So it's not all in my head then:( (long)

[MerlotforOne]

Can't quite believe I'm writing this, but need to get it written down before I minimise it again.
This morning, DH and I both a bit tired, DS (3) acting up a bit. DH offered to take DS and dog for a walk so I could get some peace. DS was being difficult about getting his coat on and DH was acting as though his temper was getting strained. He muttered 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this!' And then pinned DS on the stone floor and wrestled him into his coat. DS was sobbing and I wanted to comfort him, bu DH snarled t me to go upstairs and let him get on with it. I would normally retreat at this point so as not to provoke him, but today I decided not to and stood m ground.

He asked me again to go and I said if he was upset he should take the dog out and clear his head, and leave DS with me. He said 'you really don't want to push me just now' and I asked why he was threatening me? He walked over and shoved me really hard through the doorway into the next room and onto the floor. DS saw this and ran over to me. We both somehow ended up upstairs and DH followed us up and stood there saying I was over-reacting as it was only a shove had provoked him so i deserved the shove.

I was crying and DS was upset and brought me his muslin and dummy . I refused to let DH touch me and he told me again I was overreacting and denied the comment about me deserving it, said I had made that up. He then took DS and went for the walk. I haven't been able to send being in the same room all day, but daren't leave in case he gets really angry and does something worse.

He has only physically assaulted me once before, 8 years ago on holiday, and was so drunk at that time that he passed out and claimed no memory of it. He can be grumpy and I feel I walk on eggshells and that I have to justify myself a lot. Since the incident 8 years ago, I've always backed down before he lost his temper, and fooled myself that he'd changed, but I discovered mumsnet 6m ago and have been reading a lot on this board and feeling increasingly uneasy that quite a lot f it applied to me.

He is not at all financially controlling, but was very jealous and quite controlling of my social life (back when I had one) and can be quite argumentative after a drink (not that he drinks much these days). He can also be loving and affectionate and we have long periods of time where everything seems fine, but I've been excusing his behaviour for a very long time and now there are really no excuses left.

Don't know what to do really. Thoroughly miserable and very confused.

good - glad to hear it.

time will tell merlot - keep savvy

you know this is debatable of course but me personally i would do things that press his buttons -things that the 'old him' would've begrudged or got snarky about just to see. i'd make sure lots of everyday life stresses and struggles occurred and that i did all the things i wanted to do but was worried to do back when i was treading on eggshells.

it's ok to 'test' him - it's wise to do so imo.

well, of course

it wouldn't be a proper "last chance" if you both just kept your heads down

I think you need to deliberately do all the things you want to, merlot, and pay no heed whatsoever to his opinion, disapproval or attempts to deflect you

it will certainly mean you get your answer sooner rather than later

If I left now, I'd never know whether he could have changed and, for myself, I need to know that.

Why do you need to know this?

There will never be a final answer to this question you think you need the answer to. As long as there is tomorrow there will always be that question.

You want things settled for once and for all and that can never happen in a relationship, even in a healthy one. The great danger of wanting things settled is that boundaries can come a cropper to that desire.

Merlot you sound as if you are doing some great things to look after yourself and reflect on what you really want when not in the fog of parenthood, work and marriage.
Just logging on to say good luck.

Good luck with the job application. In my experience financial security, and knowing what you can do for yourself, really means the other factors you're considering become much less complex.

I have respect for the way you have decided to handle the situation Merlot. It may not be what others feel is right, but this is about YOU and what you feel is right. Your level of self awareness is admirable, and you have taken control, without ever losing sight of the life changing event that has brought you to where you are right now. Life doesnt come with any guarantees, but changes can be made, if the people involved truly want that. If that doesnt happen, then at least you move forward knowing you tried.

I also feel that getting all your ducks in a row, financially, as well as emotionally will go a long way to building up the confidence in yourself, that appears to have been lost somewhere along the line. I wish you well.

I agree with SwallowedAFly. A wise move to refuse to thread on eggshells, refuse to keep your head down, goad him abit if you must.

You need to know if he can change, or if your new life will be one of threading carefully so as not to "set him off". If so, the only one who changes is you, not him.

How has it been this week, Merlot?

Still feels like I'm stuck on spin cycle, thanks for asking saffron.

I feel as though I'm hanging on by my fingernails this morning (not helped by a hangover!), yet last night I had a lovely evening with friends. I had my first counselling session on Thursday and basically talked at the counsellor for a solid hour, but came away feeling lighter (literally, physically easier to move). I'm seeing her again next week. The following day I was ambivalent and angry and deeply resentful of H again. There's certainly no 'eggshell treading' going on, I'm so bloody raw I dont think I could hold it back if I tried!

H has shown no hint of aggression in the face of lots of behaviour from me that would have previously wound him up, and says that although he finds it very painful to see the damage he's done to me, he feels happier than he has done for years now that he's reprioritised. He says he didn't like who he was before and wasn't happy himself, but couldn't see how much harm he was doing to me and DS and felt stuck. He's enjoying being at home and being a house husband and I resent the fact that he's the one who caused the damage, yet he's having a great time whilst I struggle on feeling angry and depressed and exhausted. I'm reacting by not giving him an inch and deliberately bursting his bubble if he seems too cheerful, and I can't figure out if that's ok in the circumstances or whether I'm being childish and spiteful.

I can't concentrate very well and it's starting to affect my work. I think I may have to take some more time off as I can't deal with work because of all this and I can't deal with all this because I'm too tired from trying to keep going at work. I think I need to just concentrate on sorting myself out and stop feeling so damn responsible for everyone else!

DS is on good form still, and trying to work through this still feels like the right thing to be doing, but I'm coming to realise that it's going to take months or years, not just a few weeks, and that panics me a bit because I'm not very good at dealing with uncertainty in my home life.

Will stop rambling on now and go make a !

enjoy the tea.

really does sound hard. i'm struggling to see how he can feel happier than he has been in years in the face of having turned his wife into a wreck. that's... well just wow actually.

i don't blame you for finding that hard to deal with. also very all about him again isn't it?

Yeah, I agree swallowed. Still an awful lot about him.

He finds it very painful (for him) to see how much damage he has done????

Lots and lots of counselling I think merlot. Similar to you, I would have left my counsellor feeling as if I had lost a stone, but back to square one within a day or two. It took persistence on my part at changing me to get to a point where exDH's behaviour runs off me.

My very wise, lovely,kind counsellor told me very early on to 'trust the process'.
That is to go with the pain and anger and not to try to control it.
I had trait of wanting to control myself more than accept myself especially when I am being less than perfect.

I feel a bit peeved with your DH and his ability to attract support from work colleagues, friends and to an extent, your family. Really, there has been no downside from this for him has there..... and if you dont go along, you are being the unreasonable, unforgiving one? Hmmmm

You have repressed a great deal over the course of many years. It's starting to come out now. He hasn't repressed enough, frankly, over the course of many years. I do understand to some extent his feeling of liberation over admitting he has a problem and starting his road to recovery - it's how addicts feel, whilst the spouses of addicts may well feel 'well hang on a goddamn minute, what about everything I've endured for the last [x] years?'

Be resentful. And tell him that you resent him - why should you hold back?

Now that he has got the hang of things at home, why not think about having a weekend away just for yourself? (Personally I wouldn't leave my ds with him alone but only you can judge that). You badly need some time to process this in peace - time you've been denied by his return to the family home sooner than you wanted. You must put yourself first - if for no other reason than if you continue to sacrifice your resentment will reach a level where you can no longer tolerate him. The long term future of your marriage is better served by you paying attention to your own needs right now.

The way you describe the present situation Merlot it sounds almost as if he is being rewarded for his behaviour, whilst you are doing all the painful soul searching. He appears to be saying that he has had an epiphany, can suddenly see the error of his ways, and is doing everything in his power to put it all right. That all he is waiting for now is for you to catch up. Whilst this is essentially what needs to happen, it won`t be a life changing occurrence without a lot of help from therapy. At the moment it is just putting a sticking plaster over a very nasty wound.

Whilst your counselling is absolutely essential, your H needs it far more urgently.

Merlot, followed this thread from the start, posted earlier, (about Bancrodt 'types') have ncd recently but wanted to echo what others have said just above: the worrying thing for me here is that it sounds as though shoving you was the best thing that has ever happened to your DH. I mean that he gets to relax, find himself as a dad, has the thumbs up from others because he's 'trying so hard'.
Sorry, you have probably said earlier upthread, but what counselling is HE having? Has he contacted a support service for perpetrators?
Do you feel under pressure to be loving, kind in return, have sex, etc because he is 'trying so hard'.
Agree with others, have a bit of time to yourself, and have a bit of time to yourself with ds too.

Hi merlot been thinking of you. Glad you've had counselling and felt it helped.

Echoing the other things said above re his behaviour in some ways been rewarded. I understand this having recent fond through it; it all become about him, woe him, he had issues, his father died, he was stressed with work, he had nothing to live for.. Need I go on?! ...

I began to feel sorry for him and he turned the situation to his advantage.

Whilst am not saying that's the case in your situation, there are mirrors of it.

You need time away to relax, cry, process, alone. Am still doing it. It's hard as hell, but I need to understand what's happened,

I've said it before (and got flamed for it) and I will say it again

When women take men back without making them feel the consequences of their actions, you reward them for bad behaviour

Time and time again, I see men who have behaved terribly get the support of family, friends, their kids and most of all their browbeaten partner who appears to think they have no choice but to suck it up

you have a choice

I don't see why you should be flamed for stating the bleeding obvious, AF.

It's commonsense, innit? It's human nature to place more value on that which we've had to make an effort to acquire, rather than that which simply drops in our laps.

i've been thinking about this more.

the bit that worries me is how 'it's all ok now because he's happy'. re: the problem actually never was 'him' as such, it was that he wasn't happy and now that he is happy it will all be ok.

well it was all ok when you didn't make him angry before - cue eggshells for eight years and the one time you did stand up to him and risk the wrath you got terrorised by him (and so did your son).

so now is it 'so long as he is happy it will all be ok'? has he laid out (or is he in the process of laying out the foundations of) new egg shells? this time it''ll all be ok so long as you don't make him unhappy, so long as he doesn't get stressed, so long as he doesn't have to take on too much responsibility at work etc?

of course that wouldn't be instant. but just beware. all of his nastiness previously has been laid to blame on stress and unhappiness. all of his newfound kindness and being a better man is being rested on his happiness. you know that actually decent human behaviour towards the ones we love shouldn't rest on either of these things - stressed or relaxed, happy or unhappy we wouldn't do what he did.

if he's resting it on the externals and just rejigging the externals that are essential for his good behaviour/responsible for his bad behaviour then he's not dealing with the internal shit. he's also still making it 'conditional' - re the problem is the fault of being/feeling/having x and the solution is to feel/have/be y. reintroduce x or withdraw y and where are you?

it also wreaks of magical short cut thinking. it's all instantly wonderful now and will never be a problem again because i've had this epiphany and decided it was all just because of x. change isn't like that. ask your counsellor - in fact just ask yourself because you are having the real 'process' here and know what it feels like - up and down, back and forth, good bits and low bits, tiring, confusing etc. your problem really wasn't that he worked too much or that he didn't do enough wtih ds. it was that his emotional state and well being mattered more than yours and you were a satellite to his reality - tbh i don't think that has changed has it? he's setting the emotional tone and making that the centre and you're expected to orbit it. the piper is just playing a different tune.

That is as profound as it is on the button, sAf.

Hat's off to you - you've produced a well-reasoned and considered piece of work which will be of value time and again on this board.

May I have your permission to reproduce your response in whole or in part, with all due credit to you of course, when occasion arises?

of course izzy. don't know if it fits for others though - was very much just my thoughts on merlot's situation.

it's funny how some posters and threads work their way into your head. i don't actually post that much on mn anymore - will have like one or two ongoing threads on my 'i'm on' list. you've really gotten into my head for some reason merlot and i woke up thinking about what it was that worried me about his latest behaviour so i hope you don't mind me waffling on on here. take care of yourself and make room for your instincts.

Hear hear swAF.

Thanks swallowed. This is a subject that I keep coming back to with H, that I'm not going to stand for all this being put down to his burnout because it doesn't matter how burned out a person is, that doesn't excuse abusive behaviour. He gets that. He's awaiting counselling (I'm lucky to have a fab employer who got me seen within a week of referral, H has to wait a month for assessment). I've also called him on the 'magical thinking' quick fix.

To be fair, 'happy' is relative, he's lost a lot of weight since new year which for him is a sign of stress (I've gained weight comfort eating ) and often seems teary, but I've told him I won't/ can't provide him with emotional support for this, so he's holding it together around me and DS. He was utterly devastated when I left (as I don't think it had ever entered his head that I would) and I keep making it clear that I'm staying because it suits me at the moment, but I owe him nothing and our marriage may not survive this regardless of what happens now, but it definitely won't if there's any more emotional or physical abuse, so there have already been 'consequences'. I also think that you shouldn't underestimate the beating his ego and reputation will have taken when he resigned from his important job. Medicine is a closed world and the gossip mongers are already out in force.

I don't feel at all threatened by him atm and would leave again (or ask him to leave) if I did. I appreciate all of you keeping my feet firmly on the ground, but this feels like the right thing for me at the moment and I want to work through my counselling and get some strength back whilst benefitting from the practical support I have here.

great merlot. i'm not saying do x or do y just keep your eyes, instincts and intellect open and appraising.

there'll be plenty of incentive to accept, appease and accommodate so perhaps our duty is to offer the counterweight to that.

funny though isn't it that having assaulted your wife and small helpless child doesn't count as a priority for psychological help?

Merlot

As I'm not sure what practical support I can give you at the moment have a squeeze. What you're doing sounds difficult and lonely. I hope that someone in RL is providing you with encouragement to look after yourself and prioritise your needs.