So it's not all in my head then:( (long)

[MerlotforOne]

Can't quite believe I'm writing this, but need to get it written down before I minimise it again.
This morning, DH and I both a bit tired, DS (3) acting up a bit. DH offered to take DS and dog for a walk so I could get some peace. DS was being difficult about getting his coat on and DH was acting as though his temper was getting strained. He muttered 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this!' And then pinned DS on the stone floor and wrestled him into his coat. DS was sobbing and I wanted to comfort him, bu DH snarled t me to go upstairs and let him get on with it. I would normally retreat at this point so as not to provoke him, but today I decided not to and stood m ground.

He asked me again to go and I said if he was upset he should take the dog out and clear his head, and leave DS with me. He said 'you really don't want to push me just now' and I asked why he was threatening me? He walked over and shoved me really hard through the doorway into the next room and onto the floor. DS saw this and ran over to me. We both somehow ended up upstairs and DH followed us up and stood there saying I was over-reacting as it was only a shove had provoked him so i deserved the shove.

I was crying and DS was upset and brought me his muslin and dummy . I refused to let DH touch me and he told me again I was overreacting and denied the comment about me deserving it, said I had made that up. He then took DS and went for the walk. I haven't been able to send being in the same room all day, but daren't leave in case he gets really angry and does something worse.

He has only physically assaulted me once before, 8 years ago on holiday, and was so drunk at that time that he passed out and claimed no memory of it. He can be grumpy and I feel I walk on eggshells and that I have to justify myself a lot. Since the incident 8 years ago, I've always backed down before he lost his temper, and fooled myself that he'd changed, but I discovered mumsnet 6m ago and have been reading a lot on this board and feeling increasingly uneasy that quite a lot f it applied to me.

He is not at all financially controlling, but was very jealous and quite controlling of my social life (back when I had one) and can be quite argumentative after a drink (not that he drinks much these days). He can also be loving and affectionate and we have long periods of time where everything seems fine, but I've been excusing his behaviour for a very long time and now there are really no excuses left.

Don't know what to do really. Thoroughly miserable and very confused.

merlot you sound super intelligent and really lovely.

whatever is going on/not going on with dh i do hope you're taking care of yourself. was nice to read you'd taken yourself off to a spa for the day and that you've caught up with a friend who it was good to see.

you sound a bit.. numb/detached maybe. thinking you may be a bit of a rationaliser. i am too and there's nothing wrong with it - thinking, rationalising, reasoning etc are all good and useful. obviously we have to do the feeling too and that takes a while if you're a think first person. i spend a lot of energy thinking, working things out, pros and cons, etc etc etc when sometimes it just needs time and for my feelings and instincts to come through and what i call the 'back burner' stuff. that stuff isn't rationalised it just sort of mulls, digests and filters the murk till it clears it up.

i don't believe that at this point you're going to kick him out or that you'll be calling police as others suggest. so stick with the boundaries you do want and have - the spare room, the right not to communicate/act normal if you don't want to, the ability to go off to your bedroom and it be unspoken he doesn't have the right to follow you. don't give up those too soon within the limits you've set (being back in a house together) still get space, watch and wait and let that mulling/digesting back burner stuff do it's thing.

sorry for being so advisory. i believe you that you're not in danger and that you know him well enough to know if you were. just give it time - see how he responds to you actually keeping and maintaining those boundaries - if he continues to respect and accept or if he starts pushing etc.

sorry long post. smart choice on your gp btw - though possibly a different one to your husband would be the more perfect 'boundary'.

Thanks for honest replies to questions Merlot. Feels a bit awkward asking sometimes but lots of helpful answers come back from more experienced posters than me.

If you are both in high pressure jobs with an under school age child, it isn't inevitable there will be problems but if they do crop up it won't help if you can't share the load so to speak. It's asking a lot for a person to meet all of another's needs but at this level of commitment there should be a decent and equal effort to at least accept things don't always go our own way and there's enough mutual support to keep things better than just tolerable.

Somewhere down the road you and H went off track for some reason. I think you've held things together since that drunken moment 8 years' ago but it's all kicked off again. As you say, you didn't want a recurrence every 8 years. People do struggle on trying to keep life normal especially when a DC is on the scene but it's a big lie and you end up losing sight of yourself.

Merlot, just a note on religion (and doctors)... my exH was really into religion and still is in many ways. Not religion as I recognised it. He was very into getting to church on time, but didn't pray or sing aloud when we were there. He would shout at the DCs if we were running late to church, including muttering 'Jesus fucking Christ' as they struggled into their coats. It was religiosity but missing the point of what it was all about. For him religion was something he associated with his very strict family, and appearances meant a lot to his mother and his surgeon father (his father once broke the leg of one of exH's sisters while spanking her when she acted up in church -- no doctor involved in the repair of the child's leg ever asked any awkward questions).

[I know you are a doctor, but some of your colleagues are not very sorted out people and I hope I do not offend you by saying that].

When a massive and undeniable crack appeared in our relationship (he confessed a fling to me) he was almost giddy when he had got his story out (this giddiness evaporated when it became plain that I had lots of questions that needed answering by him), and he urged me to find myself a good priest to confide in, as he had done. This was the same man who told me in all seriousness when we were in the car returning from a bar mitzvah a few years previously that he was very interested in converting to Judaism.

A person who throws himself head first into some kind of spiritual path but who is living his life as if that spiritual element was making absolutely no difference is a person who has:
(1) identity issues, no fixed sense of himself,
(2) grandiosity and possibly some sort of god complex, sadly likely to be magnified by his profession,
(3) no shame, no humility -- he is at front and centre of any religion he happens to hang his hat on.

Many doctors like to fix things for lay people -- for others. They don't like to see themselves as the broken ones. Many don't like to see themselves as people in need of scrutiny or answerable to authority.

Your H's feet are not on the ground. The way he is behaving now has no relation to remorse.

merlot thinking of you, how are you?

Hi Chaos, I'm ok thanks, how are you getting on?

I'm back at work this week and enjoying a bit of 'normality'. H and I are working on what I'd need our marriage to look like in order to be willing to stay. He's working through the men's chapters from 'Should I stay or should I go' and is genuinely reflecting on his behaviour and the beliefs and values that caused it. He has taken over all the household chores and much of the childcare (he's off work currently). It started off feeling as though he was trying too hard and going through the motions, but now he seems to be enjoying it, but is staggered by just how much time it all takes!

He's still in the spare room, I'm maintaining boundaries and a 'well this is great, but it's very early days' watchfulness. I'm sleeping a lot better. I hope we can rebuild from the ashes of our relationship, as I'm really enjoying his company and recognising the man I thought I married, but if it all turns out to be just very advanced 'hoovering', I know now that I can and will LTB. I no longer feel confused or hopeless. I feel strong and knowledgeable. I realise lots of MNers will think I'm just being a mug and getting sucked back in, but thanks to you all and the wonderful Lundy Bancroft, I feel I have enough awareness and tools to be able to give H one last chance, and walk away if he doesn't take it.

Supporting you whichever way you take.

Good for you Merlot. You sound much stronger.
Interesting that he is staggered by the amount of work a house takes....what did he think you were doing?

Keep those boundaries up. And as you are the only one there, and only you have to live with your decision, I echo Donkey.
As much as I urge you to resist the pressure from family and friends to stay in the marriage, equally resist any notion that there is only one acceptable course for MNers.

Best of luck, Merlot.

yeah - agree on the boundaries - keep them up and see if he can continue to respect them rather than expecting them to drop once he's been a good boy for a couple of weeks.

likewise i'm here supporting whatever you decide - just make it open eyed and remember no decision is permanent - new evidence revises judgment which revises action etc...

best wishes.

You sound so much better, Merlot! I don't think I would be too worried about you getting sucked in after reading your update; even if he did gradually turn up the water to boiling again, I think you'd recognise the signs and know to jump out this time. Best of luck with it all.

Good luck. Remember you are his equal - always.

Is he not going to go to counselling of any sort?

Are you?

Im with <strong>Donkeys. We are just here in a supporting role. Only you can decide what you want from your marriage, and you are doing just that, but with your eyes wide open, and boundaries firmly in place this time. I truly wish you well Merlot.

I think you are taking the more courageous route. Good luck.

We will be here if you need us - ever. Hopefully to tell us in one, or three, or five or ten years time that it all worked out OK and that you are a very very happy family unit. If not, come back and we will feed you Mnet Merlot and love.

Wow you are really going it the right direction. Just please please try counselling too (both of you), as the best intentions need professional help, change is hard to do.

Thanks for all your good wishes.

I've enjoyed bein back at work the last couple of days, as I was doing clinical stuff, which is absorbing and forces me to concentrate. Today I'm on my own in the office and having difficulty concentrating and feeling actually quite panicky and anxious, though I'm not sure why.

I've just emailed Occ Health to apply for counselling and completed a self-cert for last week, so I guess I'm thinking about it all.

H mentioned over dinner last night that he's feeling some guilt for 'walking away' from his most stressful role at work, as he's dropped his colleagues in it somewhat, and I panicked and had (by my standards) a huge rant at him, which left us both tearful and shaky. He has promised never to go back to that role, and I have made it clear that it's on my list of 'deal breakers'. He says he only mentioned it because he wants everything to be 'on the table' and I can see that's important, but he's never had the same difficulty I have in expressing emotions, and I really can't provide him with emotional support on this.

He has his Occ Health appointment this week and should be able to get some counselling through them.

Oh, and it's lovely relative's funeral tomorrow

Merlot, Its understandable that you would feel somewhat threatened when he mentioned the extra work, which has caused so much stress to both of you. Perhaps feeling that he was working his way up to suggesting he returns to it. If that was his intention, then he still isnt getting it is he? Continue the way you have started, by re-affirming your conditions, and boundaries. No one said it would be easy. You are still reeling from what happened, and your anxiety levels will be up and down.

I hope you get the counselling very soon. It will help you get a better perspective on things. Thinking of you.

Going back at work has got you back into a familiar secure role, while you are busy it is a distraction.

Well done applying for counselling, (sorry that sounds patronising), think baby steps, it's been an exhausting time emotionally. The intensity of the past fortnight may well see the funeral affecting you even beyond the immediacy of loss and grief.

Re: last night's upset, it's important to have highlighted those issues you feel strongly about and it's good to air concerns and not just as a fait accompli but to discuss together. Hard to avoid a knee jerk response and heated exchange, as Autumn says it's still early days and you're going to be sensitive for a while to any triggering undercurrents.

AutumnH says he mentioned it just as a comment in passing, that he never had any intention of going back to it, but he understood why I was upset.

I'm getting nothing done at work today! I'm trying to go easy on myself and just do emails and urgent stuff, but I feel guilty sitting here looking at a list of jobs that I'd usually rattle through but that currently require more concentration and intellect than I can muster.

I hope I get the counselling soon, but in some ways I'm dreading it, as it feels like I'm going to be picking the scab off my emotional wounds, iykwim. At times I have an overwhelming urge to just pack a rucksack and disappear, on my own (no H, no DS, no dog, no colleagues or concerned friends or worried family) for a while - which isn't like me at all, usually I'm 'Little Miss Responsibility' (although I do love travelling).

Swallowed, I'm actually usually a very intuitive person, but my 'gut instinct' has either disappeared or I'm somehow subconsciously suppressing it atm, and that's scaring the hell out of me, because I always trust my instincts and feel adrift without them.

When I posted on Monday I felt really strong and clear, and now I just feel too bloody tired for this!

You are still in shock, Merlot.

I thought you were a bit euphoric on Monday. That is shock -- actually the high you get when you want to shut a door on something and think you have managed to do it.

You seem to be a person who likes a settled routine, and can very effectively immerse yourself in activities that occupy your brain. Are you a person who can perform well when you have the security of knowing the expectations and parameters of your job? Maybe you are the sort of person who can adapt to the sort of home situation you described, and perform well there too as long as it remains static, no matter how unpleasant walking on eggshells can be, maybe someone who takes comfort in predictability and shies away from upsets and situations that are extremely open ended like the one you have just gone through.

Hence perhaps the relief that seemed to me to come through your post on Monday -- relief when you thought you could draw a line under it and get back to the emotional safety of work and routine and intellectual engagement and relief that your H had seen the light and was going to do the exercises in the book (putting your faith in intellectual engagement as a way to deal with emotion there) and it would all be settled again.

There is really no shutting of this door possible here without some hard slog through the tangled undergrowth of emotion.

I'm actually usually a very intuitive person, but my 'gut instinct' has either disappeared or I'm somehow subconsciously suppressing it atm, and that's scaring the hell out of me, because I always trust my instincts and feel adrift without them.

Yes you are right you are not listening to your gut. You are listening to the instinct that seeks emotional safety and is therefore trying to get the gut to shut up. That is why the comment about the job jarred you so much.

Merlot, remember that YOU will be in control of the counselling. A good counsellor will walk with you, metaphorically speaking, to wherever you feel you want to go. Will guide, but never push you beyond what you feel able to present with. Sometimes those "scabs" you mention are infact walls weve built to protect ourselves from hurt. You, and only you will know when/if its time to knock them down, and face that hurt. Thinking of you.

I'm de-lurking after reading your thread last week and re-reading it today.

Many of the things you've posted here, along with the feelings you're having, remind me of my situation eight years ago: Professional couple; long standing EA that had become an ingrained behaviour; fear of physical abuse - with the occasional foray into something real; one DS; a H trying hard; your complex feelings; still sharing a roof. It's a shitty, tough and lonely road to travel. I really feel for you.

You've got some really good advice and support from people Merlot. The only thing I think I can add to what's been said before is I found the change curve - which I'm sure you've come across - quite useful for rationalising my own, and others, feelings and helping me through my own reactions and others. I've posted a link to a generic overview of it.

Each new piece of information that you're getting, every action by your H and each scenario that you're considering will be forcing you to go through it again, that's why it feels like you're all over the place. Everyone around you will be going through a similar cycle. I found it useful because it reminded me that if family were minimising the situation I should give them more information. If I was feeling strong one minute and out of my depth another I should look at what had made me change that feeling.

Change Curve

Just remember that we are here for you - here for the good days, here for the bad days, here for the successes, here for the not so good times, here to hear about you and about ds. How is DS by the way?