isolation

[Lisa]

I don't know if this strand is still going. But I am really lonely too. I go to my local NCT groups and have never really gelled with them. I also go to a group affiliated with a church, but can't find anyone to talk to there either.

My problem is that my baby was an accident, and I still haven't really gotten into the role of being a 'mum' yet. Most of my friends are still single and they don't come round to support me, I see them occasionally at weekends when I meet them (without the baby). I don't want to drop them as they are the only friends I have. I have already dropped one friend who referred to my baby as 'it' and to me as a 'mere housewife'. As a SAHM I feel even more isolated and a little jealous as I see my friends furthering their careers.

People see me as 'different' as I don't talk about babies all the time, I don't wear make-up or watch any soaps. I like to have fun still, get drunk sometimes, watch spooky movies, wear leather jeans and just be myself! Most of the mums I've met so far live in big houses with massive gardens, their husbands have good jobs, they are planning to return to work, they act as though they are old before their time, even though some are just my age (29). I live in a little 2up 2down with just a small backyard. I feel that I have nothing in common with them and I can see that they think I am a little weird and so avoid me.

I would set up a group but what would I call it? The Different Mothers Group? Working-Class Mothers Unite? I do still go to these groups as I don't want to deprive my baby of social interaction. I love her to bits. But inside I feel so lonely sometimes and just wish I had a friend that could pop round for a cup of tea.

Don't know what I'm asking for here, I just wanted to gripe I guess.

Hey Lisa! I think you can definitely say you're not alone now with THIS sort of response! It's a shame that I moved from Preston just 19 months ago and I would have been just as isolated as you there (that said I didn't have internet access so it would have been v unlikely of us ever meeting!) Still, I know how you're feeling, it's really odd when you're the only 'Mum' in the circle of friends. It's really hard for people to remember the lifestyle changes you have to, and want to, make: For example - my non-parent friend recently asked me if I'd like to go on her hen-weekend to Sardinia next month! Yeah, of course I'd love to, I'll just get my Mum (no partner - left him in Preston funnily enough, but that's another story!)to babysit my toddler for a couple of nights while I swan off on my hols, it'll be fine, I'll spend the child benefit on that rather than nappies, no problem - when are we going?!! AS IF!!! I think the best way to approach situations like that is to laugh - not cry - remember what it's like NOT to have baby, to be in their situation - then remember what it's wonderfully, mind-blowingly like to have gorgeous baby who you love more than any holiday, any job, anything they have in their lives, remember you've got one tiny, cute thing better!!

It's a really tough one meeting new Mums in the area, one of my tricks was to join a gym (it's actually in the local leisure centre) believe me I'd never been to a gym in my life until now but basically they run different classes through the week ( step, body-conditioning etc) and 3 of those classes, in the mornings, they run a creche so I got chatting to Mum's from there and now after the class we have a coffee together in the leisure centre. This usually takes up the entire morning and there are all sorts of different women there. I'm also a bit fitter and get a break from my lttle one for a hour! I'd go and enquire, like I say I'd never ventured to one in my life but I really enjoy it now, are you in the centre or in Bamber Bridge or Longridge or somewhere?

Janh, indeed I did put it up for Peaches as I wasn't sure she'd spot it here. I hope they can help both mumsnetters and others too for that matter.

Me too. Spent ages yearning for a 'soul-mate' friend when mine were babies, wasted too much time trying to fit in to groups where the other mums obviously thought I was 'different'. I don't actually think it works just to meet lots of mums, bump into people in the park etc - you can exhaust yourself and end up feeling a failure.
I use to dream of a network of drop-in centres for the absolutley desperate times (usually mid-evening - my kids didn't sleep much and my husband worked late), just a warm room somewhere with coffee and a human being there to say hello to. Thought about starting a 'Pyjama club' for all us isolated mums meeting 4pm-7pm in eachothers' houses. Never met anyone else who admitted they needed it!
If I had to do it again, I would just go for it and advertise (anonymously) to start a group for unconvential mums (the language is a problem), call it a funny name, have rules like no talking about curtains, no mention of expensive weekend breaks in posh hotels (sorry mumsnet), everone to wear old leggings and baggy teeshirts and no-one to criticise anyone elses cafetiere, which happened to me when I didn't even know it was called a cafetiere.
Another idea - for people who look enviously at the local church community but don't have the straightforward Christian belief - what about Quakers, they seem to be very accepting and the ones I know are all lovely people. And they have creches....
I never found a soul-mate but discovered that my old pre-kids friends are still around now my kids are older (6 and 3) and I can see them again and pretend not to be a mum!

To all of you; Joining groups etc. is a good idea, but there are some of us that get fed up of making polite conversation with people that in reality are never going to become lifelong friends.
My daughter is 4 and goes to school full time, yet despite seeing all the mothers at the school gates every morning, I always seem to end up walking back home on my own with nothing to do when I get back. I also have a 2 year old.
I suppose what I really need to do is pluck up courage to ask someone back for coffee, and stop assuming nobody wants to get to know me !! I also think that if you feel lonely and miserable (as I do)you maybe give off 'leave me alone i don't want to talk to anyone signals' Having read and felt encouraged by all your messages I'm going to make more of an effort to smile, say hello and start a conversation with people. Maybe we could all try it!!

Yes, When I was on maternity leave the second time around, I well remember feeling disappointed how difficult it was to get past the casaul chatting stage with other parents at the school gates. I would drop off my older son, try and give out really friendly vibes, smiles, hellos etc. Often they would be returned, sometimes we would chat, but nothing else. Our house was so tiny that I felt a bit inhibited asking the regular school-gaters round for coffee. And they never asked me! So there I was, walking home alone again with my baby. Yet these parents knew my son was in the same class as their child and had been for quite a while. I put it down to the fact that they assumed I would be returning to work, so it wasn't worth getting to know me. So I didn't bother agonising over it.

When we moved - a 15 minute drive away - I eagerly gave out our new address and phone number to the parents of my son's school friends. I was worried my son would feel he was losing his best school playmates, since he was changing schools, so I suggested to their parents that perhaps we could meet up in the park sometimes. At the time my son was having to cope with a new baby brother, the sudden illness and death of his grandmother, living in a new area and starting a new school. I wanted to give him some consistency, and without getting heavy about it, I intimated this to his friend's parents. Not a phone call!!I organized it once but it petered out. We no longer counted because my son was not at the school. Just as well my son has made a new set of friends.

I'm not too good with mother's groups either. Never went to many because I was going back to work. My mother friends tend to be old friends who now have children. Some hardly seen for years until I looked them up again after becoming a mother myself. So get out your address books everyone!! Even if your friend lives a long way away, a weekend break catching up on things and meeting their children can be lovely.

Also, get your partner working on this too. My husband tends to home in on other parents or mothers on my behalf, and he's very good at organising introductions.

I have to say, I have a few good friends locally and I usually don't feel too isolated now, but I did, and it was horrible.

Lisa, so glad you're finding mumsnet supportive - I have to say I've been moved by all the messages of support and empathy ( but then again I am pregnant and everything makes me weep a little...). I also find Talk addictive - and my one tip is get yourself connected to a cheap internet provider (if that's the right technical term - you know what I mean). I'm now with cable and it only costs me £10 a month, whereas it was costing a fortune with a regular BT line before I switched and making me feel guilty into the bargain. Has anyone else come across a good deal that allows them to chat on to their heart's content without emptying the family coffers? Sorry it's a bit of a tangent, but hate to think of us all bankrupting ourselves - albeit in a good cause.

Cl - I'm investigating one called Comundo, it gives you 30mins of free internet access every day, 1p per minute phone calls and no subscription fee - I'm calling them after I've been on this. Anyone heard of them?

Thanks again for the messages of support! The problem with some of these baby groups is that they all seem to meet in the afternoons, and my baby is still sleeping for 2 hours every afternoon, so I can't break her routine just yet.

I understand what Tireless is saying about approaching people - I'm not very good at that! I'm very quiet and never know how to start a conversation. If I click with someone then it's great, but for instance, today I went to a baby and toddler group and sat next to a mum I've seen a couple of times, after the initial smiles and 'hello', we both fell quiet, I didn't know what to say to her next! Sometimes my mind goes blank and I just end up staring at the floor or hiding behind my own baby! There are very few people that I really 'gel' with and I'm afraid to say that mothers are pretty much bottom of that list. I don't know why, maybe because they seem older than me, or more confident, whatever.

Oh and JBR - the group I went to today is for everyone - mums, dads, grandparents, childminders, etc, but there was only one man there, and he was one of the organisers! But I do know what you mean, my husband would never go to one because they are all women, if there was a fathers and babies group he might well go along. I'm sure there are lots of dads out there who are the main carers and would love such a group to go to. A unisex one doesn't work as they would only separate into their own sexes anyway.

I guess having a young baby is just so limiting, especially when you have them in a routine. I just have to accept that my social life is not going to be as good as it was, and hopefully when she's at school I can start doing things for me again. I'm really glad others have found this thread as supportive as I have. As Tireless said, we must just keep smiling at people and maybe it will work one day!

Lisa
if you can't think of anything to say to the person next to you at a toddler group, try admiring her baby! She's bound to find this something worth talking about. You can go a long way praising other people's kids. Most people really like to have someone take an interest in them - and who knows, she may even start to take an interest in you!

Pease, please, please don't feel you have to wait until your child is at school before you can do things for you again, Lisa. That's 4 whole years away!! Re-read some of these messages to see how you can try to get some 'me-time'.

OK as you say, your social life suffers. You can't do things on impuse half so easily. You're tired - and tied. But few mothers I know totally structure their lives around a home-based baby rountine. You can break out.

Obviously I don't know what sort of sleeper your baby is, but if she will sleep for two hours each afternoon in a cot, wouldn't she also have a long nap in a comfy pushchair? So if you want to go out, you have an afternoon's worth of me-time. If afternoons are not the best time to attend parent and child groups because your baby sleeps, you could always arrange to go out with your sleeping baby and meet a friend who's free during the day. Or go to an exhibition, museum,pub beer garden, library, window shop (many shopping malls are well-provided with baby change facilities), sunbathe in the park with your baby sleeping under a shady tree. Whatever you like to do....

Sorry if I sound a bit strident, but I hate to think of anyone believing all life as you know it has to stop when a baby comes along.

I'd second Tigermoth's message. With a little planning you can get out and about with a baby and do lots of things!

It can be hard to break into something like a Mother and Baby group. But we were all new mums once and had to go through the process of making friends. I've moved around quite often and eventually realised that I was the one who had to make the effort, not them. But I also learnt that I don't have to be friends with everyone I meet and it's fine to just be on nodding terms with folk.

A little tip for getting chatting to people is to ask questions that require an answer, rather than just a yes or no reply. Asking 'How?' 'What?' 'Where?' 'Who?' is more likely to get a response than 'Are?' or 'Do?'. For example, the reply to 'Are you new here?' will probably be just a yes or no.
But asking 'How long have you been coming here?' might elicit the response 'This is my second week' or 'I've been coming for five years'. You can then say something like 'This is my first week, so we're both pretty new.' or 'You must know everyone here! This is my first week, so I don't know anyone.' With luck, conversation can carry on from there. Hope that all makes sense!

It's also worth introducing yourself and your baby by name to other people. It helps others to remember you and hopefully they will introduce themselves to you, too.

Yeah Chairmum good advice, I've always found it easy to talk to anyone really, sometimes it's not reciprocated but I just carry on regardless, it does no harm! I found it easier to talk to peolple with babies of similar ages by bringing in a simple comment followed by a question like "Oh, I can't believe how much baby woke up throught the night last night, I think she's getting a cold, is your little one sleeping through yet?" and take it from there, I find it's much easier sticking to baby-talk for a while because you know you've got that in common. Even things like "ooo that dress you've got on so-and-so is lovely, where did you get it?" - which you CAN say without actually MEANING! Maybe it's just the salesperson in me, it never completely goes away y'know!!!
I also agree that you can't wait til she's 4 yrs old to get out and about!

Lisa, as everyone else has said please don't put your own life on hold. You are a person too! Best wishes

Yeah, I take on board what you are all saying - I should get a life! No seriously, I do try and do 'me things', but I haven't quite got the knack of 'have baby will travel' yet. It's a good idea to go into town with her asleep in the pram, I might try that. I am planning to go and meet an old schoolfriend in Oldham on my own on Sat, leaving hubby to look after her all day (should be fun!). But I do miss social conversations, going to work and moaning about this and that. I can't go to work now until she starts school. Sometimes, even when I go into town, I can go all day without having a conversation with someone.

I might give MAMA a go - does anyone have any experience of them? I'm much better on a one-to-one basis with people, baby groups do tend to intimidate me. I went to NCT coffee group today and there was only me and the host there, normally we don't get past the nodding to each other stage, but today we talked quite well. I did have to make a real effort and there were some uncomfortable silences - her boy is nearly 3 so he's a lot older than mine and I spent nearly all morning trying to protect her from his rough playing. We'll not become friends, but at least I had a conversation with her.

Reading these tips and knowing that you have all gone through the same thing is actually helping. I don't feel quite so isolated and I am prepared to try more. I know babies can be used as conversation starters, but they're also good for hiding behind - which is what I was doing!

Hi Lisa,Im not too far from you I live in Aintree liverpool.My dd is 13mths old and I relate to a lot of what you say. I have never tried NCT so I cant really comment but have you tried tumble tots or is your baby not old enough yet. They can start from 6mths . I think you will find that as your baby gets older and more active you will find any activies more enjoyable. I know that for the first 8mts of dds life it was really hard and a struggle to take her any where.she was quite unsettled and I prefered to hide away at home .
I tried going out for lunch with my sister several times but it never worked .Baby would get restless and cry etc.

Now she is 1 she is walking and playing and v active. She loves tumble tots and so do I . I look forward to the chat with oter mums who I have got to Know. We dont meet outside of TT but I dont feel under pressure to ask because that interaction once a week is enough at least. If a lasting frieenship comes out of it then great but if not we all meeting every tuesday chatting and comparing sleepless nights fussy eaters etc.
Give it a try.

I don't know all your home circumstances, but i have just moved into a small village with my 4 and 2 year old, thinking that this would be an ideal set-up for all the family with all the village events and everybody knowing each other etc.
But this has actually proved to be more isolating than the town i previously came from. Does anyone else live in a village and can they tell me how long it takes before people start to 'accept' you and get past the 'hello and quickly walk on' stage that i am experiencing from the people who have lived here longer than me
I try hard to make conversation, but people are at most 'polite' (I have lived here for 18 months now)

tireless, moving to a new place is always hard and if it's a small settled community it's even harder...you mentioned in your earlier message that maybe you need to invite people first and you probably do, but before you do that, does your school have a pta or a friends association? because if you got involved with that you could get to know people first (meetings tend to be in the evening without kids) and you would have a better idea who you'd like to invite.

it is daunting when you first go into meetings etc, because they mostly know each other and you don't, but you don't have to say much (except to volunteer for a duty or 2) to work out who you might get on with.

when your first child starts school the building, staff, other parents etc all seem strange and overwhelming but the more time you spend there the easier it is...does your school welcome parent helpers? is there anybody you could leave your 2-yr-old with for 30 minutes or so while you went in to help? (could your husband go into work late one day a week?) then you would get to know the building, staff etc - and keep an eye on what happens with your older child - you would be building relationships and getting more confidence in yourself in the community.

it must be awful feeling so left out but, as has been said before, it's up to you to put out feelers and try not to take it personally if you pick the wrong prson and get rebuffed - everybody isn't welcoming and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you! good luck!

Tireless - do you tend to walk around a lot, or go mostly by car? We live in a (very small) town, and my just 2 and nearly 4 year old are pretty friendly and will talk to anyone. Also, I don't drive, so we walk everywhere, and are out and about two or three times a day. If the children take an interest in someone's garden, or fish, or extension building, or whatever it is, then we stop and chat to them. Now, it's got to the stage that it takes half an hour to do a ten minute pop to the shops, if you catch my drift, while they stop and chat to all their friends on the way.

If you really want to get to know neighbours, why not have an 'open house' afternoon, or a Barbecue, or invite people round for a drink. Just drop some invites in the houses along your road. This is so seldom done nowadays in (dare I say it) The South, that you may find they are all shocked into coming, and you becoming lifelong buddies ...

Tireless, in my experience it depends on the village, but the following suggestions are the sort of things you might like to consider. Do you go to church? This is often a main social point in rural areas, and organises most of the social events eg fetes and other fund raising parties, or children's activity weeks at the local school during the summer hols - volunteers always needed to help supervise the children and teach interesting things. ( if there's a Sunday school, you get an hour's peace at the weekend as well - can't be bad!). Other things might include the local political parties, who may have a committee that organises social events as part of their fund raising, or local charities. If the political parties haven't got a village branch, they'd probably be only too keen for someone to start one. There's bound to be some organisation that puts on a fete in your village - volunteer your help! Bake a cake, run the teas, do the plant stall.... Who organises the annual Bonfire night party? Is there a village panto? Is there a flower and produce show in the summer - find out about it now and enter a few competitions! Is there a Womens' Institute? Is there a village school who would welcome extra help during term times? Is there a local riding school where you could take your children for lessons? (Pony Club, gymkhanas...you've never found a quicker way of draining your wallet!)What does the local pub do in the way of entertainment, eg folk music evenings? Does the Mobile Library visit the village - choosing books is a real ice breaker, great for meeting people! Try the library in your local town for notices of local societies as well.Hope you find at least some of these things attractive in principle - if you do them all, your bemused neighbours will think that Linda Snell has come among them!
The other thing is that villagers are used to seeing townies come and go, hiking up house prices, gentrifying farms into weekend cottages and complaining about nasty tractors leaving mud on the road, and there can as a result be some resentment of newcomers. Maybe this isn't a factor, but if it is, it will evaporate pretty quickly once people get to know you. Good luck.

Good luck Tireless, I hope something comes up soon. Don't give up trying.

I'm so fed up! I volunteered to hold the NCT coffee morning at my house today, trying to 'fit in' with the other mothers. Normally around 5 or 6 people attend coffee group, low turnouts are usually where there is a sudden change of venue. My name has been on the list for ages. One person showed up.

This is not the first time I have volunteered to host an NCT group, last time was 'Bumps and Babies' and again, one person showed up.

What is wrong with me exactly? Am I so different that I am putting people off? Do I give off the wrong vibes? Ok, I wasn't really looking forward to hosting the group today, but I spent most of last night cleaning and tidying the house. I bought new biscuits, brought down some of her toys and books for the other kids. I made an effort. I was so nervous and yet only one person turned up. She was nice though, but conversation is a bit hard with just two of you. I'm very grateful to her for making the effort at least.

I just think I'm seen as not 'worthy'. I don't fit into their category, don't have a nice house, professional husband, career waiting in the sidelines. But does that mean that I'm not a nice person? Sorry to go on, just a bit peed off with it all.

You poor thing Lisa it does sound as if you're feeling very down. I can't offer much in the way of advice except to keep on trying. When I had my first child I joined the NCT and the first time I went I thought I'd made such a huge mistake - they just weren't like me. However I persisted and I did eventually find some like minded people. Someone once told me that you make different kinds of friends at different times of your life. I think the type of friends you make through your children are far more superficial than the other friends say like school or college friends. I'm now doing the rounds of the playgroups etc after a long gap and for the third time and I can't tell you how bored I get with the "babytalk" all the time and the "have you started potty training yet?" all said with a competitive edge to it. Having said all that I too feel very lonely at times as all my "good" friends live miles away and there are times when I dread the school run with all the pally mums in their little cliques and I'm at a distance (that's my own choice though). I'm not one for joining groups or getting too involved with anything that requires me to push myself forward as I have very little self confidence. I do feel for you and hope in some small way my little rant has helped you feel less alone. Good luck.

Lisa, I'm so sorry about the disappointing turnout for your coffee morning. Don't take it personally though - maybe the weather is as nice where you are today as it is down in London and lots of people decided to go to the park or do a day trip with the kids.
Don't get disheartened, you met somebody nice, your house is lovely & clean, you and your partner get to scoff yummy biscuits and your little one had someone to play with (or look at).

Lisa, hang on don't be hard on yourself. We held Bumps and Babes in our branch this week and no one turned up!! The lady who hosted it had never hosted one before either and the only person that came was her helper.

You often find that with a first newborns Mums are very disorganised and trying to get out of the house is very difficult. Please don't be put off, it's also holiday season people are starting to disappear for a few weeks so some of them might no have got the message.

Lisa, I am sure you are not being rejected. I have hosted meetings where there was no one to meet : (

The suggestion that in nice weather, people are less likely to make the effort to go to someone's house is the most likely explanation. Yes, it's also holiday time. Lots of people with under-school age kids go on hols now before the schools break up.

You could offer to organise something else for NCT, maybe a teddy bears picnic or something that's not in your house. Or a swimming session. Find out who the fund raisers are and ask if you can do something, and say it's because you're keen to meet other people.

In my experience, most mothers couldn't care less what your husband does for a living, or what sort of house you live in.

Good luck!