So it's not all in my head then:( (long)

[MerlotforOne]

Can't quite believe I'm writing this, but need to get it written down before I minimise it again.
This morning, DH and I both a bit tired, DS (3) acting up a bit. DH offered to take DS and dog for a walk so I could get some peace. DS was being difficult about getting his coat on and DH was acting as though his temper was getting strained. He muttered 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this!' And then pinned DS on the stone floor and wrestled him into his coat. DS was sobbing and I wanted to comfort him, bu DH snarled t me to go upstairs and let him get on with it. I would normally retreat at this point so as not to provoke him, but today I decided not to and stood m ground.

He asked me again to go and I said if he was upset he should take the dog out and clear his head, and leave DS with me. He said 'you really don't want to push me just now' and I asked why he was threatening me? He walked over and shoved me really hard through the doorway into the next room and onto the floor. DS saw this and ran over to me. We both somehow ended up upstairs and DH followed us up and stood there saying I was over-reacting as it was only a shove had provoked him so i deserved the shove.

I was crying and DS was upset and brought me his muslin and dummy . I refused to let DH touch me and he told me again I was overreacting and denied the comment about me deserving it, said I had made that up. He then took DS and went for the walk. I haven't been able to send being in the same room all day, but daren't leave in case he gets really angry and does something worse.

He has only physically assaulted me once before, 8 years ago on holiday, and was so drunk at that time that he passed out and claimed no memory of it. He can be grumpy and I feel I walk on eggshells and that I have to justify myself a lot. Since the incident 8 years ago, I've always backed down before he lost his temper, and fooled myself that he'd changed, but I discovered mumsnet 6m ago and have been reading a lot on this board and feeling increasingly uneasy that quite a lot f it applied to me.

He is not at all financially controlling, but was very jealous and quite controlling of my social life (back when I had one) and can be quite argumentative after a drink (not that he drinks much these days). He can also be loving and affectionate and we have long periods of time where everything seems fine, but I've been excusing his behaviour for a very long time and now there are really no excuses left.

Don't know what to do really. Thoroughly miserable and very confused.

Just finished Bancroft chapter 4. It appears H is largely 'Mr Sensitive', with a large dollop of 'Mr Right' and a spoonful of 'Demand man'.

Flatbread I wish it were as simple as taking him at face value, and I do believe he genuinely wants to change, but I feel if I let go of the anger as I did 8 years ago, then I might end up in the same place yet again in another 8 years, and by then DS will have been permanently scarred. So far, my anger and upset is the ONLY thing that has forced him to look at himself and make changes. If I let him off the hook now, nothing will change, and the one thing I'm certain of is that I don't want to ever go back to how things have been these past couple of years.

I feel so confused about him that I decided to take a highlighter pen to Bancroft and just highlight any bits that felt familiar or as though they were speaking to me. So far, 4 chapters in, about 20% of what I've read is highlighted.

Oh bloody hell.

It's one hell of a book.
I really believe that everyone should read it.

Someone elsewhere once talked about not being able to live in a fear free bubble in this society. I think in your own home with your nearest and dearest you are entitled to expect that. That is why an outburst or over the top reaction is such a shock. I know it is too easy to be cynical and doubt a total stranger's intentions but we can only go by what OP tells us.

It is good to hear how other people's crises can be put right. Yes it takes two to row. It also takes one to raise a fist or shove hard enough for a grown woman to topple over. So far what she has described doesn't sound like her H is wholly acknowledging how upset he made her. He says the right things now, fair enough. This isn't a knuckle dragging, inarticulate buffoon she just met. Taking what someone who frightened you now utters at face value is a big step, let alone without a chorus of polite there there, least said, soonest mended in the background from well meaning loved ones.

It's not just your own future Merlot you have to consider. Hope you get some rest after reading.

PS I have no axe to grind, I've never read the Lundy Bancroft book.

Merlot, it is tough.

I coukd see myself happy without him and with him. I was willing to give it a chance, but also willing to walk away if it didn't work out.

In my experience, at least, when the issues are put on the table in very stark terms, there is no hiding them or pretending they don't exist.

We discussed his behaviour, my response and what we both needed to do going forward. It was not an on/off switch that he would change, but a long journey when we frequently discussed the relationship and how we felt.

And we still do that now, it is so ingrained to do a stock-check every week and see how the other is feeling and if we need to do anything. (We usually discuss it over Sunday papers and coffee, when we are both relaxed)

It was hard work, but for me, it has been worth it. I am fairly sure I could have been happy without him, and he knows that. But no regrets and quiet happiness that we have found our rhythm

Ps-he was also physically abrasive three times and it would probably have been described as dv here. I am not scared of him though, never been. If anything, he is scared when I go all quiet and wants to know if he did something wrong.

Flatbread is right, it is tough and there are no shortcuts.

Upthread jessjessjess said you can still love someone who treats you badly. That's why you are confused. Hating him would be simpler.

Do you mind me asking btw is H your first serious relationship? I know you said you've been with him since you were 21.

Merlot, don't know if you read my post earlier on in this thread. got some flaming for it so just stepped out. didnt read through whole thread but i get that you're confused and want to make this work though you are still angry with him.

question are both of you going for professional help? THIS IS IMPERATIVE!!!! though it may seem that your DH is willing to change and work things out, BOTH of you need to go for counseling. Him to work on his behavior/emotions/anger and to progress in a healthy and stable manner and YOU to work through your anger/insecurities and fear.

i know that you are back home now with him. what made you take this step? no flaming here, but was this pressure from family/friends? you should be talking to a professional who will guide you through this process and work things out for you in a step by step hierarchical process.

Do not let your emotions run your life now or you will both end up unhappy again. if you read my previous post, i was the first one to say that your marriage can have a future with the right help. are you seeing someone of caliber right now?

you yourself are an educated professional, and therefore should acknowledge that you do need the help right now from a properly trained and licensed LCSW (or whatever the equivalent is in the UK.)

i hope you find the strength to make wise decisions and that all does end up working out best for you and DS. Please disregard passionate posts on this thread that are unhelpful and only serve to fuel your anger. this will only end up making you more confused.

wishing you best of luck

The only people who know what has gone on in a relationship are the people in that relationship.

Trust yourself, merlot. Take care of yourself, and try to find impartial (professional) support.

And remember, you have been under stress for the past 8 years. That's what 'walking on eggshells' means.

sorry merlot, see that you are going for counseling. what i mean is that HE must be going for help as well if you still plan on making this marriage work again.

either way, continue getting the help for yourself, it will help you realize where you stand and what your next steps should be.

take care

Merlot, it must feel like everyone - and everything - is conspiring against you. Wanting a quick happy ending to what they see as a little blip. You say you are seeing your GP, who is the same as Hs. Is this the one who diagnosed burnout? This all seems to be getting a little incestous. You absolutely need to start seeing someone who doesnt know either of you, and is therefore, completely impartial. Only then can you truly explore your own feelings. The fact that H is back at the house is, I feel, only going to muddy the waters, and add to your confusion. If you still feel unable to ask him to leave, albeit possibly temporarily, at least make sure that you state your boundaries quite clearly. Let him know that you are far from going back to how things were, and may never be able to. I`m afraid I get the feeling that he is just making the right noises, and paying lip service at the moment.

I really feel for you Merlot. You sound so alone, despite being surrounded by family and friends. Be strong for your DS, and take your time working out what you want from this marriage, and if you think it can be achieved. Try to ignore what others - however well meaning - are saying.

i'm afraid that 'don't get YOURSELF upset again' statement really alarmed me too. that's pretty damned shocking.

and actually the understanding you being upset/confused etc business is also alarming to me because it fits with that getting yourself upset thing too. it's you who has the issue, is upset, emotional, has things to sort out and bless him he's just the supportive passive victim standing by.

i'm afraid i don't think he has genuinely taken responsibility i also still think he's 'playing' a game/strategy/whatever you want to call it whether consciously or not. he's still manipulating power.

please don't worry about bursting his bubble. you need time and space whatever you chose to do. if you just 'go along with it' now you won't have chosen anything and there will be no resolution, just a slipping back into it. i think your life deserves more than that.

I think it is great that you have friends and family to rely on, but perhaps you need to ask them to keep their opinions to themselves for the moment, as it is just pressurising you?

I agree with the others. That he sees it as you got upset rather than his vile behavior upset you clangs massive alarm bells.

It is no different from you are mental or paranoid until you actually catch them with their trousers around their ankle shagging another woman. Even then some of them would say it is you get your glasses checked you didn't see what you did.

oh merlot, it all sounds awful for you.

Your friends are NOT HELPING! i'm sure they don't mean to be, but they are pushing you back into a place where you are vulnerable and not feeling safe. Thats not ok. no no no no no :-(

Try saying 'i wish it could all be ok too, but you can't get over something like that in a few days'

trust takes longer than 3 or 4 days to repair when he has been the person he has to you for years and years. Poor you. I am worried for you, because you are back in your own home with your h there ready to push and push at your defences to whitewash everything and gaslight you into pretending everything is ok.

Everything is not ok. And I'm afraid he will use your grief at a family loss as a way of making it more difficult to ask him to leave, or to leave again yourself.

Can your parents have your ds for a bit to let you rest? you really really need some time to yourself to rest and heal and mourn and be sad.

"He was very worried that I 'don't think too much about all this and get yourself upset again'"

Yes, the perennial default of anyone who doesn't want their eyes opened, their blinkers taken off, to question anything.

You see it on here time after time when someone questions something or analyses something - they're dismissed by a certain sect as 'over-thinking'. There seems to be a real fear about what this 'over' thinking might lead to...

It's the exact same thing here. He's 'very worried' that you 'don't think too much about all this' and 'get yourself upset again'.

Thinking is good. It leads to clarity and understand.

He's trying to make out that he doesn't want getting upset. How lovely of him. Of course that's not why he doesn't want you to think. He doesn't want you to think because he doesn't want you to join the dots and see a picture that might not portray him in a very nice light at all.

You need to do all the thinking that this situation requires. Whatever that thinking leads to is up to you, but to ignore it, sweep it under the carpet, pretend it doesn't exist - as your H wishes - is absolutely not the answer.

Taking this particularly statement at 'face value', as has been suggested is, I honestly think, the worst thing you could do. Time and space is really something you should push for.

Merlot, trust your instincts.

Flatbread is managing her H, he is controlling his selfish and angry traits.

NEWSFLASH - she's still on eggshells, just more robust ones. MOST people don't need to tell their H that they are exhibiting unacceptable signs for them to apologise and check themselves.

Your H is nothing like hers. You know that.

He's dismissing your legitimate feelings of anger, shock, outrage, hurt and horror at HIS behaviour toward you and your DS.

Already.

He's learned nothing, and most likely won't ever learn anything.

He needs to get gone again. You have to get him out of your head/life so you can work out sensibly what is right for you.

ALL abusers are desperate to get back in, so they can catch you againm, before you see the truth. It's classic.

They panic at the potential loss of control over you, over what others will think of them, but never, ever what YOU feel about it all. That has NO bearing whatsoever.

You need to woman-up and regain your territory ASAP. (meant with all the love, care and gentle stroking in the world, you totally rock sweety)

Oh my love you are a professional woman and a doctor. You can do your job without crucifying yourself with stress. He can't. In ten years time you will be the main breadwinner, you will still be managing him. He will still be taking and you will still be giving. Your son will be in the middle of it and when your son is big enough for you to both go out, ie, when he is at his most vulnerable in the context of growing up and hormones one of you will find happiness elsewhere and his life will be blown apart or if it isn't it will be at the expenses of your happiness and family functionality.

Of course family and friends are saying it's sad and you could work it out - that's what the middle classes do, quietly and miserably - until breaking point. DS has so many friends whose parents have parted at 14, 15, 16 and it is far less pretty than when they are 2, 3, 4, 5. But of course they kept it going for appearances.

You are young, you are clever, you are strong, you are probably beautiful. Move on my darling and give yourself a chance to find real happiness when you are still young enough to dust yourself down and start all over again.

Sorry - old gimmer talking and I admit I'm not great on the touchy feely stuff.

Hissy,

The problem with Internet advice is you get only a one dimensional view of a person and usually only the 'bad' side in the relationship is discussed.

But there is often a good deal of love and respect as well.

My dh, for example, does pretty much most of the housework except cooking (because I enjoy cooking). I have never asked him to do the work or thanked him, he just sees it as his responsibility. He makes morning tea and breakfast for us before he leaves for work and vacuums right after he comes home. And does all our laundry on the weekends.

For the longest time he put his career second to mine and travelled around the country to follow my work commitments, and gave up some promotions for flexibility.

He does lots of silly, thoughtful things like making sure he always has a packet of tissues in his pocket when we are out because my nose runs in the cold . Or picks up my favourite Thai on his way back from home without my asking or gets flowers for no reason at all.

Plus he makes me laugh a lot. He is witty and a good listener and we love chatting about all sorts of things

Ofcourse there are some relationships which are outright not tenable. But in many, many cases it is not as simple as LTB. It is a question of not letting the toxic stuff smother the positive, and building the relationship back to where you are both happy.

My advice to OP is to make a list of what she likes in the relationship and what she doesn't.

Does the good outweigh the bad?
If there are some deal breakers in the bad stuff, are these resolvable? Do you want to take the risk/make the effort?

When a child is treated like the way Merlot's ds was, all lists are useless.

There is NO reason to stay with a man like that, who sees no wrong in what he did, and who furthermore STILL blames Merlot. He's making her out to have the problem, calling her bahaviour unreasonable and blaming the situation on her upsetting herself.

Your H is a different animal to hers. Your experience is not really relevant. I appreciate there are times when it's important to weigh things up. This is not the time for that.

Violence against a child is insurmountable. This child is still so young, what happens when he hits 5, or 6, when they really start to dig their heels in, answer back, stand up for themselves? Will DrDastardly put his son through the door frame? The answer to that, in all probability, is yes.

This dynamic has ALL the signs of a relationship totally out of balance, and with areas that are deeply unhealthy.

Merlot feels better already. That's a sign in itself. That is ALL that should matter on this thread.

Merlot, ask your doctor for a referral to counselling ALONE. Do not go with your H to any therapy or counselling.

Do you have it in you to tell him it is time for him to leave again as soon as the dust settles on the funeral? You need to do this.

Please, please do not let your small child's response to seeing daddy again sway you. This child was pinned to the ground only a short time ago and it will be no time before something like this happens again, when your H decides it is time to test your mettle, see how much he can get away with. That phrase he used reveals that he feels pretty confident already that you are a doormat and he will soon be back ruling the roost. Second time round, an abuser likes to kind of rub it in because you both know what is going on so the ante needs to be upped, and you will really sense the contempt he has for someone who let him have that second chance.

Make an executive decision on behalf of your DS in other words (and on your own behalf too).

Women's Aid 0808 2000 247 -- call them.

Fucking hell. He doesn't want you thinking about it and upsetting yourself again. FUCK THAT

I am sorry that this person has died, but please don't let it cloud your judgement.

He has just proven, without a doubt, that he has not changed.

Please, please see that and send him back to his mothers.

I know DS has enjoyed having his Dad at home, but for how long? Kids enjoy lots of things that aren't good for them, it is our responsibility to keep them safe. DS would probably love riding on the bonet of the car - he'd be beaming from ear to ear - until he fell off...

Your family and friends do not know the life you have been living, they know what you present to the outside world. Perhaphs if you were honest about things (in detail) they would understand better and stop pressuring you to do something so fucking stupid as to take him back and try again at this stage (at all in fact, but especially at this stage).

If you take him back now - he will get worse, you will be giving him permission to act that way again and worse.

Don't let him stay

Hope you're ok today, Merlot.

I'm feeling very alone

I hope you know that, in the virtual world at least, you aren't alone, Merlot. You have an impossible situation on your hands with a bucketload of stress plus the grief and shock of this bereavement.

Take care of yourself, Merlot.

thinking about you and hoping you are being the clever strong woman that you are on here, and you're taking take of yourself

Thanks for your support.

I'm having a 'day off' from all this. Booked a last minute Spa day then spent the evening watching a funny film with a glass of wine. Feeling much better. Hopefully will get some sleep tonight.

Oh how lovely! Enjoy your and sleep well. We are here whenever.