your mum and look after you and take you to Asda!

U know I'd hate for when my boy grew up to feel the way I do about my parents its awful. I feel a wreck :-(

You did well to ignore them last night, but IME it does take a lot of getting use to doing that, so try not to be hard on yourself, it did make me feel very bad for a while and 'a wreck'.

You carried on feeding your boy, and are trying to make life better for him by recognising their behaviours - big step to making his life different to yours.

Can't believe they would just turn up on your door at 12 o/c at night, and worse still expect someone to answer! Only an emergency would justify this, but then their 'emergencies' are just on another planet really. Within days of sharing the news with mine that my marriage was over (I was devastated, wreck, trying to know what to do next, you get the picture), she turned up at some ridiculous hour of the night, saying she'd left my F! I had to take her in for the night. Ran around setting everything up for her, being supportive, worried, weirded out by it all, and then she just up and went home again?!?!?! but when I called round (in daylight, at an agreed time) to let them know my marriage was over, she simply said, 'oh well, didn't realise anything was wrong' not discussed again.

I was just as upset by all that as for my marriage,etc, when in fact they should have been loving and tried to support, help me, not turn it into being about them again, like yours are doing. Noone turns up on someones door late at night anyway, but when you have a new baby?!!!!

Stick with it Choc you're doing good; plan some enjoyable stuff for your family (YOU, baby and bf) and have some good times together. Keep going x

love your idea peacock leaving a text message on landline - is there something particular about those words 'i'll leave you to call' - those were my last words after a huge 'discussion' (me having walked miles with new baby to try to resolve latest huff episode, being ignored for some perceived misdoing, and finally said she needed to take responsibility for the relationship too, instead of expecting me to do all the work and take responsibility so she can blame me if its not right for her - all the while she's lying in bed 'ill' but couldn't explain how - I'm stood up trying to feed crying baby, pacing to and fro desperately searching for how to put it right!? She never called. Told me I'd rejected her by having the baby - its very sad, but I realised there's nothing I could do about it and I couldn't be her mother any more as it was tearing me in two learning to be a mother myself aswell to very poorly baby.

I hate that she pressured me to be supporting her when I was desperate for help and asked her for that, she brought friends of hers over to visit and made lunch (which I'd suggested I'd really appreciate and a way of us doing something together whilst I was so floored with everything). She talked to her friends, told me the baby needed changing and questioned the way I was managing that, told me I was better off bottle feeding and why was I so 'determined' and 'stubborn' about bf. She made me sandwiches with ingredients I'd never liked so I couldn't eat them, I was starving, tired and bf and she then walzed out and left me a huge mess to clear up in the kitchen. I just sat down and cried then ate the slices of bread without the fillings for 'my lunch' - pah.

Stay away from them Choc its seems impossible for them to cheer us up, make us feel better about ourselves, support us, or anything positive, basically 'give'

Oh when I came home from hospital baby wasn't latching on correctly and my milk wasn't threw.They was telling me to giv my baby a bottle because he was 'starving!' And a bottle never did m any harm! My milk came through and he is has doubled his birth weight.

Sorry to hear about your marriage..I know what u mean about support its always was one sided :-(