"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's January 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">original thread here</a> (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1650915-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

FWIW 2ndhandRose I believe you have absolutely done the right thing, and need to battle away the guilt by telling it this was not a one-off, but years of her treating you in this thoughtless and unloving way. she has obviously caused you years of strife, and you come to this point, unsurprisingly - try to wash away the guilt, it is not your friend here and has no place here. You acted to protect yourself from the pain of being with her. I gave up waiting for any acts or professing of 'love', as it just couldn't be seen and was certainly never heard (actions speak way way louder than words anyway, and love is an action that people can see and feel and so is hate). I hope you feel stronger from your actions and have resolve to keep protecting yourself.

The PTSD livid memories that you mention corestrength I had meant to ask you what these techniques were that you accessed? Sorry, sad that you have relived these memories.

.. and captchaos keep lurkin, very welcome when you feel ready

Fi

Advice for a new poster on this thread please...

Background-a few years ago I had a lightbulb moment that my mum has narc tendencies, and since having a baby myself, memories/things from my own childhood keep bubbling up to the surface.

It's the typical story, no-one outside the family home would believe me.

I've reached a point where I'm maybe setting limits better with her, and don't wish to go nc. I also don't see any point in having the frank discussion that seems to be suggested in this thread's opening post. If I buy Susan Forward's book, or any other, is that what they suggest? What I want is to sort things out in my head and move forward, it ideally without talking to her about it. Just behaving differently or whatever, but no discussions. Any advice?

Susan Forward's book, and others, don't give hard and fast rules. They do give examples of narc behaviour so you can identify it and put better boundaries in place. The more you recognise, the more you can protect yourself against.

You're right that there's no point in discussing it, but some narcs have well-developed antennae for when they're being managed, and may try to provoke a reaction. Again, the more you recognise...etc.

And even if a book did advise you to go nc, it's still up to you to do what feels right. Lots of help on here. The first book I read is 'Trapped in the Mirror' by Susan Colomb. A bit OTT in places but it clarified lots of things for me.

Welcome, by the way

Thanks fresh, I feel I'd bensuggestions.rom doing something but not sure if thats counselling or a diy approach. I appreciate any sugges

No idea what happened there... That should be: I feel I'd benefit from doing something but not sure if that's counseling or a diy approach. I appreciate any suggestions.

Orchidee - I think you have to do what feels comfortable for you. There isn't a formula, and reading and therapy/counselling aren't mutually exclusive. Personally, I felt that short-term CBT type counselling wasn't going to help me as my own issues were deep-seated. The very act of thinking through what you want can be therapeutic in itself as it gets you in touch with your needs rather than your mother's!

If you want some short-term managing strategies for specific things she does, this is probably the place to ask as we've all learnt some great ways of keeping boundaries in place. If you want to understand the dynamic in more depth so you can build resilience, I'd do some reading first and then see if that leads you towards seeking some external help or not.

I'm tentatively poking my head into the thread...

Over the past few months I've become increasingly aware of how messed up my mother is towards me, and it's making me increasingly angry. She is extremely emotionally needy. She infantalises me - patronising me, including in fornt of my own friends and my partner - in order, I believe, to try and make me feel like I am still a child. She is forever trying to convince me that I need her and that I "wouldn't cope" without her, which is not true. She is also queen of martyring herself - at 17 when crying and admitting my depression to her, she said "What have I done to make you so sad?". Everything revolves around her. My sister and I are expected to jump at her call; everything is an obligation, she never asks, and if you can't/don't do what she wants she'll try to guilt trip you into it, no matter what the reason is.

DP and I are getting married in August and I'm trying to start asserting myself to stop her from doing this but it's really tough going. Beacause of this, if I'm talking to someone and I feel patronised I get disproportionately upset and frustrated, even if the person was doing no such thing. My dad was always very dismissive of me, he felt my feelings didn't matter, so I have the same extreme reaction to feeling dismissed and can project that too. I feel like with everyone I meet I'm trying desperately to please them because with my mum, if I don't she makes me feel like I'm a terrible person (when really I just dont have time to paint her toenails for her ) and with my dad, I'm trying to please him so that he validates me. Actually I gave up on my dad many years ago, but that's still ingrained into me - I constantly seek validation from others and feel like I'm not good enough without that assertation, because that's how I felt as a child.

I feel like I'm just at the beginning of trying to unpick this whole mess so hopefully being here will help. It's just impacted me so negatively in how I deal with life. I am normally a confident, assertive person with a positive outlook and self-confidence, but tiny things can take me straight back to childhood and mean my reactions to things are skewed.

I've realised that I grew up feeling constantly not good enough and trying desperately to please my parents (mostly failing) - to please my mother by making her feel needed, to please my father and be 'right' for him if could. Now, I still struggle with feeling not good enough and like everyone is just tolerating me, like my dad did.

Hoping someone has some advice for me but mostly I'm just happy to be here and to be working towards untangling myself from this mess I'm thinking of having CBT - does anyone know if that migth work for me...?

Hello, by the way!

hello sunshine&freedome what lovely optimistic words! and that you are 'happy to be here'. I know CBT was mentioned ^ thread by fresh - who also talked about various approaches to tackle the different sides of this struggle.

I hope you find lots of info and support here. welcome

Hi sunshineandfreedom. I recognise so well some of what you describe, especially the disproportionate response to others when you feel criticised or patronised. I used to do this because it was easier than directing anger where it should have gone (because (a) that was too scary and (b) it wouldn't have done any good).

It's a mess, isn't it? Personally I think CBT won't do the trick on a permanent basis. I think the situation we're in can throw up some quite big things, starting with grieving properly for not having the childhood we should have had. To start with though, you can try to put some boundaries in place. I found it helpful to think of a person I knew who was very 'sorted' and imagine how they would react if someone treated them as my mum treated me.

Hold on to your confidence and assertion, and revel in it as it means there's part of you that hasn't been stamped on. The child in you needs to catch up, and for that to happen she needs nurturing. Start with small steps and things will become clearer. Is your DP supportive?

hi all just found this thread and am hoping to join for some advice. I'm lucky and had a relative normal and good childhood, but unfortunately dh did not, and that's where I'm looking for advice.
a bit of background dh has told me bits about his childhood and basically his parents were abusive emotionally, always putting him down telling him he was worthless. they were physically abusive and neglecting. dh never had much as a child but they always managed to go out drinking and to bingo. I have been told how dutiful dh was waiting for his mum outside bingo to walk her home, but the reality was he was hopeing she might have some thing for him as bingo came before food. he didnt get much any chritmas presents from the age of 12 unrolled after he met me at 19, them he had a shirt. ( it had been brought Hu a friend of dh mum for her son and didn't fit him ). dh tells of being beaten by hisum and dad when young. friends have told how they all chipped together for a cake and party one year for his brithday as he never had anything. he has tryed confronting then about his childhood and gets the denial. what he is saying is lies . he has fallen out with them and didn't talk to them for a year after on Christmas they didn't get the dc's anything as they weren't seeing them Christmas day and didn't feel they needed to and spent all their money going out instead. luckly dc's were little then and didn't notice.
well fast forward to now dh's dad passed away last year from cancer he had been unwell for about a year but it was less than 2 weeks from diagnose to death. on his dads side he mellowed with age went out less and became a better father being supportive and caring. well after he passed away dh mum stayed with us we helped her sort put finances as she didn't have a clue. then her brother passed away not long after so she had a tough year. he brother left het some money and this is where the probles come from. we are struggling I work dh is unemployed ( made redundant and no luck getting a new job ) dh has asked to borrow money yesterday only £10/£20 and she said she couldn't as she doesn't have much money telling us she only gets x when we know different plus all the money in bank from her brother. u can see dh's point of view as he sold his bike to pay for christams presents when she could have helped but watched us struggle. she then phoned last night after argument with dh telling dc's that she won't be seeing them again, so upset dc's go over to see her. she tells them she can't do it anymore she doesn't have money and tells them we owed dh dad 2000 and his uncle 1000 not that I see what that has to do with her money, but its not our falt they passed away before we had a chance to pay it all back. I understand its her money and what she chooses to do with it is up to her ,but dh just gets anoyed by her selfishness. I just understand that she is q very selfish woman and if I don't expect anything then when I don't get it I'm not disapointed.
any advice on how to support dh he is saying he doesn't want to see her and her the same, but without dh she won't have anyone but her friends ( who she does seem to think more off mind). and with dh having lost his dad I don't feel he is ready to lose his mum aswell. when angery dh says things he later regrets. the dc's are upset and want me to try sort things between them and I really don't know what to do. if it wasn't for the dc's being upset I would just support dh, but since there grandad died they have become closer with their nan and don't know of the harness dh had in childhood so are upset by this. any advice would be helpful thanks

orchidee re: your question on whether it is necessary to have a showdown. No, it isn't. In the sense that such a showdown will not change the narc parent in any way. The usefulness of having such a confrontation, IMO, is as an act in which the adult child asserts independence and voices his or her feelings. In other words, if it is beneficial for you, do it, but if you feel you can achieve emotional detachment without a confrontation, more power to you!

foxy

The first question I would ask here is how old are your DC?.

Your DH has every right to cut contact with his mother if he wants to; she has and continues to utterly fail him as a parent. If she has treated him so abysmally she does not deserve to have him in her life at all.

orchidee

You may find the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers helpful. That amongst many things talks about low contact and no contact.

You did not make your mother this way, her own birth family unleashed that lot of damage onto her.

To my mind though it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist (I have N ILs) because to them the only opinion that matters is their own.

Also what HOTDAMN wrote earlier in its entireity.

dc's are 16, 15, 13, 9 and 5. and it is mostly because off them I'm unsure what to do? I supported dh when he broke contact for a year and decided to change his surname and 3 of the dc,s makes then it just the kids reactions I know she is playing the sympathy card with them. trying to make out the dh is in the wrong .

I'm dil like you Foxy, my dh has narc ils which i have had to cut contact with & dcs too as mil & fil were affecting my dc with their behaviour aswell as insulting them & treating my dh like crap infront of them.

I made the decision to go nc, dh wasn't happy about, but he has realised i won't put up with them around our dc any longer.

Your dh is doing what is right for him, do you really want mil in your lifes again? Really?
Support him in whatever he feels is best.
In regards to the children i would go with what you feel is best, the eldest one is possibly old enough to decide on whether she wants to see her nanna or not but keep the young ones protected as much as you can as she doesn't sound like a very positive influence to children.

well dc,s 1 and 3 have been to see nan this evening who isn't that upset and would like to borrow a saw. obviously doesn't realise she has upset dh again. I suppose as long as older dc's are happy to visit nan and she doesn't say too much to upset them i'll just look after dh.
thanks all xxx

Smiling wryly at those saying there's nothing theoretically stopping people from going NC: I live on the same bus route into town as my parents and don't drive! Not about to move, as we live in a lovely village (they don't live in the same one) and have a great social/support network here - not going to lose that, no way.

Right now I do a sort of limited/minimal contact. It could be better/worse.

Sunshine I'm the same except my mum is the one who dismisses my feelings (still does it) and I know what you mean about seeking validation and tiny things sending you back to childhood.

orchidee confrontation can do a lot of harm if you don't get the response you want. My best advice is to read some of the recommended books; talk to others in the same boat; and seriously consider therapy because that can help sort things out in your head and learn to behave differently.

MomeRaths I have the same fear about people not liking me, thinking I'm on borrowed time with everyone, etc. I'm sorry you are feeling so rough right now and I'm sorry if the link has made you feel cruddy.

Bedtime1 I'm sorry to hear about what's happened with your sister; it's so unfair. I'm sorry, too, that you feel so low. Just remember it's not your decision whether he should be in a relationship with you, that's up to him. Please try to recognise the way you feel about your relationship as a resulting effect of what you have suffered and not an objective truth.

You're not pathetic, FYI.

PrincessFi that's so interesting about the idea of the central lie. My therapist said you don't realise it's all wrong at the time because it's like taking the evolutionary step of moving onto land and only then looking back and comparing the land with the water.

SecondhandRose sorry to hear about what you're going through. Do you think your counsellor's approach is the right one?

Patches that's an awful memory to have, I'm so sorry.

OnwardBound I like the concept of therapists 're-parenting' and kind of hope that might be something I can get from mine (have only just started in Dec).

The link helped to provide validation iyswim? To see a lot of my issues are a result of my upbringing.

Going no contact can be hard. There was a lot of fear, obligation and guilt. Luckily I never run the risk of bumping into Dad. Thank God, it would terrify me. He's such an angry man. My life is easier now I no longer see him.

onward I wondered if you minded sharing whether this was a specific type of therapy that you had - but onl an ask if you would mind sharing that, as I wouldnon't expect you to necessarily be happy to, which I'd understand of couse. Its sounded brilliant and I didnt know such a thing existed. Fi

Hi all so sorry to see more people in need of this thread
Also reading posts makes you realise just how much we all went through as kids and its heartbreaking

Well its been 8 days since I last emailed my parents and told them about my Brother abusing me and I have recieved nothing, no emails, no phonecalls and no visits so I guess that shows how much they care! I expect I am either being called a liar or they are ignoring it and brushing it under the carpet!

One thing is for sure though and that is that I am definately going NC with them and my Brother and even these last few weeks without them has felt better, I realised just how on edge I used to be waiting for her to turn up (most days without warning!)
I am seeing the doctor tomorrow and going to ask for a referral to some counselling as I just cant afford to go private at the moment but know I need someone to help me work through things.

Fi I don't think that the therapy onward mentioned has a name. She says herself it was a long slow process with a kind therapist, and it was the same for me. A good therapist will provide their client with a safe place, where they're heard, where they are treated as a person with the right to live their life as they choose, and where they're helped to understand how early influences affect them now and how to change them if they're not helpful. Sorry, that was a very inelegant sentence but it can't be expressed in a word or a phrase. For some of us there is no substitute for the long, slow, sometimes painful but ultimately life saving process of therapy.

And it took years to admit that, by the way, during which time I tried very hard to find something external to mend myself with. Without wishing to sound like a Hallmark card, in the end the cure came from within me - it just needed someone else's help to find it.

Dear me, I sound like a soap opera. I'll get my coat.

yes jess that does explain the sense of normality a kid gets from growing up with it without anything to actually measure it against (water - land), but the central lie was something new to me, but like most things I knew it to be true deep down, as the central lie was the thing that froze me to inaction, the thing that stopped me going NC - it was the threat of the damage 'I would do to them [her] which would be my fault and everyone would blame me for, the guilt hinge (like saying if you do that I will commit suicide like the awful instance of the poster recently). Mine was that NC would result in NB, but it actually did (from what I heard at a distance filtered out to me), but I knew I had to be strong enough to not take the responsibility for that that she would have tried to give me to me directly or to any that would listen! Fi

I have read some of the posts on this thread, and had several epiphanies. Although what happened to me wasn't as extreme as has happened to some of you, so please forgive me for being self-indulgent.

I have known for a long time that my mother wasn't like other people's. Normal mothers don't have golden children that they spoil, while leaving the other one high and dry. My DB is the golden child, the running joke is that he hates the summertime as he has to get up so early because the sun shines out of his ass, except it isn't funny. I would come home with cups and certificates which were left on the side, DB would come home with a good mark on a piece of work and it was shown to everyone as an example of just how wonderful and clever and perfect he was. I gave up on school aged about 13, not only did would it have made no difference if I had been made president of the universe, but I was being viciously bullied at school, so stopped trying. Being bullied was apparently my fault as well, because I am a miserable little bitch. (according to mother)

My DF had the temerity to leave when I was 6yo. It was my fault he left (ATM), if I hadn't been such a difficult child, he would have stayed. She stopped any form of contact, letters and cards were returned unopened, because she had done such a good hatchet job with my DB, that DF sending letters, cards or trying to see him at school would have made her a liar, and the only liar was me.(ATM)

I spent years believing that this was all I was worth. My DGP's were my oasis, they seemed to value me.

Fast forward a few years, 2 seriously abusive relationships later, with 2DS, my GP's died. Shortly after my DGM died I had a complete breakdown and attempted suicide, mother refused to have both boys, would only have the older (older DS is the golden child, ds2 is this generation's scapegoat), so in order for me to get treatment, both had to go into foster care. I was lucky, I got offered DBT, which seems to have helped a lot of my disordered thinking about myself, and to have changed some of the scripts she wrote for me. I still have terrible physical symptoms whenever I have to see her though, my SiL was cast in her mold as well.

Even now, reading this thread and it's predecessors, I have got new insights. She is all over my DV ExP, buys him stuff, has him to the house etc, this sounds like it's normal for people like her. I just wish I could get past the whole self-blame thing, most days I can, but not when she has been in touch. My DF died in September, and she made it about her, even now I am not allowed to grieve, unless she can be there to watch. I feel like the last person in my family who cared about me has gone. DH is as supportive as he can be, but his childhood was very normal, and he doesn't really get it despite how she slags me off to him, telling him not to believe a word I say, because I lie all the time (ATM). Sometimes I wonder if I actually do lie all the time, and my childhood memories are all false, does that ring bells for anyone? Sorry this was so long and sad. I'm usually quite a happy person really