"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

Its too easy to say ignore, but a learning to reject everything they say as their twisted bias, without your best interests at heart. this is what is so difficult to understand, confusing and painful, why would they? thats what happens again and again. I cannot trust mine with any information atall, but it took me endless years of trusting them and having that trust continually abused before I really 'got it' - bit slow on the uptake I reckon ;)

choc I think your hv's advice is good - could she arrange for you to see a counsellor? Even if there are no instant solutions, just to have somebody listening while you verbalise about the past can be very very helpful. You will be believed, I promise, and not judged.

If you're having trouble getting put of the house, have you thought about contacting the charity HomeStart? Your hv can arrange this or you can self-refer. Then you can have an experienced mother coming into your home once a week to give a hand, help you get out, even just chat if that's what you want. Got to be worth a try.

Let us know how you get on - you are NOT alone I promise you! x

I rang my hv again today she is goin to arrange for A counciler.My bf said today that I am the same as my parents that I act jus like them that is why his freinds and family dont like me.How can I change this?

That doesn't sound very supportive behaviour from your bf.

Can you ask him to be more specific i.e. give solid examples of what he actually means by you 'acting just like them'? Having been treated badly by your parents I find it hard to believe that you would 'act just like them'.

You are vulnerable at the moment - you need support, help, encouragement, somebody who can back up your choices for your child as being the right ones - not somebody who criticises and belittles your behaviour. He is just reinforcing the negative behaviour & attitudes of your parents by the sound of it - completely unhelpful.

Hope you get to see a counsellor soon.

good news that you have arrangements in place to talk to a counsellor, its a really good start - make sure that you feel comfortable with him/her when you meet and that are really getting something from the sessions, ask for a different one if not.

at bf when you have new baby and such family difficulties to manage.

lots of support available from lovely people that understand on here. keep posting Choc

Welcome chocolate
Sorry you are having such a rough time of it, especially with a newbaby.
Your do should be supporting you through this, his behaviour will not be helping you.
Talk to him about the way they make you feel, that should stop his insults.
I get frustrated with my dh in regards to him walked over by pil, but I know it isn't his fault he was born into that family so I support him in any way possible.

Only you can decide on what contact or how much contact to have.
New births are always a source of the toxics worsening behaviour as they like to take a hold when you are at your most vulnerable.
Try to enjoy being a new mum for now, ignore as much as you can.
congratulations

Why do I have theses sad feelings ov loss when my parents have brought me nothing but misserie.I know that my relationship with them is not ryt.I only live round the corner from them so I now worry about bumping into them and walking past them

Am so sorry to hear how upset you are. The good thing is that help is on it's way - just read what FairyFi said re: counselling and I agree strongly with that.

Also, toxic people act up around the birth of a new baby as they are momentarily knocked out of the spotlight and they struggle with that.

It is perfectly normal to have feelings of loss, even over painful, negative relationships. It will take time to re-adjust and come to terms with the past and the possibility of a future that doesn't include them. Don't rush, don't let anybody else make the decisions for you. You and your baby are the most important things now - simple as! Good luck, and please keep posting - there is a lot of support for you here. x

its good that you recognise your relationship with your parents is not right Choc but as a child you love (?) [look to, bond with, and attach] to your parents, this is a difficult thing to sever.

Sometimes circumstances make it easier (like babies and needing to put them and yourself first suddenly after years of putting parents first). Other times an event will cause the blow out, sometimes a small thing that just pushes you over the edge with them. Sounds like you've really had enough tho take care

Also, toxic people act up around the birth of a new baby as they are momentarily knocked out of the spotlight and they struggle with that. perfect didn't realise that was standard! makes sense completely tho - unbeleeeeevable!

choc that was a really cruel thing for your boyfriend to say to you. Does he routinely put you down like that?

Well he says he has had enuff of me being upset by my parents.Spoke to him before and told him how I really feel and he listened bt he does find it hard that I can't just 'forget about it' I wish I could.He says he will support me more.

Hi all,

Sorry, I am more of a lurker than a poster, and haven't replied to anyone else's posts, just can't add anything as insightful or helpful as others above.

I am still struggling with my (lack of) relationship with my mother. I have been NC since the end of October and I feel so much, calmer and relaxed, even happy at times!

I did take the DC over to see her on the 27th Dec, but this was due to guilt over depriving the Dc of a grandmother, I find this especially hard as I (and DC) have been NC with MIL for about 18 months as well.

She has just text me asking if the dc can go over to hers a week on Saturday, and that they can even stay the night if they want to, and that she will come and collect them on the bus, and I don't know what to do

She still phones dd1 (who is 12) on her mobile occasionally and I feel in a really difficult position, and don't know whether to stop contact between them or not?

DD1 already has plans to see her Dad next weekend, so I could just text back, saying we already have plans, but for some reason, unknown to me, feel guilty about this! In an ideal world I and the dc would all be NC, and she would just go away.

Sorry to be so me me me, I was doing so well, hadn't even thought about her for days, but then I get a text, and I feel sick, anxious, worried and annoyed all at once. She has also text DD1 to ask if she's got a bad signal as she tried to phone her and it went to voicemail (this was within about 10 minutes of me not answering her text) I feel got at and that she is using DD, but what if it is me that is wrong?

Spot on notquiteperfect. I've already written in my original post about my father's behaviour around the time of DD4's birth. Coincidence? Not likely!!

Perfect I agree, that is spot on, although I find my mother manages to amke almost any 'big' or special occasion all about her, and how badly everyone treats her...

Choco welcome, I'm sorry that you have to be here, but I have found this thread a lifeline and a real source of comfort, validation and helpful advice.

I find my mother manages to amke almost any 'big' or special occasion all about her, and how badly everyone treats her...

That is an excellent description of my own mother, Incogkneeto. Made me chuckle.

I often wonder if my MIL is a secret bigamist because she clearly has a lot of children on this board... :)

In all seriousness it is unreal how close the 'script' is for these people, this thread is such an eye opener. Horrible to see how common this is and perversely good to know you're not alone.

Yes Hotdamn, since realising that (when my db got married and the main (only with her) topic of conversation and conflict was the fact that my mother had been asked to move rooms.

We were staying in a beautiful country cottages, db and dsil had booked the whole place for both sides of the family to stay for the whole week, it was amazing and it was almost ruined before it was started because the wedding was a surprise event and all my mother blathered on about was how unfair it was that just because she was on her own it meant that she was pushed around and no-one cared about her feelings...yawn

I try to see the humour in the pettiness, otherwise I'll go insane...

Have just sent a text reply 'We already have plans.' Does that sound rude to you? Would rather have not had the text in the first place, have no desire to reply...but feel too rude to totally ignore. Stupid but already over-analysing it

Oh no, phone just beeped with an incoming message, wish she'd leave me alone.

'What about the next weekend then the 9th?' Arrggh.

Thank u all today.I'm hoping that I can sleep tonight knowing that it is possible to offload on here and not feel like I'm goin crackers and knowing I can talk about things on here :-)

if you not happy for it, might be best to say, he can't come for sleepovers. My dbro, although never went NC he still always saw them, with his DC, but he never let them stay over until they were over 10 I think, and then they didn't really want to for more than the occasional night and then it stopped. I guess it depends if you can manage any potential conflict. I know that mine drove a wedge between them and their mother. She was always texting phoning siding with them against their mother and she was right in the middle of the mess when they separated and sadly divorced. A big mess and she was at the centre of the argument between them.

Say you'll think about it, while you think about it Incog no rush to reply now, or atall? - as you are NC with her? Do others maintain contact for the GC?

Worried your bf being a bit tough on you choco - how can have had enuff of you being upset; he should be very concerned that you are upset, do you think? This is your issue and why does it annoy it (sorry, thats how it sounds). take care

ha ha FMNots ! Its a bit weird all these similarities! altho it makes absolute sense too

thats good to hear Choco you are welcome to keep coming and offloading, and excellent news that you not feeling 'crackers' Really hope you and your baby have good sleep tonight. Sweet dreams

FI I no it is a bit harsh he should be helping me.He says he going to support me more.I am hoping I'm going out tomo even if its only to Asda to get few bits but I'm anxious at just the thought were I live every1 knows my parents so I worry about what stories they have made up.They have done it before it really upsets me that I'm scared to go out but that's the first step off moving on.I just hope I dont bump into them.

Thanks for all the kind messages.

Life still isn't easy. Had a big fall out with mum and younger sister last week and I'm beginning to think that I've had enough of seeing/ seaming to her . She lies and manipulates every conversation. Anything you say she twists, if she's in the wrong she wont take responsibility and won't even apologise she just manages to turn it all round on to me and then I end up getting the blame and her trying to make me feel guilty. I've had enough of her doing this all the time then she lies to younger sister about what' gone on and then younger sister has a go at me and tells me I'm horrible and joins in with the only word I can think of is bullying me like mum does. Mum is then the victim and I'm told how wonderful she is and the best mum in the world. It makes me angry that my sister treats me like shit when it's not even me. So anyway I've basically had enough.

I don't see a way of solving this situation as I love sister but she's thinks mum is fantastic and doesnt see anything, which makes me think is it my fault or am I going loopy but then I remember everyone who doesn't speak to her etc in the family. It gets to me how my sister never has any understanding of my side. Mums always right. It's never her. I get really annoyed that I've been the loving genuine ones, honest no liar and then my sister doesn't care about my side at all. Or my pain. No its always whose the victim and me and older sister in wrong. I don't think everyone else in family can all be the nasty ones .