isolation

[Lisa]

I don't know if this strand is still going. But I am really lonely too. I go to my local NCT groups and have never really gelled with them. I also go to a group affiliated with a church, but can't find anyone to talk to there either.

My problem is that my baby was an accident, and I still haven't really gotten into the role of being a 'mum' yet. Most of my friends are still single and they don't come round to support me, I see them occasionally at weekends when I meet them (without the baby). I don't want to drop them as they are the only friends I have. I have already dropped one friend who referred to my baby as 'it' and to me as a 'mere housewife'. As a SAHM I feel even more isolated and a little jealous as I see my friends furthering their careers.

People see me as 'different' as I don't talk about babies all the time, I don't wear make-up or watch any soaps. I like to have fun still, get drunk sometimes, watch spooky movies, wear leather jeans and just be myself! Most of the mums I've met so far live in big houses with massive gardens, their husbands have good jobs, they are planning to return to work, they act as though they are old before their time, even though some are just my age (29). I live in a little 2up 2down with just a small backyard. I feel that I have nothing in common with them and I can see that they think I am a little weird and so avoid me.

I would set up a group but what would I call it? The Different Mothers Group? Working-Class Mothers Unite? I do still go to these groups as I don't want to deprive my baby of social interaction. I love her to bits. But inside I feel so lonely sometimes and just wish I had a friend that could pop round for a cup of tea.

Don't know what I'm asking for here, I just wanted to gripe I guess.

Lisa, just to let you know you are not alone. I do think that isolation can go with the territory. It isn't inevitable but it is wide spread.

It is sad that you have made such an effort and still feel like you don't fit it. Unfortunately I don't have the answer as you seem to have been doing the things that I would have suggested. I too felt very isolated on becoming a Mum,with my first baby eleven years ago and with my second baby now almost eight months. My answer on both occassions was to decide to return to work, but I know from other threads that this would not be for you. (Furthermore, returning to work is not going to help me with the needing friends with babies the same age etc., It is, for me personally, simply about contributing financially to the household and keeping a sense of self.) I appreciate that it is not for everyone.

You are doing a great job, you obviously love your little girl very much. Don't let cosmetic things (like the size of someones house) matter.

Being a parent is far from easy however one has come to it and from experience the difficulties involved in having a baby disperse to be replaced with difficulties in having a toddler, a pre school child, a pre-teen etc. But each stage has wonderful points and it is ssssssoooooooo worth it! The point is, if there was a book to make it easy someone would be making a fortune. Everyone is individual and has to approach parenthood in the way that they feel is best for them. 'Getting into the role' of a Mum does not happen over night and to be absolutely honest I only began to feel completely at ease with motherhood as my daughter reached double figures. Being able to look at the smart, beautiful, together girl I was finally able to say that I must be doing something right! Then I discovered I was pregnant with my son and my life was turned upside down once again!

As for feeling so different this is a good thing. Be yourself. Who wants to be like everyone else?

Sorry not to have any concrete advice but I just wanted you to know that you really are not alone in feeling isolated.

Thank goodness for Mumsnet!

Lisa, I can totally relate to where you're coming from. My daughter is now 20 months old and I'm back at work full-time and have been since she was 11 months old (went back part time when she was 6 months). I, too, went to the NCT classes locally and never seemed to fit in with them and, like you, my daughter was unplanned. I had also only recently moved to this area when I discovered I was pregnant so never had the chance to make any new friends.

In fact, I often hope that one day I will miraculousy meet someone in our local park when we go there at night just so I won't feel quite so alone. I have to say, I do still struggle and feel isolated at times so I'm not sure I have much advice to offer only to say that you're definitely not alone in feeling that way.

I hope we both meet some like-minded mothers soon!

Lisa, I too don't have any answers. I echo what Winnie says - just be yourself. There is no formula way to be a mother (if there was, would mumsnet exist?). I too felt (and still do feel sometimes,)isolated and unsure of myself.

As for your unsupportive childless friends perhaps they too havn't adjusted to the idea of you being a mother yet. You are right not to give up on them. And, if they are in their late 20's like you, it's likely that some will be mothers themselves in the next few years, even if they scoff at the idea now. Then see how they'll seek you out!

But of course that doesn't help right now. Can you arrange baby sitting so that you can still be the same old you with them every now and again? Then see how it goes. In the end they must give a little as well. Friendships and friends change over time. They must accept this.

As for adjusting to the role of being a mother: This gave me lots of grief too. In the end I decided I had to be selfish to preserve some sanity!

Rather than seeing things in terms of my baby's needs, entertainment and routine first, my needs, entertainment and routine second, I decided my young baby son would have to fit his life around mine - at least sometimes. No on-the-dot nap times, changing times or feeding times at home. Lots of it was done on the run, as and when. As long as we were both reasonably happy.

It's amazing how many places you can take a baby to: markets, cafes, shops, musical events - and many classes and sports activities have creche facilities. Just decide what you want to do, then and only then, work out how you can do it with your baby. OK not everything is possible, or you may try something once and it may be too much hassle. Just don't feel that every minute of your life has to revlove around your baby's routine. Going on my own experience, I think it's an easy trap to fall into and often ends in tears.

Lastly, and off at a tangent, I've found that since I've joined mumsnet, I'm far more more ready to start conversations with other mothers that I meet in passing. Even it is a quick one-minute chat. I am happily surprised at the friendly responses - mostly! You can't win them all.

Do keep posting Lisa. You are not alone.

Lisa,you sound so like I feel, reading your message I feel that I could have written it myself. I could especially identify with the bit about the big house and massive garden. I live in a terrace with a small back yard and am a mere SAHM. All you can do is be brave and talk to as many people as possible as there has to be someone locally who shares your feelings.They probably see you as managing well and loving every minute of motherhood. One thing that I have recently found out is that mums are very good at putting on facades for each other and noone gets it right all the time or feels 100% always. The NCT wasn't my thing either but have found a group called 135 which has been good also check if there is a toy library in your area.Story time at the library is a good way to meet others, and yes babies can go. Do you live in London ? There are a number of good books about activities going on, I don't know about other areas, try your local library for ideas. Good luck, hope things get better soon, but rest easy you are not alone, just brave enough to admit that life is not in fact a bowl of cherries......

Thanks everyone for your support! I guess I wasn't really looking for any answers, as I know there aren't any, I just felt a bit out of place and fed-up.

I wish I did live in London, Bee, as there seems to be so much going on for mothers down there, but I live in Preston - is anyone else from Lancashire? I don't drive either, so that is such a set-back when you have kids isn't it?

I know that I shouldn't let material things get me down, but it does get to you doesn't it? I have agreed to hold an NCT meeting in my house (this is me trying to fit in again!) and now I regret saying 'yes', most of my daughter's toys are second-hand and she doesn't have a lot, I don't have a porch for them to leave their prams and I've no swings or anything for them to play on if it's a nice day. You don't realise just how little money you have until you see the way others are living. I hope that I won't be judged by them, but I still feel embarassed about how little we have.

As for being different, yes I know this should be a good thing, but when you are feeling lonely you would give anything to be more like other people, more confident, practical, baby-loving, etc.

I do love my little girl to bits, I had such a bad time during the pregnancy as she was an accident, I tried to harm myself and thought terrible things about the baby. But I have had treatment and now I wouldn't turn the clock back. My husband is very supportive, I just wish he could be here more often! But no matter how much I love my daugher, I just can't hold a conversation about nappies or childbirth for more than 5 minutes! Of course, I could talk about my baby all day, but no-one really wants to hear that for more than 5 minutes either!

Even though I take her to lots of activities (I will start going to the Library's StoryTime sessions), I don't gain anything from this. Sometimes I will go a whole day without talking to anyone. Since I saw Mumsnet I've hardly stopped! Just taking part in some of the discussions is great - I can now talk about things that don't include babies! So whoever thought this site up deserves a medal, just a pity our phone bill will be so high!

I'll keep trying and maybe as she gets a bit older I can do more things with her. Thanks again for the support.

Lisa, the money thing is hard. I understand completely about the feeling judged aspect too but at the end of the day anyone who judges you in these terms really doesn't deserve your attention. Don't be so hard on yourself. You have obviously come a very long way in a very short space of time with regards to your feelings about being pregnant. Well done you! I would echo Tigermoths advice about not letting the baby always rule your life, you must do things for yourself too. Good luck.

P.S. Just remember that lots of the people we meet in life who seem super confident, brilliant mothers, etc., are very often simply putting on an act and are as nervous and unsure about new situations etc. as you and I.

Lisa, forget anyone who judges you on your material possessions and house size, that's just shallow and superficial. Personally I envy anyone who can spend so much time with their little ones, yes, I could stop work but there are financial considerations, I need to work for another year (financial security not possesions). My little one has a lot of toys, mainly because I come from a large family so she gets lots of Christmas/Birthday gifts, however, I find she gets most fun playing with my Tupperware or just a large cardboard box. Also I think you'll find most Mum's do buy second hand toys/clothes.

It amazes me how many mothers here are admitting the same feelings I had/have. Whilst on M/L I didn't make any new friends with new babies (there were over 25 in my antenatal class and it was very cliquey as many of the girls already knew each other) and a lot of the time I felt out of my depth with the whole 'new mum' experience. Having someone with a baby the same age at the same time would have helped enormously. Yet I still have those same feelings 2 years on, my friends are either childless or their children are a lot older. I went to a close friend's BBQ the other week and had a disastrous time, chasing my 2 year old trying to keep her in the (open) garden and out of harms way, at the same time trying to avoid any terrible-two's tantrums, also trying to hold about 5 conversations at once. I went home vowing never to attend another social situation until she's at least 10!!

Keep trying those different babies/toddler clubs and the library, go at about the same time on the same day of the week if you can. You never know one day some other mother will also let her guard down a bit and chat, the hard thing is starting the process off............

Lisa, I can only endorse Springs comments, and that people shouldn't as my DH would say "don't judge somebody by the arse of their trousers!!", genuine people don't go to someones house to judge them, if they are real then it doesn't matter what your house, garden or daughters toys are like. As long as you are both healthy and happy thats all that matters.

As everyone has said, Lisa you are not alone. I have never had a large clique of friends and since having my babes I don't think I have ever felt so lonely.

I think we do lose alot of confidence socially after having them. I was the first of my friends to have a baby, first to have second and now first to have a third. I always feel slightly out of it as now the friends I do have (mainly acquaintances and friend's friends) their children are younger than mine and at different stages.

I am also with you on the house front. I actually dropped out of an NCT post-natal group because we lived in a small one bedroom, no garden flat. There wouldn't have been room for everyone. We now live in a small two bedroom flat and have a small garden, thank God, but its far from perfect, we have to move my youngests cot out of her brothers room during the day so there is at least a bit of floor space for them to play! Only one of my friends has been to visit (probably twice) in two years. We had to move away from my little network because we couldn't afford to buy anything in our old area. I always end up going there because it's nicer. Now I'm in the same situation again, we are going to have to move to accomodate no.3 and that means further away from people I already know. Why are house prices in London so expensive. I am the only person I know who lives in a flat! Aren't there any other parents in the same situation. My husband is a wonderful dad and he tries his best on the husband front. He just doesn't understand how lonely I am. He is also the least materialistic person I know and although I don't want/need much I can't believe how much money some of the people I know have. It immediately sets you apart. I don't want people to feel sorry for me, not invite me because they think I won't be able to afford it. I didn't go back to work after no.2 as a teacher I would have earned my childcare and not much more.

I think you are doing really well going to these places. I have bursts when I do quite alot and I too dream of meeting a kindred spirit. Reading these messages has made me think I must make more of an effort again. I think people think of me as confident and capable and most of the time I feel far from it.......Thanks for listening I feel better for having written all this down. Its been a bit of a whinge I know......

Lisa, it sounds as though you are a perfectly adequate mum, just like the rest of us! What you say reminds me a bit of when my first baby was born and we were really poor. I have these inadequate mother crises too - help! Ive never taken them swimming, its too expensive - I'm really bad at making mooing and crowing noises when we read Teddybears in the Farmyard - etc. It's really sad, but the first time I discovered Dettox spray on disinfectant for highchair surfaces etc, I went around spraying it everywhere feeling smugly like a perfect Mum at last!
I think the best thing to do is just concentrate on doing the things you do well, and not worry about other mothers' style. Not at this age anyway.
Look on the bright side: being poor really sorts out your acquaintances! So you don't waste any time with people who judge you by your house. Loads of parents of young children go through a poor phase, hopefully things will improve in a few years!
Why not look at what your local CFE has to offer? Mine had part time courses and a subsidised creche, with brilliant staff and masses of toys, my daughter really loved her one day a week there while I studied.

lisa, i wondered if you were the same lisa as the sandpit one...we moved to lancs from london via new york, we already had our toddler (then 18 months) and i didn't know anybody...for some reason it took our HV 3 months to pick up on us but she then put me in touch with a couple of other incomers and a nice toddler group and we made lots of friends there.
as it happened they ALL had big houses and gardens (because this is that sort of town - lots of professional people move here) and their husbands were all doctors and headteachers and senior lecturers and that kind of thing but the fact that we live in a terraced house really didn't matter - generally we went to their houses because they had more space and it made more sense.
i have since met people who, i can detect, look down on us because of where we live but now i couldn't care less...i might have then but i don't now.
there must be lots of mums like you in preston but your problem is going to be finding them...have you asked your HV? they are not all dragons and can be very understanding and helpful. mine always was, and she used to send me to other newcomers later - i bet yours knows other people who you would get on with. try her!
would you like my email address? i'm not so far from you - if you want i could come over and see you sometime...(but, i should warn you, i am much older than you but then we don't prejudge people, do we...???)

Hi Lisa, just wanted to add another voice saying you are definitely not alone, I posted a similar messsage to yours on another thread under Relationships a week ago. As others have said, just be yourself, you are a great person just as you are and your baby loves you just for being you. It can be difficult meeting people and making new friends, I am still going through that stage and a lot of people that seem to be aloof and stand-offish are probably feeling just the same as you deep down inside.
Take no notice of people who judge you by the second-hand clothes or toys you buy; they are just not worth knowing. I work part-time but still don't have loads of money to splash out on buying lots of toys, and I have no problem going into the charity shops as there are always bargains to be had!
Anyway, just carry on being yourself, learning to be a Mum doesn't happen overnight, it takes months/years - I remember how totally inadequate I felt for ages after my son was born - but things will get better for you.

I feel overwhelmed here by the kindness I'm sensing! Thank you all so much! Yes Janh, I am the same Lisa as the sandpit! Whereabouts do you live? My email is [email protected] if you want to get in touch.

My HV is sadly a dragon too. She never has time for me, never returns my calls, and when I asked her about baby groups when I first had my daughter, she failed to tell me about ANY. Does anyone have a good HV?

I do try to keep busy, today is quiet but the rest of the week I have groups I can go to. In reality I wouldn't be friends with these people, but I need to go for my daughter's sake, she doesn't want to be stuck in the house with a miserable mother! I think most of my problem is that I don't drive, if I had my own transport I could be a lot more mobile and visit my family in Oldham. As it is, I rarely get to see them!

Pity we don't all live in the same area, I could start an Isolated Mothers group! Good to know there are decent people out there who don't judge. I'm probably being paranoid, but you get like that don't you?

Thank you Mumsnet!

Lisa
Good for you for organising an NCT meeting. Don't be embarrassed about your social situation or the quality of your toys. How on earth will people know they are second hand?
In my NCT group we are a real mixed bunch and we are still meeting up every week 20months after our babies were born. One of the women lives in a £2m house and one of the others lives in a one bedroom flat. However, we all have our children in common and we have a laugh. More often than not the kids don't play with the toys anyway they are more interested in kitchen utensils, remote controls, keys etc.
I felt isolated initially too. It is a strange transition from independent working person to parent. I have gone back to work part-time and loved it but I know that may not be an option for everyone. However, before I went back to work I went to library groups, swimming groups, YMCA groups, mother and baby groups and church organised groups. You name it, I tried it. After a few times, I was able to work out whether they were "me" or not.
I really hope you find some kindred spirits - they must be out there somewhere.

Lisa, just to add my 2ps worth because although I live in London, with reasonable public transport, I don't drive either and it does cut you off, I know what you mean. Like you and others here, I did somehow think that my postnatal groups (NCT and health centre - yes, I had a good health visitor, until I moved house...)would be full of people just like me and I'd make wonderful new friends, and our children would all be friends for life. Well, I did make two good friends and very glad of them I am. Sadly one of them has just moved to Germany. But I also met about 25 people I would not choose to spend time with, for various reasons, and it was clear the feeling was mutual. You feel so desperate to fit in when you're a new mum, all of it is such a shock to the system, that you always assume it's your fault if you don't get on with the others. You and me and all the others here who have posted similar know different of course. You sound to me like you're doing all the right things, and if you haven't made good friends yet through your mum & baby activities, you will soon. Maybe at playgroup or at the school gates?
Also, you could try Meet a Mum, which aims to put isolated mums in touch with each other.
Patron is apparently Esther Rantzen but I am sure you wouldn't have to meet her...

Dear Lisa, just a note of solidarity from someone who planned the kids, has a lovely partner, nice home and still can't get it right- I was having an almighty rant just the other day on Mumsnet (no, don't look for it, it's pathetic) about people you see every day who can't even manage to nod. Maybe you're new group might lead to a pool of babysitters - then you could have a little grown-up time too (driving lessons/film club/sport/quiz nite at the pub?). Thumbs up.

marina, could you put that Meet a Mum link on the "is depression taken seriously enough?" thread for peaches? i think she could do with it too!

I always noticed that parent and toddler groups were nearly always on a week day, and if you go on your day off, the parents who don't work who go nearly everyday, kind of lock you out if you see what I mean. I only went a couple of times on my days off and gave up.

And it was nearly all women which I couldn't understand. I do like lots of different people to talk to.

jbr, i think you must live on a different planet from the rest of us - why don't you understand why most of the adults at toddler groups are women?

Hi Lisa, how about asking if you could help out at the toddler group by making the tea or helping to set up or help organise Bumps and Babies for the NCT (tell people you want to meet people!) You'd meet lots of people this way and it would fill some time.

I buy lots of things for both my children which are second hand and I'm quite proud of some of our boot sale bargains.

Anyone that judges you by the size of your home is not worth talking to.

Why don't I understand? Well I just don't!! We have lots of dads in this area, who on finding themselves unemployed felt pushed out, at this gaggle of women sitting around. And the reason they felt left out is because it is assumed that only women would go to parent and toddler groups. Actually, it is only lately that some of the names got changed. A lot around here are still called "Mother and Toddler" groups. The one at our doctors was only changed after I complained. Ok, no men are going but the change in title might encourage them to go on their days off or whatever.

jbr, why not start your own group? "lots of different people and toddler group"?

sitting around chatting to other parents over coffee, surrounded by their kids, is not something most of the men i've ever come across would choose to do, unemployed or not...