Please help, kicked me when I'm down and now wants to make up, can't cope

[aefondkisses]

Found out on Monday that H slept with someone four times while on two-week work trip abroad. Didn't use protection. He says he'd decided, without informing me, that we needed to get a divorce so was therefore single and not doing anything wrong (his very words). We'd had an argument the day before he'd left and he said I'd gone too far (again, didn't say that at the time). I'm in such a state I can't explain this properly.

The argument was nasty it's true. But I wasn't the only one, and he was pretty harsh, even threatening at one point. Now, he says he's not sure and is blaming what happened on the things I said. It came about because, as usual, he didn't take into account the fact that I have physical problems that make everything seem harder. It was DS's birthday and I wanted it to be great. He decided to invite his family and friends to dinner the same night, followed by six of his ex-colleagues the following evening. So I'd been cooking all weekend and preparing stuff for the kiddie party on Friday too. He hardly helped and wants a medal for what he did do. When he said in the middle of it that he was going out for a swim, leaving me with my DS and step-DS and all the cleaning, I lost it and we had the argument. I have a slipped disc (third in four years) and have been struggling with hormonal imbalance that started when I got chronic fatigue 10 years ago. It goes in cycles and my life is hugely better but I'm nowhere near to normal energy levels. Was getting back to proper weight but after this I've shrunk again, can only drink tea. The painkillers are the only things keeping me sane as one of them also treats anxiety. I'm gutted for DS too as I just can't see how we can get back from this as H says he will never feel remorse but is willing to start afresh (wtf?!).

What's worse is that I struggle to believe his version and feel he wanted to hurt me, as punishment for argument. I have no proof of that, just my gut. If he'd really decided to leave, would he have needed to tell me about OW? When he came home, we put little one to bed then he said he'd decided to leave. He burst into tears and was so distraught I softened (I'd been mad he'd not asked about DS by mail over the two weeks he was gone). That was when he told me about OW. This is the second time he's dealt with a dispute in this way, though the first time it was 'just a snog'. I'll never know, but he's such a child I believed him. Now I'm lost. Have managed to keep a brave face for DS but it's going to be hard to keep it up. H wants us to have counselling but my instinct says he wants to hurt me again by discussing it in front of someone else, humiliating others is a family trait, at least on of MIL's.

He didn't just have sex with OW, they spent time around people who know us both and to whom he probably told his version of events, that makes it ten times worse. It's horrible.
Please help, what are the baby steps to not lose it?

mardy in that case it's over..I can't keep this up and will not have DS think this is what women should be like in relationships.

Yes I have lost perspective as Caitlin said and I don't know where to start to change that but at least this thread gives some idea of what's important, it's like I've totally lost track of that these last few years. When people see photos of me from before this relationship they say things like "I don't recognise you, you're so much thinner now" or "I preferred the way you looked before" not nice to hear but the person probably thought I'd been on a crazy diet or something...nope.

Can you ask him to move out rather than go spend time with your friends?

keep posting, love

So there you are, repeating your parents' dynamic. Larkin was right!

May I also suggest you google "Stockholm syndrome" - it exactly accounts for how wonderful those rare moments feel when he treats you as he should.

"He just came back in briefly, held my hand and wanted to be sweet to me."

Urgh - he's enjoying this.

He's getting a little buzz out of how he's upset you and knocked you down to size.

Now he gets to offer you little crumbs of comfort safe (as he thinks) in the knowledge that you're going to be grateful.

Until the next time he needs to teach you a lesson.

I think AThing has got it spot on with that.

morning fond! I don't think you should be worrying about having argued with him or whether you insulted him rather than his behaviour, not because those aren't, under normal circumstances, important things to worry about in a relationships, but because what I think you should be worrying about is why you aren't a lot angrier. Everyone on here agrees that your H is treating you appallingly, and you seem to be aware of it rationally but not really feeling it. I suggest that the reasons are probably a) that feeling love and anger towards someone at the same time is incredibly painful, so it's very common for your mind to try and repress one or other of them so you don't have to deal with the disjunct and b) probably to do with your parents.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but I suspect their relationship does influence you more than you think. I say that because my parents also (quel surprise) have a somewhat dependent relationship - though quite a happy one - and I have no doubt that it has set my template for the amount of attachment and generosity that's 'normal' in a relationship further over than many other people's. Which is not wholly a bad thing - there are circumstances in which being able to weather storms in a relationship is good, of course - but where it is definitely not helpful is when you really do need to leave. Like you I would say I was very independent, strong-minded, have lots of firm friendships, but I was looking at the coda website (following another mumsnet thread in fact):

www.coda-uk.org/index.php?page=patterns-characteristics-of-co-dependency

and I was surprised to find I definitely tick not all, not even most, but definitely some of the boxes, in fact they are characteristics I think of as totally normal, and it would never have occurred to me to consider problematic, so you might find it equally enlightening. It also doesn't sound like expressing anger/difficult emotions was something they really supported - is it possible you've internalised that? maybe if you break up your relationship that threatens theirs? nb your therapist sounds astute and must have something to say about this?

The reason anger is important is not because it's inherently a good thing, but because it is what will enable you to detach enough from your H to be able to leave (as Anyfucker is saying). If you can't get angry on your own behalf can you get angry for your DC, whom he is damaging too? I still think it would be really helpful for you to talk to someone in RL, if/when you can - maybe not your parents, given the above, but how about that friend? I think you will be surprised by how angry they are for you and that will make his abuse 'real' in some way.

That's great that you had a strong life and character before he got started on you - I find what you say about the weight loss etc really alarming btw - can you think back to that and try and pick up the threads of where you were? It's also very helpful that you can work from anywhere (though I don't know how moving would work with DC depending on where you are, but there are lots of people on here who can give you more specific advice on that and other legal stuff, as/when you get to that point) - I think once you manage to get your perspective sorted - and your back - you will find you are in a much stronger position than you think. GOOD LUCK!! And come back and tell us how it goes.

sorry - that was a bit of an epic..

and also with proper link

great post, MC

aefond...how are you today ?

How's this for anger-provoking: he fell out with you so refused to ask about your DS for two whole weeks whilst he was away . He's already showing emotional detachment towards your DS because he know it hurts you. That's a very bad sign.

Hope you're OK today OP.

Can I suggest you get yourself a copy of 'Why does he do that?' by Lundy Bancroft as soon as possible. It'll help you see that he has no intention at all of being a lovely person and the nice things he is doing now are just part of an abusive cycle. As your therapist has identified, you are a rescuer - well, he doesn't want to be rescued, he likes things just the way they are.

I'd also be pretty confident that your CFS would be massively better if you didn't have him grinding you down.

Got five minutes on my own, literally (step-DS is here for the weekend), but really wanted to thank you all for your kindness. And for coming back to check up, that kind of support is truly precious to me .

MC thanks, that's great information and I will check out that link. I think I misunderstood what you meant about co-dependence the first time but everything you say is ringing bells.

NotQuint he's offered to move out himself but so far I've wanted him to spend time with DS (after being away nearer three weeks than two) and his DS came on Friday night. I think if he was away I'd only see the positives, that's what I'm like . I've been in a state of shock most of the time so unable to make a decision.

ThereGoes yes that is definitely fanning the flame. DS is where I feel limits rising.

AThing and Annie I hear you, just struggling to believe there could be that amount of manipulation in him.

AF you know that feeling when you wake up and for the first 10 seconds you're happy then the floor falls away? It's the first day I've not woken up crying though, and I think that's largely thanks to the support I've had here.

oh blast got to go

we will be here

Do you get on with DSS's Mum?

You are doing such a brave thing.

"just struggling to believe there could be that amount of manipulation in him."

For someone like you or me, who are not naturally manipulative, it would take a lot of effort and thought to be that manipulative to someone.

But IME, for someone who is manipulative by nature it just comes naturally. It's instinct. He's not consciously thinking about how to manipulate you. He does it because it's second nature to him, it's his personality, it's what he's driven to do. And it's not curable! Not by you anyway. You can only be hurt by it - or choose to escape from it.

hello,

I didn't get time to say earlier that I will look out for that book Kundry.

MrsD I've got an appointment to find out about the cortisone and everything in December. After a few years of doctors looking at me like I'm making it all up, a wonderful GYN got me to do specific blood tests that showed I have practically no DHEA to speak of and that my immune system was shot! I nearly kissed her out of relief. The supplement she gave me back then has got me to the stage where the fatigue is manageable and related to my cycle but not easy. H knows all this but says he forgets because I don't complain/do anything about it. Well, actually I do complain (maybe not shouting or screaming (as on days like fateful Sunday) but when I'm at that stage it's no longer a complaint it's desperation) and I have been doing something about it (seeing therapist to manage work-life balance, working only part time).

I'm starting to see now (thanks again MN) that its lack of moral support that's missing. Zero empathy, with loads of hugs, has been a recipe for disaster for me. As MC said, this is almost entirely to do with my parents, not just their relationship template but also their not allowing difficult emotions to be expressed.

emergency got to go xx

Came back to finish replying. Feel so sad about some of the other threads on here, wish there was an MN angels strike force that could descend on some of these guys in RL

MrsJR yes we do get on, his ex and I, mostly talk about DSS not much else but always friendly and respecful of distance. She's made comments about him in the past when they've argued about him not taking DSS for whatever reason to do with his work, saying he was egocentric. Surprise.

aufaniae incurable..I sooo wish i'd come on here before. After the first time, the line was "I realise now that I was out of line, it's my yellow card" never again you're the best etc. This time, "how do you feel about writing a new chapter. I know i can't do moral support, but i want to learn and try". I didn't think they did two yellow cards, but I don't know much about football, so do they?

Thing is...as MC says all of this is my rational side giving you information i know confirms everyone's opinions on here it's just that i'm not feeling angry. I was white with fury when i found out about it this time round, but within less than an hour was in tears being comforted by him...
Sounds pathetic but when you're bogged down all you see is bog

aggh, being comforted by the instrument of your distress... big red flag

does that seem logical?

huge red flag AF, I see that now. Totally illogical.

That was last Monday night, since then I've been trying to take your advice about anger and what someone else said about dignity. I know I can do it, just am not feeling brave tonight. Need to sleep tbh but needed to sign in to re-read the thread and take heart.

What I realised today also is that living in a different country where infidelity is kind of glamourised or at least widely tolerated (when it's the man of course) and considered the wife's failings, you can lose your bearings quite fast. And you can go crazy thinking it's you when you know it's not ifyswim.

I'm going to go to bed now, glad I didn't miss your post. Don't know how you manage to keep track and help all these girls but please don't go on holiday
xx

hey, it's called "Threads I'm On" and I keep them going for 2 days

I notice you keep disappearing for "emergencies" but you don't fool me, nor anyone else

you won't be forgotten here x (unless you want to...but I don't think you want to)

I absolutely don't want to be forgotten AF.

You rumbled me for running away.

And then I read a thread today that sounds just like me three years ago (I hope owlfright that you came and read about what can happen when you make excuses for someone for so long). So I decided to reply to bump up the post.

Really bad sleep and day today. Used up another box of tissues, have lost three kilos, and am struggling with anger at myself for not getting out sooner.
For DS's sake if nothing else. He's a smiley little kid and I've put a lot of effort into ensuring he has activities and friends that bolster his esteem, and I talk through his worries from school to check he's not hiding anything (as I used to so as not to worry my parents). He always goes to bed wriggling with energy and flops out as soon as the lights are out. I'm reassuring myself here that he's ok but what I do realise is that I can't play airbag for any longer.

I told H that today actually. Really stopped him in his tracks by saying (admittedly through a flood of tears ) that I wouldn't spend a second longer trying to understand him, that his "excuse" of having checked out of the marriage (without telling me) was not admissible full stop no explanations, that I would not accept him separating his role as father and husband anymore i.e. if one's defective the other is too because they're RELATED, and that I can't see counselling helping because he's burned his bridge to me. He didn't know what to say and I think was genuinely shocked.

Couldn't have done that without you all, so thanks. Got a little dignity back and, especially, healthy thinking. I no longer feel like my opinions are completely invalid

Well done for saying all that aefond. You are absolutely right that he can't separate his roles as father and husband, they are entirely dependent on each other. He can't kid himself he's a great dad while at the same time treating his son's mother like shit.

One thing though - he may have looked shocked, and I hope you got some satisfaction from that, but don't be fooled into thinking you're going to turn his thinking around or that he'll suddenly change into the perfect husband. He won't. He has treated you with the basest contempt and no one who has an ounce of true feeling for you would do that. He might have lost faith in the marriage, it happens, but to then say he "considered you divorced" and felt he had the right to fuck around because of that is far far beyond acceptable. As you say he has burned his bridge. Don't repair it. Please.

Hi Cailin, good to read you I really took your previous posts to heart.

Although my resolve isn't strong enough yet, I made myself the promise last night that I would not lift a finger to do any bridge repair work.

You know what, he didn't lose faith in the marriage, he just doesn't like not getting his own way. I am now trusting my instinct every inch of the way and it says, he was trying to punish you. My eyes are well and truly open.

Reading owlfright's post earlier was like time travelling. When my H "snogged" (hate that word) the first OW I knew it was all wrong, that my limits had been passed etc. but couldn't cope with that truth, because it didn't sit with the person he was 99% of the time (I thought). NOW, I know that it was perfectly consistent with him 100% of the time, because my main issue with him was of not taking responsibility

Once the hurt eases I'll make the baby steps. I don't know why infidelity is such a knife in the back. It's not like I own him. I guess for some of us (dying breed) sex means something more than copulation so the thought of him sharing that intimacy with someone else is just awful.

Bad day, but again, thanks MN girls