Izzyizin,Lueji, Blackcurrants and all DV posters are you there?

[Springhasarrived]

(old thread springaroundthecorner/Domestic violence, done the right thing now what?)

Sorry I know there are many others who have posted great support but have just choosen names that I have seen on the board recently.

Really asking for support. I went to the "appeal" today and it turns out to be full fucking new crown court trial. I was in Witness box for 2 hours plus 1 hour lunch break. I was called a liar about 50 times and I am in total shock.

It is not even over. It will continue tomorrow but I am done (In every sense.) It was so bad that the Witness Support lady said she would be reporting it to her manager and had never seen the like of it in a DV case before. I am not sure I should even be talking about it seeing as it is not over but as not giving details hope it is ok.

The court clerk type person - I know he wasnt and not sure of his title but he sat in and had a clip board and seemed to know a lot about procedure said that the barrister was v senior and that the judge was not stopping him because he would be afraid of procedural complaints.
He said that was actually a good thing as he would have brought it to a swift end for my sake should he feel he was going to have to overturn the original verdict. The CPS barrister was lovely and very kind. He said I had done well. My friend who came said that too but it didnt feel like I had. I got quite angry but they said I came across as decent and honest. I am actually embarassed as when the judge said we were stopping for lunch I said to him I cant do any more and he ignored me of course. He was kind at the end and I said thank you when he said I could go.
Sorry this is not very well written but worn out.

Lueji, that is a very accurate observation about the resilient comment. In RL people seem to be at a loss as to what to say, and they dont seem to be asangry like everyone on here. . What I want is for them either to be angry with me or help me to take my mind of it....No, I am not resilient, I am just keeping going because there is no alternative.

Brilliant, Amazonian. I would copy that and pin it up in my kitchen if it wasnt for DS

Sadly, You don't get unfettered sympathy for DV, it casts a pall somehow, but what it also does is show up who are good people, and who are not.

It's a great exercise in clearing out acquaintances.

Not all men are as Amazonian says. Only very sad, tragic and insecure ones. 1 in 4 women experience DV in their lives, which means that 3 in 4 don't.

I have a DS, if I wrote all men off, I'd have to write him off too. I won't, he's lovely, caring and kind. 2 years on from Ex going, I have a boyfriend. He was in an abusive relationship too. He's kind, caring, sensitive.

3 in 4 men DON'T think like your ex. In time, you'll see. Your DS isn't your Ex. You know this! :)

If you lose hope for a normal, full and unfettered future, your Ex kind of wins. We can't have that happening! As smug as he is, you can be smugger, cos you know he did it' and you know not guilty is not the same as innocent.

You're still dazed from the recent events, and that is totally understandable, you do need to be kind to yourself, allow yourself to be angry, to be sad, to rage. All of these are vital to your recovery.

Atm you won't be able to just dust yourself off and get on with things, and you will need to remind yourself of that, so that you don't berate yourself for any perceived failings.

Just focus on the basics for now, the bare minimum routine, anything above that is a bonus.

In time you'll be able to do more and more.

All I say is don't rule anything out of your future life. Put the possibility of all good things out on the table, and like the boxing day buffet, you might just get round to it, when you feel you have room!

You will get through this, the truth is yours. Screw everyone who isn't 100% there for you.

On top of this of course I have the divorce stuff going on. That would make a whole new thread on its own, and it is just as lying, vindictive and unjust. Someone said to me today that he is putting his entire life, energy and money into trying to destroy me.

I agree about clearing out the friends. I have gathered more than I have cast off so that is all good and yes screw the ones who arent there for me.

Dazed it the right word. I feel as dazed as when it first happened. I've been into town and I feel like everyone is looking at me which is crazy. I used to feel I had a big sign with "alone" plastered across my face. I am incredibly angry that my recovery as been so damaged by the words of that barrister. I had just had my second Christmas and thoroughly enjoyed. I was nearly healed. I was happy and content being alone and now I am scared again.

I know all men arent bad Hissy. You are lucky to have found someone. I have a lovely man as part of my life but I never see him as he lives abroad. However we talk on the phone all the time. We've known each other for ever and have always been friends. He is divorcing too and we have the opportunity to talk for hours to support each other. I dont talk much about the assault to him as he finds it so difficult to understand. It doesnt bother me as it great to be able to talk about the future and moving forward with someone going through the same process. My father is an incredibly good man too.

Whilst writing this I fell asleep for a short while sitting up in the chair which the words about being kind to myself very pertient!.

As ever all this support in hugely appreciated x

I don't have all the wisdom and experience of other posters here, spring , but I think you are finding your own wisdom regarding taking care of yourself , which is good because you are so worthy of care and love.
Regarding flashbacks and sleep have you tried anything like guided visualization or hypnosis cds? I used my hypnobirthing tracks for years after DS 1 was born because they were so relaxing when I couldn't sleep. might there be some Cathay would do a visualization of you being in a safe place where you can let go and rest or something? apologies if this is a daft suggestion- just trying to think of options to get you through the next week or two, as I am sure that time will do most of the healing.

Springy, my man is lucky to have found me!

The long distance guy is in your life for a reason, he's there to teach you something, i.e. that men are not all bad, that you can talk to them as equals.

In future there will be other people for you to learn from, and then move on. Don't try to hang on to anyone, as what comes after them is much better.

You are not alone love, very far from it....

YOU ARE FREE!

My DS hit his head a week ago, took a while for him to recover, only now in the last few days am I seeing him back to being himself again.

You have had a blow, a great big traumatic whack, one you weren't expecting. So you are dazed. You know it and accept it, but it will pass. Know that anyone would feel the same. By understanding this and being kind to yourself in every way that you can, the feeling of being out of step will ease and you will get back to where you were.

The more evil your Ex does, the more obvious it will be to all and sundry that you were right and he was wrong. Let his own deeds be the noose he hangs himself with.

Hissy is right. Give 'em enough rope...

Hissy is right. Give 'em enough rope...

oops

Dear Springy,

I have been a lurker on MN for a long time, but never felt compelled to post before.

I am a criminal barrister who prosecutes and defends in cases involving domestic violence in the magistrates and crown courts.

Just a couple of things:

1. By turning up at two trial dates, you are braver than 70% of domestic violence complainants. MOST people simply aren't prepared to go through with it. You were. Be proud.

2. It is disgusting that you were not told that the crown court appeal would be a full re-hearing. I will certainly raise that with witness care in my area. You should be fully informed.

3. By acquitting your ex, the judge was not necessarily saying that he did not believe you. Remember - the Judge has to be SURE he is guilty. Not that he is very probably guilty, but sure of his guilt.

I obviously cannot speak to your circumstances, but in many cases of DV the case simply boils down to one persons word against another. Defendants are acquitted not because the complainant is not believed, but because the tribunal simply cannot be sure.

4)The defence barrister had not right to hector you and bully you. The Judge should have put a stop to that. However, when you are defending, you are duty bound to put your client's instructions. If your client says "she's lying", you must put that to the witness.

It is to give the witness a chance to answer any allegations the defendant may put in their evidence in advance. So by accusing you of lying, the barrister was doing his job. I have accused many people of lying, when privately I am sure they are telling the truth.

However, he should have treated you with respect and courtesy and I am sorry he didn't.

I have to be careful not to reveal my identity - my name is not actually Lily! If there is anything particular I can help with, please feel free to ask. xx

You are all so bloody wise!! This is tremendous stuff.

Blackcurrants, on my drive home today I remembered that I heard a short talk in the summer from a hypnotist. It was pure chance that I heard it and she really impressed me as she was also a qualified psychiatrist. Her ideas were impressive. I thought at the time I wished I had known about her when Twunt first departed and I was in such a bad place with sleep and stress. Have ready your post I am now certain I want an appointment. I agree it is the next week or two that will be crucial.

Hissy, your man is indeed very lucky! .Poor DS though. Hope he is fully recovered soon.

I understand totally what you mean about long distance guy being there to teach me something, as well as not hanging on when its time to move on and it is brilliant to have it pointed out. He has already taught me that I am not lonely. He is lonely and I dont feel the same. I was VERY lonely in my shit marriage though.

Wasnt there an album called Give Em Enough Rope AF? I was a massive fan of the Clash!

He has tried to break you, failed, tried again, got his mates on it and is wanting to put you beneath him - because he can't bear the thought of you being his superior or even his equal. His endeavours are futile; you have more goodness of heart and soul, grace, fortitude and decency in your little finger nail than he can ever hope to have.

Just offering a hand, springy. Can go around your shoulders or hold yours; which ever you'd prefer :)

Lily, thank you. That makes me feel so much better. SO much better. I appreciate you posting and will keep re reading that.

I was most certainly not treated with any courtesy or respect. The witness service lady said she had not see the like of it in any DV case before. She said she intended to put in a complaint about the barrister. The court usher also said he was shocked. I couldnt see my ex as I was behind a screen but my friend who came with me said he was constantly speaking in the ear of the junior barrister and then they kept stopping the main barrister for words. She said it really did look like Twunt was sitting having a rare old time paying to watch someone abuse me for 2 hours.

I dont think I have any questions but if if I think of any I will post.

I'm glad I could help :)

I was about to ask..was your ex "vocal" from the dock? I have had many clients who I am fairly sure are doing it simply to put their ex through the hell of giving evidence.

They are the ones who say stuff like "I don't care what you ask, just make her cry". Any barrister worth their salt will tell them where to go.

They then start writing questions and making suggestions in court, and they are a pain in the arse.

It seems the barrister was putting on a show for the client. Obviously that doesn't make it any better for you.

However, I know what would have happened prior to the hearing. Your ex would have been saying to his barrister "Springy won't show, she won't have the guts..yadda yadda yadda".

Then when he found out you were at court, prepared to do it all over again - his face would fall. He'd look shiftily at the floor then go out for a ciggarette.

I've seen it a million times. It's the moment they realise they cannot control you any more. Hold on to that. Good luck with everything.

Blimey you lot, I will be getting a big head at this rate.

I think its in my genes but be tough. Little, but tough. My grandad survived the trenches, claiming that it was because all the bullets passed over is head, and lived a good and happy life afterwards so I am sure I can recover from two hours fire from a pillock in a wig. (Sorry Lily!)

As you can see I am perking up immensely with all this support, virtual hand holding and hugs.

Yeah that would have been him Lily. Describes him perfectly. He has done a fair bit of expert witness stuff himself, so familiar with courts. I am certain he would nearly have formulated his defence himself.

Spring - you deserve the big head. You are awesome and continue to inspire me. So pleased to see the big legal folks on your thread!

Actually I KNOW he did. There was some stuff in the bundle of papers given to me in the witness box at the first trial that no right minded person could have possible thought could have formed any kind of defensive argument. This wasnt used quite sensibly by the first barrister. I was dying for her to use it as I was ready to rip him apart. It actually showed what an utter c*nt he is!

What you say about judges and the chumminess in court really resounds with me. I was a juror in the summer and sat on several trials, and it disturbed me how close the judge was to the prosecution/defence: all of them making jokes with one another and occasionally bantering. One afternoon we returned a guilty verdict for fraud and the man in question was probably going to jail- the judge was making jokes and even this man's own lawyer was tittering away. I found it all grotesque and weird at times. I understood it was a day at work for them but they just seemed to be going through the motions and didn't really understand that this was peoples' lives they were dealing with.

I watched lots of people being ripped apart as they gave evidence and it was deeply upsetting. I'm sorry you had to be up there for two hours.

There are so many sides to court experiences . It sounds like that was a rough time Belle.

I have heard David Cameron mention very proudly that his mother was a magistrate for years. Presumably he doesnt think the system is flawed.

Hissy - 'not guilty' is not the same as 'innocent '. Absolutely. Am Scottish, 'not proven' means 'we know you did it but can't prove it . . .'. The law is an arse.

Oh Springy, I have met your ex a thousand times over.

Always walks in with an immaculate suit, a slight curl of the lip and a wrinkle of the nose.

Thinks he is too good to be there because he has an O level and can string a sentence together.

Within 13 seconds of conversation, the woman-hating aggression radiates from every pore. The voice is tinged with a grating, weaselly "poor me" whinge.

He refuses to sit in the dock, because he's not a "real criminal". The court clerk makes him. He sits on the edge of his seat staring daggers at everyone.

The witness comes into court. She is attractive, clever, strong.

More attractive than him, but she doesn't think she is - because he's spent years telling her she isn't.
Cleverer than him, but doesn't think she is - because he's spent years telling her she isn't.

But here she is, to prove to him just how strong she is.

I have done thousands of DV cases. In 99% of them, my first thought on seeing the witness is "you can do MUCH better, love. Run for the hills!"

30 seconds into her evidence I get hear the first knock on the glass on the dock. I get my first angry "she's lying" instruction. Yes, thanks. Bugger off and let me do my job.

He thinks he will persuade the jury by looking as indignant as possible. He gets in the odd loud sigh and despairing shake of the head in. Just in case anyone is in any doubt that he does not agree. Fool.

Whatever happens in the end, the real punishment is stepping through the doors of the court. It's sitting in a dock. It's waiting in a corridor with "real criminals". For this type of man - just the experience is enough.

At the end, he'll ask me if we can sue her. I say no. He'll then stalk out of court in a fury.

Trust me Springy - he may have won the battle, but you have won the war.

lily, thanks so much for posting

Wow, thanks Lily. I will hold these words with me.

One of the supporters who came with me for the first trial said "he was purple with rage, and I mean purple". He also did a serious amount of knocking on the glass the first time too.

You and everyone else on here is right. I stood up to him and that is enough. I will stand up to him again in the divorce court. I can do it and will do it with all these thoughts behind me.

I hope this thread remains as the information and support would benefit future MN'rs who sadly will inevitably come ahead of me.

Dear Spring,
I am so sad to read that you are having to go through all this suffering.
Don't let this arsehole of a man beat you down, you are worth a thousand of him, and will triumph soon.

He and his money might have had an apparent victory in court, but you have your integrity and conscience intact, so are the ultimate victor.

You have paid a vast price in emotional energy, but I can see from your posts that you are already starting to gather your strength once more. I wish I could send you extra supplies of fortitude and resilience to help you through the coming months.

I think you still have a teenage son at home with you, so I hope you both have some indulgent times together, wine and pizza should be good for you both. Take care.

Just to report in that I feel TONS better today. It is absolutely this thread that has made the difference. I read it all before I went to sleep and when I woke up this morning and I will keep doing that until the words are drilled into me.

I did a really stupid thing at work today and I am more fed up with that than anything so I must be returning to normal already.

I know it is early days and there will be set backs but I am getting there.

Thank you all xx