Feel I am going to hurt someone who doesn't deserve it.

[ImFINEthanks]

I feel awful about this. I've been with my BF for just over a year. We both have grown DC's. Neither of us was OW/OM. We met online and the chemistry was instant (physically). We also share a sense of humour and many common interests musically and so on. We both have a strong sense of family values. Early on in the relationship he came on pretty strong and was very, very charming, a gentleman - spoiled me rotten in fact. I loved it, apart from my ex h he was my only lover in over 20 years. I went headlong in, as did he.

So. I moved a few months ago. I now have my own house. He moved in bit by bit. He has left his life where he lived, including his family, and his DC's have coped with the changes differently. One is fine. One is ok (ish) and the other's are furious. He has decided he won't waste any more time trying to please them. I try and encourage him not to give up and to stay in contact. He won't be seeing them at Christmas as they rowed when he saw them last.

I work full-time in a demanding and stressful job. He hasn't worked properly since I met him. He is self employed and the work just dried up. His house is just sold and the equity will be divided. He spends all day at home. We spend every day together. If I go to the shop he comes with me. If he goes to the shop he wants me to go with him. We sit, sometimes, in the evening and I am bored to tears. Money is an issue. We don't share the same ways of managing money. Because I know I'm not very good with it I plan, budget, want to save and so on. His is very much a spend it when you have it philosophy.

I am worried that I have made a mistake and I should have slowed things down and given the relationship a chance to grow more naturally. That's what I wanted and I never put any pressure on him to move here (but neither, sadly, did I challenge him enough when he literally turned up late one night with his stuff). I talked with him about this, but it's clear that this isn't going to go away unless I take full responsibility for the finances, and perhaps for other things too. I don't want to.

I know I share in the responsibility for the way things are. There are times when I look at him and I'm so glad we're together and other's (such as now) when I yearn for some space.

Cocklodgers are absolute geniuses at latching onto independent fair minded people pleasing women- who would never dream of sponging off someone else and who react immediately when someone says 'You're not being fair/ I thought you loved me/ I'm just going through a bad patch at the moment/ how can you be so selfish- I'd do the same for you'

I feel like we should have Cocklodgers Anonymous on here- my name is MAM and yes my last boyfriend was a CockLodge

OP, you said,

"She is getting more of the equity. In exchange he is paying the debts. (all of this is what he has told me)."

This doesn't make any sense at all, does it? She's getting the equity and he pays the debts?

I'm really sorry but I think he's taking you for a ride. He's thinking of starting a business. Do you know ANY successful business people (and by that I mean those that make a living from their business) who are lazy?

Do you mean neither he nor his wife worked?

You really can do better than this. I'm sure he's a nice bloke but he is a cocklodger - cocklodgers are usually nice because otherwise nobody would let them lodge their cock!

I'm being disrespectful by not talking to him more about my doubts. I haven't wanted to sound completely distrustful of him when I have nothing concrete to go on. It's not like we have this history which I can build a picture with, is it?

I'm going on face value all the time. And unless I ever get to talk to the DCs who are so angry or his exW I only have my feelings.

He cooks, cleans etc. Oh god. I know?.. it's the bare bloody minimum to expect if I'm out at work F/T and he's at home. But I want us to both be at work and both contributing. I was very clear at the beginning. I want someone who is solvent (not rich, just doing what most of the rest of us are doing).

We are just so different in our world views. That's the bit I can't change and I'm not about to change mine because I know where that will end.

I mean he earned a great deal in his field and didn't have to work f/t to do it. But it was patchy (sometimes very lucrative and sometimes not) and in the recession there is no work at all now.

No they are splitting the equity but from his half he is paying the debt.

I'm really sorry for being a bit all over the place. I am alone and I don't know what time he's coming home. So I keep going off line.

Yes it's hard to reject someone who is so 'nice'?.. I feel I can't even take that at face value now

What kind of self-employment does he do? Because I'm self-employed, and I am turning work down because there is plenty of it. Obviously it depends on his industry. But if there's no work, he needs to throw in the towel and do something else, end of.

I can't say but it's an industry which has become more and more 'do-able' by amateurs.

He has decided to throw in the towel. but he hasn't found other work yet. Hence the new business idea which is a transport based business. On his own.

Hang on. He expects to come everywhere with you, but now he's out and you don't know when he'll be back? On Christmas Eve?

"I'm being disrespectful by not talking to him more about my doubts."

No, you're not. You are a human being. You have the right to have doubts and feelings. You have the right to feel unable to discuss them with him. Whatever that is, it's not disrespect.

"I haven't wanted to sound completely distrustful of him when I have nothing concrete to go on. It's not like we have this history which I can build a picture with, is it?"

Exactly, which is why you shouldn't automatically trust him in the first place. Trust needs to be earned and built, not given blindly until you see reason to revoke it.

"I only have my feelings." And they are the ones that matter, OP.

"I was very clear at the beginning. I want someone who is solvent (not rich, just doing what most of the rest of us are doing)."

So don't tolerate anything else.

OP, we accept the love we think we deserve.

You deserve more.

Maya Angelou wrote: the first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

You are trying to disbelieve what you see in front of your own eyes. Okay, so your brain is making noises to rationalise it, but your heart knows better. And sometimes we pay too much attention to science and logic, and not enough to our feelings and instincts.

This is what I have learned from reading this thread.
You are not happy.
You feel like you should be happy.
You are therefore trying to convince yourself you are happy.

This is meant to be a relationship, not a prison sentence.

I'm staggered by how quickly and how accurately you have all picked up on how I'm feeling and the kind of person I am.

That's the beauty of being on the outside i guess. Thank you so much.

Hey, that's MN for you, full of people with emotional insight

Hmph. My industry is full of amateurs. I'm still working, because I make the effort to go out and get work - and I don't turn down offers of work because I don't feel like doing it. You said before that he had been offered work. But he didn't do it.

He needs to either go find another job (any job) or claim benefits. Except he can't, because he lives with someone who works, and the DWP would view you as being financially responsible for him and expect you to pay for everything. Do you really want that?

I am giving up, because I don't think you are going to hear anything I say. But I promise you something. Hell, I would bet money on this.

If you don't get rid of him now, you will look back - in one year, five years, ten years, who knows - and wish you had listened to the people who said you should.

p.s. sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you. I'm just so sad and frustrated for you. You are me, years ago. I can't go back and save myself. I wish I could, however, stop you making the same mistakes I did.

Well I think he's pissed off at me tbh.He must have picked up on my mood - he's very observant. He's gone to deliver presents to a DC.

OP, I want you to do something for me. You're going to need to write, so open something - a computer programme, a text message, anything.

Complete the following sentence in as many ways as you can:
I can't leave him because...

Then have a look at what you've written. And ask yourself if they are the right reasons.

No, you don't have to give up. I know what I'm going to do. I have listened. It's not going to work the way it is and he won't change - it's who he is. Don't feel frustrated for me, it's often said here that OP's post knowing what the responses are going to be. I just wanted to try and sound fair to us both.

Thank you.

I will jess and thank you all for giving up so much of Christmas Eve to me.

I will, I promise.

By "very observant" you mean he watches you like a hawk to make sure his meal ticket isn't getting too restive

So it will go one of two ways now if he is picking up on your dis-satisfaction

1. he will give you the hurt and silent treatment so you feel guilty at "upsetting" him

2. Mr NiceGuy will appear X10 so that you start to wonder why you ever questioned him (until the next time)

I wish you luck, OP. You deserve to be happy.

He might or he might not be a Cocklodger.
But even if he is not you dont seem a good match. When one has drive and the other doesn't (and he is SE) it can be very stressful and it will destroy the respect and the relationship anyway. Maybe this is what happened with his ex and his dcs.

Dear Imfine,
Please be careful, so much of what this man has told you just does not make sense.

What do the debts he has relate to, are they from his business? Yet you say he earned a great deal at one time.

Does he have any experience in the type of business he is planning to start?
He is hoping to use his share of the equity to pay off his debts and start a business, so it will need to be a substantial amount of money in that case.

Will it be a business that will proved enough money for him to contribute to your joint expenses from the first day of trading? If not, how long will he be expecting you to support him? Have you seen a business plan? Would a bank lend him the start up money? Can he get a govt. grant to start up? Has he looked into any of this?

I dont expect you to answer any of these questions; these are just some of the questions that you need answers to. Please do not involve any of your own money with his venture, nor agree to being a guarantor.

It's fine to bin a man for any reason whatsoever if you are unhappy in the relationship. At least you don't have DC with him and the house belongs to you. You can tell him to go, and if he refuses, you can call the police to put him out of the house.

Cocklodgers are always charming. Well, they alternate charm with whinyarse guilt-tripping in calculated proportions, but they are basically con artists.

AF

The silent treatment doesn't work with me. I know it's childish and controlling and i'm not interested. Similarly I know the charm offensive. And it doesn't blind me. I have asked myself and told myself time and time again these points you all have raised. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Either way, it doesn't look like we're matched in a really fundamental way?.that's why I've tried to be balanced about this.

The business. Yes he has some experience but again, it will all depend on the economy picking up in the housing market.

And no to all the rest!!

I will be fine, I know. It's just going to be sad and unpleasant and I'm not looking forward to that.

If I don't manage to pick this up over Christmas I shall post again when Christmas is over and I've sorted this out.

You're great.

Best of luck, love. You sound very sorted, but never forget these men (if we are right about him...and I think we are) are master manipulators and actually pride themselves on bringing the "sorted" ones low enough to cave into their manipulation.

And I am afraid that is exactly what you have done so far

Keep in touch x

Hello again.

I hope you all had a good Christmas.
I tried raising the DCs thing again. He has had further fallings out with the eldest most angry one (by text fgs). Eldest DC sent a text saying happy xmas from all of us. BF ignored it and see it as DC having yet another dig. i tried and tried to make him see that his DC must be devastated and feeling abandoned. BF knows all this apparently but now believes he has done enough and it's for his DC to accept change. Eventually BF asked me what he should do. I said stop seeing your DC as trying to wind you up, send him a nice text back (there's no way I'd have suggested that he actually speak to DC - he just won't) and let him know you are there for him, take his text at face value instead of seeing it as being nasty. It didn't happen.

I am really quite concerned that his ability to empathise with his own DS is so limited and I know that this is what I can (eventually) expect when I tell him I want some space.

I sound like I am justifying and rationalising in this thread, I take that on board. But actually you are right, I don't know him at all and that's why I don't trust him. I have tried to find out why his DS is so, so angry (I asked him if his DS believes that we had an affair and he said no, DS knows we didn't meet until months after the marriage broke down). But it just doesn't make sense to me that if BF can appreciate why his Ds is so upset he isn't willing to keep trying - talking to him, making things better. i would do anything if it was me and my DC's who were is such turmoil.

My unease has grown over Christmas. I am now wondering if he will just move out of his own accord when his equity is released in a couple of weeks. "That would be a merciful escape"! I can hear you all saying that. Am now re-thinking all the times we've had and I can't deny my feelings have radically changed.

Good lord, yes, that's disturbing. Wouldn't any natural parent seize on an olive branch from their precious first-born, rather than seeing it as an insult and refusing to speak to them? This man is peculiar. (Or maybe his son really is a wrong'un, but there's no reason to think so.)

I think you need to let Father of the Year know fairly soon that he will be using his money for accommodation when it comes in, and that he needs to start making plans - quick, before he commits it all to some money-spinning project that won't succeed (in the current climate, even a man who can be bothered to work would struggle to make a living that depended on the housing market, and he is not that man).

You had some good times together, now you know him better it is clear there is no long-term future in it, these things happen. At least you had some fun early on.