Izzyizin,Lueji, Blackcurrants and all DV posters are you there?

[Springhasarrived]

(old thread springaroundthecorner/Domestic violence, done the right thing now what?)

Sorry I know there are many others who have posted great support but have just choosen names that I have seen on the board recently.

Really asking for support. I went to the "appeal" today and it turns out to be full fucking new crown court trial. I was in Witness box for 2 hours plus 1 hour lunch break. I was called a liar about 50 times and I am in total shock.

It is not even over. It will continue tomorrow but I am done (In every sense.) It was so bad that the Witness Support lady said she would be reporting it to her manager and had never seen the like of it in a DV case before. I am not sure I should even be talking about it seeing as it is not over but as not giving details hope it is ok.

The court clerk type person - I know he wasnt and not sure of his title but he sat in and had a clip board and seemed to know a lot about procedure said that the barrister was v senior and that the judge was not stopping him because he would be afraid of procedural complaints.
He said that was actually a good thing as he would have brought it to a swift end for my sake should he feel he was going to have to overturn the original verdict. The CPS barrister was lovely and very kind. He said I had done well. My friend who came said that too but it didnt feel like I had. I got quite angry but they said I came across as decent and honest. I am actually embarassed as when the judge said we were stopping for lunch I said to him I cant do any more and he ignored me of course. He was kind at the end and I said thank you when he said I could go.
Sorry this is not very well written but worn out.

This is exactly what i was trying to say in the post about dh aggression to dd on this board.

My experience in family court was devastating yet on these boards there seems to be a massive assumption that you can keep your child away from ex's that have behaved in this way (DV). This is not the case. Family courts position is as 'untaimedlioness' posted in another thread:

" it is damaging to children not to know where they come from - this has been shown in psychological studies and the point of contact is for the child's right to know their background and to have a relationship with both their biological parents, regardless of what he has done.

The general principle in all cases of separation is to always allow contact unless the damage resulting from contact is worse than the emotional/psychological damage caused by the child not knowing their roots. SS (and probably Cafcass) will argue that any dangers will be limited in a supervised environment. It's very rare for biological fathers not to get contact at all if it went to court - though you could refuse to comply.

Dear Spring
As a total stranger to you I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you on behalf of all the women who may find themselves in similar situations at the hands of similar bastards. You have taken a stand for what is right and perhaps one day, if enough women are as brave as you, the system will have to improve. Without brave women like you, nothing will change.
Sx

Slambang, yes I will hold onto that thought. My main problem at the moment is the feeling of not being believed. It is a difficult thing to deal with and something I have worked on a lot in my counselling. It goes back to childhood and school.

What I have to hang on to is that the police believed me, the CPS barrister believed me and so did all the kind court staff. I am certain they did. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

I believe it is a feminist and class issue. Those who had the "starring roles" in making their minds up were all fucking male middle aged professional twunts ie same as the Twunt with a capital T. They really do think they are something special, in their own self congratuatory little wanky world and equality of treatment is a very long way off. If my Ex were a low earning mannual worker he would neither have been able to afford the appeal nor be regarded with such chummy equality by the fucking judge. The way he was having smiley exchanges with the barrister was quite shocking.

I believe you, springy

Dear Spring,
I know exactly what you mean about the wanky little world. When I got divorced in the early 1980s, I remember, as though it were yesterday, how my husband's barrister and the judge seemed to be in kahoots, it was as though the barrister was pulling the judge's strings.

I was on legal aid, so my solicitor was not even in court, never mind me having a barrister, but the judge and the barrister were clearly chums, members of the same clubs with the same old school ties. Dreadful to see that in over thirty years absolutely nothing has changed.

Since then I have always represented myself in my few legal dealings. I am not suggesting that you do this, because your case is very complex, but I would advise you to read up as much as you can about procedures, time deadlines for submissions, and do not trust your solicitor to do all the work you expect them to.

And, oh yes Spring, I believe you.

I believe you. Sooner or later this man will get what he deserves.

Spring I have read this all infuriating last ten minutes while BFing DS and I have big wobbly tears all over him because of how brave you have been, how you got o badly treated, how unfair this all is, and what a good job you have done raising your lovely DCs and how I hope my DSes and up like your lovely DS. . .
(happily DS2 is only 10 days old and has slept through my whole palaver . But I am so furious for you. And, as has already been said, you are inspirational to me, absolutely. I can't bear that this has happened to you but the way you were so terrified and did it anyway- that is so bloody brave I can't even begin to say how much I admire you.)

If there's anything I can do . . and of course I Believe You.

I believe you Spring.

I am so grateful for this support. It is truely helping me to come to terms with this very much quicker than I anticipated. My company has now departed and I still feel calm so far.

Blackcurrants, I hate to think of you crying over your BFing DS on my part and I am sure he will grow up to be a lovely sensitive young man with such a caring mum.

A little story for you about my DS which you have reminded me of. Whilst I was pregnant with him I was doing a counselling course which ended just before he was born. I was invited along with others on the course to continue our journey with group therapy sessions. I said I would love to but would be BFing by then and it would be a bit disturbing to the group. They insisted it wouldnt be so we both went along. It was a wonderful experience and I draw on things from those evenings still. DS never made a peep ever whilst he was there and I swear some of it rubbed off on him. He has always been the most peaceful child.

Spring I am so sorry. When you feel a bit better, I would urge you to call Rights of Women and discuss your case with them.

Give yourself a bit of space. You know what he's done, your son knows what he's done, and he knows what he's done. No decision of the court can alter that.

Also, when you are ready, if you would like to PM me with an outline of your experience I would be happy to draft something for you if you wanted to take it further.

I will definitely take you up on that Olgaga. Thank you.

Nothing helpful to say, but I followed your other thread and I think you're absolutely amazing.

spring oh don't feel bad for me, I have a newborn and I weep all the time
I just . . . yeah, I feel so much all at once about this. . and mainly it manifests as: nothing removes the truth of what happened, and how amazing you are.

Congrats on baby, BC

Does he have a purple babygro ?

thanks AF- and no, shockingly he does not! he's a delicious chubber who'd make an excellent Ribena berry though, I must see what I can find that's the appropriate shade!

apologies for inane witterings hijack

Spring,
I hardly ever post in relationships as i don't feel i have the experience.

I just wanted to add to all the comments about how brave you are and how unjust it all sounds. I too am shocked by what a cosy little stitch up it sounds like. But i suppose i shouldn't be given the statistics on things like rape conviction. Our 'justice' System clearly has a baked in misogyny.

And don't forget to add to your list of who believes you the judge from the original trial. You've told your story to two judges, one believed you, the other sided with his mate.

That is so true and I hadnt thought about that!

The first trial took place when I was relatively "fresh" to it when I knew it was coming up in the future albeit 6 months after the event. The second trial was 13 months after the event and when I had spent months putting it behind me because I thought it was!

Something that has dawned on me overnight is that Twunt and his divorce solicitor deliberately misled me at the point where they knew an appeal was taking place and I did not. One of his foul (and this is a "Resolutions" solicitor!) letters said something like "the case is effectively over, so it is inappropriate and unhelpful for your client to be summoning the police to intervene" when he had been intimidating me when on his conditional discharge. My solicitor had to point out that hello he had been found guilty and I had every right to protect myself when being threatened!

I now realise that firstly they would hope I would not turn up to the Appeal because I didnt know about it and secondly that I would not have as good a recollection of the event. I was set up.

Had a terrible nights excuse for a sleep. I think it was because my visitors were gone. I woke every two hourly.

Having awful flashbacks this evening about what was said to me. Not sure how to clear it out of my head other than time...

I can only suggest distraction. Although sometimes i think it helps to let it run when you have stuff you'd rather not face. Just let it go for once, you may need to process it rather than bottle it up. But i know you said you have a counsellor so i'm sure you have some better techniques for dealing with stuff from them.

Maybe go through each thing and evaluate it as dispassionately as you can. E.g. They said x, that is a lie because a,b,c... Be sure in yourself and know that what happened in court was not a reflection of truth.

Hmm, I went to counselling today and for the first time ever I felt it was almost too much for her. I keep being told I am resilient and its beginning to irritate me. I have no idea why

Distraction is the key to it all for certain. Its so hard to find distractions on these horrible dark winter evenings. There isnt even much on the telly and I am still finding reading very hard as I cant concentrate.

Time will help, spring. I know it's a cliche, but at the root of every cliche is a kernel of truth.

I suspect you are being irritated by the resilience comment because people are expecting you to be strong, instead of offering a shoulder to cry on.

It seems dismissive of our feelings of powerlessness.

Sometimes we need to be vulnerable and embrace it for a while.

Fucking bastard men, siding with each other and covering up for each others' pitiful inadequacies.

Stupid dumb waste of space men who think they're oh so damn important they can shift Lady Justice on her axis and twist her anywhichway they feckin like, just to suit themselves and their bloody club sodas.

Stupid bastard men who can lie, thieve, cheat, deceive, belt, abandon and generally not even put the fucking bins out.

Wankerish men who still haunt every crevice of our court-rooms. Smirking like devils.

Thick men. Who think they're clever.
Stink-bomb men. Who think women fancy them.
Men who can't be bothered. Full stop. But still expect sex.

Men who pretend they can be bothered, just to get sex.
Men.

Pass the beer nuts.

Keep going Spring