Izzyizin,Lueji, Blackcurrants and all DV posters are you there?

[Springhasarrived]

(old thread springaroundthecorner/Domestic violence, done the right thing now what?)

Sorry I know there are many others who have posted great support but have just choosen names that I have seen on the board recently.

Really asking for support. I went to the "appeal" today and it turns out to be full fucking new crown court trial. I was in Witness box for 2 hours plus 1 hour lunch break. I was called a liar about 50 times and I am in total shock.

It is not even over. It will continue tomorrow but I am done (In every sense.) It was so bad that the Witness Support lady said she would be reporting it to her manager and had never seen the like of it in a DV case before. I am not sure I should even be talking about it seeing as it is not over but as not giving details hope it is ok.

The court clerk type person - I know he wasnt and not sure of his title but he sat in and had a clip board and seemed to know a lot about procedure said that the barrister was v senior and that the judge was not stopping him because he would be afraid of procedural complaints.
He said that was actually a good thing as he would have brought it to a swift end for my sake should he feel he was going to have to overturn the original verdict. The CPS barrister was lovely and very kind. He said I had done well. My friend who came said that too but it didnt feel like I had. I got quite angry but they said I came across as decent and honest. I am actually embarassed as when the judge said we were stopping for lunch I said to him I cant do any more and he ignored me of course. He was kind at the end and I said thank you when he said I could go.
Sorry this is not very well written but worn out.

Spring I've never posted in relationships before but I just wante to say how inspirat

Spring I've never posted in relationships before but I just wante to say how inspirational you are. I was going to post before reading the last page or two but don't really need to as lily has said everything I would have said. I have been involved in so many cases where we know exactly who is lying and that it is in no way reflected in the verdict.

His counsel and the judge very likely are fully aware of the fact that he is an utter bastard but their hands are tied by the law. I've been involved in very similar cases where we've all sat there whilst a judge has basically begged counsel to present him with a reason to find against people like your ex. So please don't think people don't believe you, because they almost certainly do.

Spring, that man can't hurt you anymore, you are stronger already.

Mumsnet kept me going when I was fisrt 'out', it's a real lifeline, I'm glad you have it, cos it really does make a difference.

We're not just words on a screen. :)

Glad you're getting there!

Hi Spring,

Just wanted to update you. I spoke to a senior Crown Prosecutor today at work and told him I had had "anecdotal evidence" that some witnesses were attending court for appeal without being aware they would have to give evidence again.

He wasn't sure what the position was in our area, but promised to look into it for me. So hopefully, your horrible experience might bring about some change x

Glad you had a good day yesterday, hope today is another good one. I am so impressed with how brave you are to have gone through court twice.

Lily and Nyan, thank you for the professional info.

wishing you a good day - hope you are getting a bit more rest, too.x

I seem to be saying thank you a lot but thank you all again!

I'm terribly tired at the moment and think it is the aftermath of it all, so I am trying to be very kind to myself. I feel the most safe and content when at work. Sadly as part of the divorce process I am "supposed" to be looking for another job with more money. (wont go into that now but will sometime). I refuse to that at the moment as I need to recover under a supportive enviroment which I have there.

Lily and Nyancat, I could write a book on what is wrong with the system, but a very simple thing to carry out and something that would have helped me immeasurably have been to inform the witness that an appeal has been lodged as soon as it has been. You get the letter saying what the verdict was, and it does state that there is a possibility of appeal which has to be lodged within 21 days of the verdict. Of course after a month or so you feel that you are ok! It was 4 months before I got the call. It was literally "Hello, there has been an appeal lodged, what dates cant you attend?" I felt like it was a hammer blow. When I asked for more details she couldn't give me any. Obviously you say on what grounds as that is how you imagine an appeal works. The word Appeal is very misleading. I now understand that everyone has the right to have their case re heard in the Crown Court? Why not say this and not talk about appeals? I am sure that Twunt was given an extra bit of delicious power knowing that I didnt know what was coming up. His divorce solicitor colluded in in this. "The case is effectively over" was one sentence in a letter written after the appeal was lodged. A criminal solicitor told me that often these "appeals" succeed because the witness isnt even asked to go to court?

Everyone, my biggest problem in the last few days is friends saying he is out on a mission to destroy me and he wont rest until he has. As I have probably said above somewhere I think, he has managed to manoeuvre a 2nd FDR hearing delayed until next June whilst he tries to manipulate his income downwards..........I have been told by my lawyers that the judge will see right through this and I felt confident but not so much now with all this negative talk.......

Keep saying to yourself that you managed to get rid of him.

Even if you have to pay a financial price, it must surely be worth it.

It absolutely is worth it Lueji. Every moment I know it is, even in the worst of them.

I am a different person now. I am calmer, kinder, friendlier and of course free to do as I please once this is all finished.

I was furious today as I recieved a copy of the court order from the suspended FDR where it says I have to endeavour to get a better paid job and send all information and documentation on this to his solicitor 6 weeks before the next FDR hearing. For starters of course I would get a better paid job if could, plus I am getting wonderful support from some of the people I work with. I dont want a new job, nor do I feel up to finding another one right now. I just thought how dare he try and still run my life to the exent of what fucking job I have, he is lucky I still fucking have one!! Just needed to rant that despite calmer claim above!

Bump.

I am still fuming about this information I have to provide to Twunt's solicitor's 6 weeks before the next court appointment for the court as mentioned in the post above. I am trying to get away from this abusive man and yet I am supposed to be documenting every move on the job front. I dont WANT another job at the moment and I resent hugely being bullied about it. How dare he try and dictate my life? He is not part of it and surely I can live my life how I wish? Once I am actually divorced I will make every effort to make sure he knows zero about my life. If I get a new job I want it after he has no rights to demand details of anything to do with my life.

There has just been an announcement that 800 jobs are to be lost in my locality and that is not exactly going to make well paid jobs easy to find.

Could anyone suggest what I might do?

my advice would be to do what he has done and play it tactically... don't state all the (wholly understandable) reasons why you don't want a new job, but do state all the reasons why finding one would be nigh on impossible, including the info about local job losses. It is an issue at the FDR as he is presumably arguing that your present employment does not reflect your actual earning capacity, which in turn is relevant to how much spousal maintenance he should be expected to pay (the more you earn the less he has to pay to support your income needs... Hope you have a solicitor who feels trustworthy and helpful. What does she / he say about the info requested for the FDR??

Have followed this thread and am full of admiration for you spring. Will be thinking of you.
(Another (family law not criminal) lawyer here)

Hi Spring. Still supporting you from the sidelines. I'd be fuming too. How fucking dare they? . But agree that tactical is the easiest way to go for your own sanity - you don't want further battles. Play the bastard at his own game. As you say yourself, getting a higher paid job is not easy at the moment, so frankly if you apply for a job or three which your heart is not set on you wont get offered any. If you're offered an intervierw it's fairly easy to not get the job just by being honest.

Why did you apply for this job Ms Spring?
Because I was forced to by my xh's lawyers.

Why would you like to work here?
Actually, I don't want to.

I would put in writing a request to your current employers for a pay rise. You can present them with the letter at the same time explaining (not on paper of course) that you are being forced to do this by x's solicitors and you have no intention of leaving. Worse that can happen - they say no, but you still have proof of trying. Best that can happen, you keep the job you love and they give you a token rise.

You could also put in one or two applications for jobs that you are under-qualified for. Keeps x off your back.

Legally, have you been advised that they can force this? It would seem almost impossible to make somebody take a job against their will.

Thanks so much for both of your replies. I like all the suggestions as they make me feel more under control of the situation which obviously helps my confidence and self esteem. I will try them all.

When I was at the first FDR the judge (female) said I was in "an unenviable position" regarding finding a job with a decent income and suggested I register with a recruitment consultant. At the time I felt she was very much on my side so I do want to make sure she thinks I have made an effort. It seemed to me she was basically saying to me do that and I will be satisfied but it looks so much more threatening in the court order, especially the instruction to send all my job seeking efforts to his solicitor 6 weeks before the next hearing. What are they going to do with them, check up on the companies??? I feel that however many I do it won't be enough for them.

I will sort out my cv and just send it off to random jobs not that there are many even advertised in my area. (Moved here years ago to facilitate Ex on a short commute and cant move until DS finishes school so my hands are tied) At the moment work is only a couple of miles away for me as well so even if it doesnt pay much at least it costs me nothing to commute!

Oldqueenie, my divorce solicitor has been more than I could have ever hoped for. I couldnt fault her. She is going to get a bunch of flowers from me one day when all the papers are signed.

Hello Spring, how are you getting on? I hope the anguish is less raw now.

I've never heard of that type of condition being imposed, and how could it practically be enforced?

As has been said, you need to gather a file of copies of application forms and letters and rejection letters, not difficult in a recession. Don't let it upset you, look upon it as a creative project to complete in order to gain the result you want.

Your STBX is a bastard of some note!

Getting on quite well really Allalone. It is less raw now, even though I have realised there is something I could have said and another statement that could have been gathered from someone that would have put paid to all the arguments his barrister was making.........

That is good idea to consider this job thing as a creative project to get what Spring wants rather than what Twunt wants.

I've not mentioned it on this thread but I did have a "good" job in "our" business which the unqualified OW now has. A bastard of some note, indeed.............

I'm sure your solicitor has told you this... but rest assured no-one, not your abusive STBXH or the court can in any way force you to change jobs... but if there is a hearing about the financial issues the court may have to consider whether your current job reflects your actual earning capacity or whether yu can reasonably be expected to earn more by changing jobs. If you can bear it play the game and "demonstrate" that this contention is false... very glad to hear your solicitor is a gem. Wishing you all the good luck in the world. .

It's about time I did a bit of game playing. It's not me but I will do it.

Thanks for the advice. For my own sanity I think I will have to devise a way of spending the least possible time on it.

This is probably a how long is a piece of string question but I have about 4 months ahead to do this so how many applications should I make to make it look about the right amount of effort? You do hear of people making literally 100's of applications and not getting a job.

well I agree it is a bit of a difficult ?... but in your case there's clearly no point applying for things that don't pay more tan your current job, or as so far away that you can't get there, or expect random shift working when that would make any childcare impossible / unnaffordable... etc. A bit more than a token effort? But not a full time full on effort??

The judge was very keen on the recruitment agency thing so I think perhaps if I do that first (shows I am doing as I was told if I do it early on!), see what they have to say and go from there.

I will call one I've just found tomorrow and report back. Thanks. You've made me feel better about it.

I work in the employment advice game. Unfortunately for some, recruitment agencies are no longer all they are cracked up to be. A good proportion of jobs shown on online agency sites these days are dummy jobs (already closed, poached from other recruitment sites or just plain made up to pull in more CVs and business). Agencies are inundated with CVs from those on job seekers' allowance (who have to apply for a minimum 3 to 6 jobs a week) and 99% of applicants hear nothing more. Scanning programs are used to filter for CVs with specific qualifications or experience and you may get phone calls about other jobs. Just be honest about your preferred hours and travelling distance and you are unlikely to be put forward for interview.

Basically, I'm trying to say that unless you have very sought-after, niche qualifications or experience you can send your CV to umpteen agency job sites without standing much chance of being offered an unsuitable job over all the keenies out there. Once your cv's done, it's easy work to send it left, right and centre at the click of a button to show how hard you're trying. Hey presto, you've applied for 20 jobs without any luck (oh dear...) Spring happy, judge happy, x's solicitors don't give a shit satisfied.

I am and on your behalf for this job seeking crap!

I know very little but wanted to say this in case it is useful:
Take half an hour every Friday to visit a set 5 or so sites (fish4, monster, guardian, etc)
Print out all the jobs with your role advertised
Get a big fuck off large red pen
Cross out all the ones paying too little / too far away / unworkable hours
Asterisk those you'll apply for
Print off any rejection emails or copy any letters
(NB jobcentreplus / direct
gov has recently changed - you have to register now or something?)

Just because it seems to me that a folder full of "look you stupid twat" could be useful - ie.include evidence of what crap you are having to sift through, not just the few you apply for?

TBH I would be very, very reluctant to give his solicitor anything - disclose it at a mediation meeting or something but who the hell is he to be judge,jury&careers advisor to you?!!

Not sure if any help. Keep going, he can't break you. He is a piss-poor excuse of a human being for even attempting to do so. I am pretty sure that bastard ex of yours will find any afterlife a tad on the warm side :)

Well things are the pits tonight. I knew it was going to be a bad night so stayed up late but woke after half an hour with weird pains in knees.

So...here I am again on MN and cheered to see more posts and great advice and information. I even smiled at the afterlife comment . Up to then I was actually right down to thinking if it wasnt for youngest DS I couldnt go on. I know these are stupid, stupid thoughts but they come when sleep won't. I that once DS finishes school I will be free to go wherever I want so that is less than 18 months now. I need to hang in but I have a sense tonight of life just passing me by and of course still being controlled.

I like the idea of the Friday half hour and producing a huge folder of crap out of it. It keeps it in a controllable space for me if that makes sense.

Slambang, just on browsing this evening I've noticed so many job ads dont even give rate of pay but I suppose if offered an interview I can ask before I make the effort to turn up to a job I dont want? I have also been asked to provide a letter from an agency stating the likelihood of me finding a better paid position. Do you think that I would get one of those easily without having to pay too much?

PickledApples The request for me to provide information about jobs I have applied for to his solicitor has been written into a court order so I have to do it but not for another 4 months.

x

Update.

I've just been doing what PickledApples said with the red pen bingo and as a result have found a recruitment open day I can attend without even putting myself out - I pass the venue most days. Hoping this will add Brownie points suitable for the whole month?!

Wonderful MN help. Thanks.

Hi Spring,

I am sorry that things are hard at the moment .

I was sad to see you post that you still feel that you are being controlled by this twunt - you are FAR from being controlled. You broke free when you left him and reported him to the police.

Complying with court orders is not being controlled by him - it is doing what is best for yourself and your DS, nothing more, nothing less. It does sound silly, this job hunting thing - what does your sol say about it?

Anyway, what I know is that you are brave and strong and your DS is lucky to have you as a mother.

It sounds like he is at an age where he is learning what it is to be a man - and you are teaching him that women should be treated with respect and decency. He is very fortunate.

Standing up in court took a huge amount of courage, I know. That courage will get you through the next few months. We are all behind you! x

How about trying to reframe this job hunting business? Rather than viewing it as him / the court pushing you about, maybe try to see it as the means by which you are going to make sure you get what you are entitled to from him / the court... Just a thought....

Very sorry to hear last night was so hard. Hope today things feel just a bit more manageable / hopeful. You've just been through an incredibly stressful experience. Not at all surprising to be very affected by it. this too shall pass! x