my wife of 28 years admitted she no longer fancies me

[Pandrm]

Hi. Just feel the need to share. Not sure if it will make me feel better of worse. My wife and I have had a lack lustre sex life for many years but last Tuesday I suggested to her that her reason for not wanting sex with me might be simple- that she just doesnt fancy me. She verbally stomach punched me when she said yes I think thats true to some degree. I have felt like the wind has gone out of my sails since then. I love her and have always fancied her and despite many many chats she has never admitted that before. I am so lost its hard to function. Phil

Actually I disagree about the throwing your son out. I think that may be totally counterproductive. I have a DS the same age although as he is a student he is not at home in term time. I would be horrified if my DH suggested throwing him out. Yes, the family dynamics are different when he is at home but that's something you need to talk about. How do you feel about him being there?

I don't get the impression that Pandrm's ds is a student who is only home for the holidays, LadyL.

Pandrm's ds takes advantage and disrespects us in his behaviours and use of our house - he treats it like a bachelor pad which is not conducive to harmonious living, marital or otherwise.

Under the circumstances, Pandrm is best advised to reassert whatever authority he once had over his offspring - and if that means giving the young lion him notice to find a den of his own alternative accomodation, I would suggest he puts his paw down does so sooner rather than later.

Agree with everything izzyizin is saying except possibly the last part.
Your son should not be dominating both you and your wife.
Trouble is , he is 20 now. And yes, if it came down to it, he may well have to rent elsewhere. It is yours and your wifes house.
Not sure how much of that has to do with how your wife feels about you, but I dont expect it is helping.
You could try role play, you tarzan, her Jane?, if you are into that sort of thing??

Yes, I don't get the impression that he is a student either. Parents in their late 40s /50s usually have different habits from 20 year-olds but it's not usually because they disrespect their parents. DH and I both work full time, go to bed fairly early and don't FB / Skype people at 1am (I should add this would not stop him getting up before 6am for a holiday job!). Likewise it's not DS fault if I don't go to sleep until he gets in. When I pointed out to DS I could hear him chatting he just used the study so he does not disturb us.

I suspect Pandrm has been somewhat emasculated in his dw's eyes since the ds has hogged the testosterone, hence my suggestion that he stops tolerating any blatant disrespect and disregard from his son.

I doubt the son has anything much to do with it and I don't think it is right to throw out a dc, especially in this housing market. Why is ds disrespectful? What does "treats it like a batchelor pad" mean? I don't see why it isn't ds' home as much as anyone else who lives there. If there are problems with how you all live together then you need to work together to sort them out a young adult will find it very difficult to live with parents I don't believe it is something many seek unless the other options available are shit. I think a young adult who disrespects parents and the family home whilst simultaneously living there and refusing to leave may well be displaying behaviour they have learned from the family home anyway or may be vulnerable and unhappy. I don't think the answer is to wash your hands and blow the consequences.

I think announcing to your h that you no longer fancy them and then doing nothing about it is pretty cruel and disrespectful as is not ever confronting your feelings about this and continuing with a "lacklustre" sex life you may not even want just to avoid confronting things.

I would not want to be with a person who felt jealous of my children or who saw me as unattractive because I cared for them. I don't think the answer, if the problem is a trivial woman who wants a "mans man", is to treat your child badly so you can get back into the pants of someone who doesn't like you as you are.

Thanks for your thoughts offered though I think I've given the wrong impression about our son and our relationship (problem with few words I guess). I do lots for my son. Over the years we have worked with him to keep him on the straight and narrow which he has done but it is some of the things he does now that cause problems. Maybe we are wrong to expect that he gives us a text or phone to say he is staying out until four in the morning , and/or bringing a girl back he has met and having her sleep over, lending money and not paying it back, overspending to the max on his credit cards then demanding he needs money to get him to pay day, borrowing money to buy a car from us to save him interest then missing payments because he is short of cash. These are just some of the things and perhaps we have done too much for him but he has been given the right advice just not taken it.

I think at 20 years old you have to let him be responsible for himself. I don't think he should be texting you to let you know where he is at 20 and I think you should be able to trust his judgement over who he brings home too. What is the reason why you want him to text? At 20 being out late is quite normal surely? As is bringing back a girl? he is probably waiting till so late to avoid you seeing because he is embarrassed/because you don't like him doing it. Bailing him out with money is basically helicopter parenting a child, he is 20. He needs to manage his own money whatever the consequences to him. I suppose it sounds to me as though helicopter parenting him is a cause of his irresponsible behaviour. I don't see why anything your son does should be all your fault though?

" I am sure these other things play a part in our relationship breakdown but not responsible for it all"

From an outsider's perspective the whole set-up just sounds like 'Chez Passive'. You're passively accepting your role as tea-making eunuch, she's passively going around in contented fashion and your son is passively approaching adulthood by adopting perpetual child status. In 28 years there has been no personal progression, no-one is ever challenged, nothing changes. You probably all fall shy of actual laziness but there seems to be no ambition, no passion .... I imagine a household where all of this unspoken tension is rippling under the surface but you go around with fixed smiles and polite conversations, never so much as raising your voices.

'I don't fancy you any more' is still a horrible thing to say but take the opportunity to have it out.... not go more withdrawn as you avoid confrontation again.

Agree with Cogito.

I think it is just as likely to be a case of the wife just having a low libido, and not being that interested in sex - not with the OP, and not with anyone else either.

OP - you say you find it difficult to start or maintain discussion with her, or she blocks discussion. Have you suggested relationship counselling? Would she go for that? Does she actually want your sex life to improve, or is she quite content with not having it often, and possibly even quite relieved, secretly, that her words have made you pull back from her?

"I think it is just as likely to be a case of the wife just having a low libido, and not being that interested in sex - not with the OP, and not with anyone else either. "

After 28 years I think it's safe to say that this situation is not going to change whatever the OP does or doesn't do. She was described as 'contented'... This isn't therefore about trying to fix the wife or even fix the overgrown chick clogging up the family nest. This is about the OP deciding what he wants out of the life he has left. Whether he's quite happy to sacrifice the rest of his life making tea for someone who doesn't fancy him and has sex half-heartedly at well-spaced intervals... whether he's happy to settle for that.... or whether it's intolerable enough to call time. I don't see any other options.

If your reaction to this remains 'sad' rather than 'angry' OP, you're basically stuck where you are with the same old same old. Get a new tea-tray because it'll be seeing more action than you will.

Pandrm I don't think you're wrong to expect a text and if he wants to bring anyone back he should ask you first. I'd be livid if my DD didn't do those things. And I don't think it's to do with how old your son is, it's just a matter of common courtesy. You should stop bailing him out however, and I can't help agreeing with Cogito's posts, try not being so "nice" for a change!

Think it's time to kick some butt there Pandrm. The 20 year old should be living somewhere else if that's his lifestyle, he's not a kid, he won't end up living on the streets. There's no way I'd tolerate any of that, he's just taking the piss and treating you like dirt really.

You do sound a bit passive, although I'm not sure that changing that particular aspect would re-ignite your sex life as to me, your missus just sounds like she can't be bothered with sex... in general. Change it for yourself though. Get an interest outside the house, start going out more.

I think if you get rid of your son, the situation with your DW will resolve itself one way or the other.

Do you text your adult children to ask for permission to bring people home or be late?

I don't have adult children but if I did, I don't have to text them about anything I do. My house, my rules.

So why does another adult living in the house have to text to ask permission to be home late or bring people back? If you do that you effectively give them license to behave like a dependent in the context of them actually being an autonomous adult, it is surely like inviting them to do things to piss you off without making it clear you expect them to be responsible for themselves. My eldest is only 7 but I don't intend to be in that situation where I'm responsible for or overseeing their every decision at 20 years old.

Each to his/her own offred. None of the behaviour the OP described above would be tolerated in our house. I also like to think our kids wouldn't treat us like that but if they do, they're out. What other people do is up to them.

What brought you to Mumsnet OP?

Interesting stuff folks. What brought me to mumsnet? I came across the site and wondered what others though of my situation. I have noone to talk to about this so anonymous feedback has been helpful and thought-provoking. I should say, though not sure some will believe, that outside of what ive said on here the people I know ( and pretty much all of them) would be absolutely amazed to hear this stuff about me and my dw. My professional stature is enviable and my colleagues see me as successful, able and possibly even a 'catch'. It is only in this area of my private life where there is a problem. I would not be seen as a passive person nor a bad parent. I have been told be several people that I am a great Dad.
offred thanks for your honesty. Good luck with your own son in this. My own son was an angel until he was 12 and met a group of boys who's parents did not give any guidance.

I've got no trouble believing any of that about you OP. But then again I don't think most intelligent women interested in equality in their relationships want men to be masterful cavemen who assert authority, control and leadership of the household.

That said, your wife is reading that 50 Shades drivel.... but hopefully that doesn't mean she gets turned on in real life by men who are abusive, controlling pricks eh?

I think the stuff about your son is mostly irrelevant and in any case, it's not just your role to establish good manners and house rules; your wife is equally responsible.

I do think you're avoiding a conversation though, especially when you say that whenever you tried to broach it, 'someone came in' or she tried to close it down.

Pick a time when there's no chance of interruption, neither of you is tired or tipsy - and insist on thrashing this out once and for all.

If she won't engage, you really are going to have to come to a decision. I hope it's an ethical one.

Pandrm, your situation is very common.

I am probably one of the older people here.

I know lots of friends who just don't fancy their husbands- or anyone - anymore. It is a popular topic of conversation amongst my peers ( in their 50s)

Im sorry i have nothing more constructive to add.

That's really depressing Feckbox, I'm pushing 50 , been married for 29 years and still fancy the pants off DH and vice-versa, I imagine a woman in her 50's no longer wanting sex with her husband has more going on in the relationship than simple loss of libido. If I lost my mojo I'm damn sure I'd be looking for a solution.

Yes I agree it's pretty depressing
Obviously I can't extrapolate from my very small sample .

I have talked at great length with two friends in particular.They still love their husbands and have no intention of leaving or looking elsewhere.

But they don't fancy them .
They don't fancy anyone else either .( except maybe Daniel Craig )

they find sex quite good once it gets going of you see what I mean , but would rather not have to bother.

So I don't think they have major relationship problems that run deeper then the non fancying

Yes, I rather think that's my point. I think raising them to be entirely dependent on "guidance" often ends that way when they start being influenced more by their friends than their parents (which is inevitable). That's why I want all my children to learn to make their own judgements and decisions and to be responsible for themselves and the consequences of their choices.

Apologies, I didn't realise you were being smug and superior and considering yourself beyond criticism as a parent when you said "maybe we were wrong to..." Thought you actually had written what you meant to imply... Ho hum... Not too worried about my son, have to say! He's already been through an awful lot and I'm really proud of him, if he struggles as a teen I'm pretty confident we'll be able to cope.