I cant maintain any relationships.

[BooyhooRemembering]

sorry this could be long. i'm offloading and TBH feeling sorry for shitty self.

none of my relationships, with anyone last. even acquaintences (sp?). i dont have a good relationship with my parents or sister, we dont have good laughs when we get together. it's very uncomfortable when i'm there. i'm not friends with any of my (massive) extended family. i've only ever had one serious relationship that lasted 2 years. people i have been close to (friends) have either drifted away or i have distanced myself for one reason or another. i'm realising now that it's me that has a problem. they can't all be assholes. it's me. but i dont know why. and it's happening again with a person who once was my best friend. i am so lonely and i'm still finding reasons to not be as close to people. the problem is i can always justify it. why the fuck do i do this and how do i stop it? how do i overlook things that are hurtful in order to maintain friendship? should i even do that? doesn't that make me a pushover? do i either get to be a pushover or be lonely forever? i have one close friend who is the nicest person i've ever met and would never do anything to hurt anyone but i'm terrified that i will do something or take offence at something that isn't there IYSWIM. i am going to end up a lonely miserable person if i dont change. i just dont know how to change without becoming a doormat.

any advice greatly appreciated.

(sorry for being such a whinge)

good i glad you had look at a website

ok, well that's worth doing then if it means my dcs will get any help they need. going to do a bit more reading. see if there's any suggestions for relationships.

I think asperger's usually has more symptoms than just finding it hard to make & keep friends, doesn't it?

It does puzzle me, this issue.. Some of the nicest people I know seem to have few friends, and some of the most unpleasant, manipulative people seem to be the most popular . Pretty much as it was in my school days, really.

I think different kinds of people seem to have different definitions of friendship: if you're manipulative & don't really care about people, it's easier in a way to put up with their less attractive qualities because all you're really concerned about is appearing popular ; the quality of those relationships won't bother you so much.

On the other hand, if what you want is to make deep, meaningful connections with people, then you're likely to more troubled by unkind behaviour from those individuals in whom you've invested so much emotional energy.

And let's not forget how that primary relationship with your mother could well have influenced the way you view friendships as an adult - how willing you are to put your trust in people etc...

Sorry I don't have any answers as such. I'm in a similar boat, if that helps.

the drs can help you with work if you are having trouble

for example my ex was in trouble at work for not getting organize so he told them he thought he had a aspergers and they said he had to dr and find out so he did ( he had to see a physiologist) ( think that is right word) and it took a while to get the appointment but worth it they said he was more adhd than a aspergers but seeing as both my kids have it ....

If it is Asperger's, you may find that others see particular traits in you that you cannot see yourself. This is because it's the way you've always been so it's your version of normal. For example, when first asked if I had any sensory issues I said no, everything was normal in this respect. Later I was putting on a long sleeved shirt because it was sunny and the penny dropped: other people do not cover themselves in clothes to avoid sunburn, they use suncream. Suncream for me is the work of the devil and I'd rather stay in than use it. I never realised that others weren't completely freaked out by it. I thought what I felt was normal.

Or recognising people's emotions from their faces. I can do this. Not a problem. Did a facial recognition test. Answered them all very easily, as I say, not a problem. Was utterly gobsmacked when I got every single one wrong. And not just a bit wrong, but so far off it actually scared me as it made me realise that even when I think I understand others, the reality is that I don't have a clue.

"other people do not cover themselves in clothes to avoid sunburn, they use suncream. Suncream for me is the work of the devil and I'd rather stay in than use it"

i thought everyone did this? i personally dont stay out in the sun as i dont want to risk the damage but when my dsc play out i put long sleeves on them before i would put suncream on them. i thought this was normal?

i've read a bit more and recognise so much of myself in it. alot of stuff in the past would make a lot of sense if i do have aspergers. i cried reading it. things just made sense all of a sudden.

what happens if my GP doesn't take me seriously? tells me i'm just an arsehole? how do i explain why i think i may have aspergers?

Booy, I could be writing what you're writing. I hadn't really thought about having Asperger's.

On the subject of compromising, there is also the matter of dealing with emotion at the time you're experiencing it and letting a little out at a time, in proportion to what is happening. (Instead of letting someone take the piss over and over, being passive-aggressive and then losing ones temper and patience and throwing in the towel.) I'm a great one for this, and it came up in counselling quite a bit. Today I finally got up the courage to tell a potential friend that I am not enjoying her constant rants about her xh, nor her constant texts/phone calls/random unsolicited visits and insistence I should do the same back. I've probably lost the friendship, as I should have said something before.

I know how you feel, Booy and I don't have any answers.

that you might have lost the friend. but what could you have said earlier that would have had a lesser effect? surely she would have been upset at any point?

"there is also the matter of dealing with emotion at the time you're experiencing it and letting a little out at a time, in proportion to what is happening."

i find that i do one of two things. i either over react and do damage to the relationship or i completely withdraw from any interaction for fear of either over or under reacting until i know for sure how i feel about a thing. sometimes this means the person thinks i'm huffing (i'm not, i dont do huffing) or sometimes it means they think nothings wrong as they've had no 'bad' reaction so they are oblivious to the fact there is a problem. if that happens i usually dont let them know and let it go.

that you might have lost the friend. but what could you have said earlier that would have had a lesser effect? surely she would have been upset at any point?

Yes. Your first post really resonated with me. It's just how I feel. I feel like I have a magnet for toxicity.

i think i may have a similar magnet. up until now i just sort of accepted that this friendship is over or i dont want to be around that person anymore but after today i just realised that this is a pattern with me. i keep 'falling out' with people. i realised that the amount of people i have fallen out with is getting more and more and it really cant just be them. it has to be me. i'm the cause. i dont think it's normal to have so many people 'i used to be friends with but dont or hardly speak to anymore'

will the same thing happen with my children when they're older? will i push them away?

I don't think so Booy. Not that I know if I have Asperger's...but if I do, and my experiences are relevant then yes and no. I do need my space sometimes, and some independence. so for certain parts of the day and certain activities, I do push people away. So I have to make time for being a part of the family. I have to work at it.
Secondly, yes it is harder to communicate, but I think my children understand me better than anyone. We have learned to overcome a lot of difficulties and worked at getting to a point where we can accept each other. It's ongoing, and there's a long way to go, but we have come a very long way. I have to spend time telling them I love them, and what I mean by that. If anything we are probably closer as a family than most. My children are more independent than most as well. There's times when they don't tell me things, but that is normal, and they're allowed to have their privacy. We have our boundaries.

that's reassuring to hear. i'm going to make an appt on monday and go from there but even without a diagnosis i think i need to be more open with my dcs about how i'm feeling. i dont do that enough so it must be confusing for them when i am in certain moods and they dont know why.

Come back and tell us how it goes.

Just a recent example...Something I said to my DD the other day was 'I don't agree with everything I say and I cannot possibly agree with everything I think'. She was getting really worked up about some of the things I say to DH when I want to look at things from different angles. I needed to explain to her that sometimes I come out with quite shocking attitudes because it's something I've read and I just want to see what it is like, try it out and see how it works...But ultimately that isn't what I really think about the whole thing, I often haven't arrived at a POV on the subject and am exploring it from different view points. Somehow it seemed to be a bit of a watershed between us. I've noticed she's a lot more relaxed around me now, and we are starting to enjoy disagreeing with one another and changing our minds about things, and enjoying a few laughs. I don't know if this has anything to do with Aspergers, but other families don't seem to have this type of conversation!

it doesn't ring any bells with me but then maybe a trait i just havent the opportunity to express, i dont have a partner and my eldest is only 7 so i dont get much chance for intellectual or challenging conversation (unless you count translating what my 3 year old is trying to say )

i'm still reading and the more i read the more i am convinced both me and my mum have asperger traits.

i will let you know how it goes. for some reason i feel my GP wont take it seriously. i hope he does i dont want to feel like an idiot

Booy if you do now suspect you have Asperger's and want a referral for assessment you will need to explain your concerns to your GP in a way that fits in with their limited knowledge of the diagnostic criteria. Currently there are 3 diagnostic criteria that they will hear you're having problems with:

1. Language and communication - this covers things like not picking up on the subtleties of language (eg sarcasm or irony), pitch (do you get ever get told you're too loud/quiet), tone (do you get told you sound angry/aggressive/rude when you don't intend to be), do you misunderstand body language, do you struggle to maintain a conversation, have trouble talking on the phone. You can look up other examples online to see which, if any apply to you.

1. Social - problems with relationships developing and maintaining them. Females with Asperger's often have no problems forming casual aquaintances but cannot take the relationship beyond this. There is also often a history of desperately trying, making that contact for a while, and then being dropped and shunned without every understanding what has gone wrong.

1. Repetive behaviours - for Asperger's this primarily means 'special interests' ie intense hobbies. They can be short lived and intense for that time or life long. EG my (AS) daughter's has been Anne Frank for 13 years. She's read everything, watched everything and knows everything there is to know about Anne Frank. But repetive behaviours can also be the need for routines and order and making lists of things and schedules to keep that order. (This is me, I have lists and lists of lists (some only in my head) and everyday I have to do chores in the same order or my anxiety goes through the roof. Another example, my (AS) husband always eats the same things when we go out for dinner. Spends ages examining the menu and then orders the same as always. The world will fall off its axis if he ever orders anything different :o

There are other traits and difficulties assoicated with AS, such as hypersensitivity to suncream. But they don't form part of the diagnostic criteria as they don't apply to everyone. Whereas the 3 listed above do. If you don't have 'significant' problems in all of those 3, then you won't be diagnosed with Asperger's.

thanks for that flamin yes problems in all three of those areas. i was thinking about this when i went to bed last night. would a diagnosis of aspergers give my EXP a better chance or residency of our dcs if he ever decided to go for it? (very possible) i wouldn't tell him about the diagnosis but it would be on my medical records. i dont want it to be used against me.

thanks for the reply last night, I see the thread has moved on somewhat. Unless the AS impaired the way you look after your kids, I can't see it would be an issue, but would there really be any great advantage to you pursuing a formal DX? would there be any practical benefits, would you feel better about yourself for having a formal DX?

I think ceilidh's post was very insightful, about going for fewer, higher quality as it were friendships, and so feeling let down if people behave badly. I identified with it a lot, as I at the very least have bagfuls of AS traits, not 100% sure I would get a DX if I went for one, but I have some MH labels already so don't really want any more!

that's what i'm currently thinking lightpassenger, whether i'd be any better off with a dx than without. if it could be used against me WRT my dcs (and i think EXP would try) then i definitely wouldn't pursue it.

yes ceilidhs post made a lot of sense. i'm going to read and think more over the weekend before making any decisions, it's not like there's any rush anyway. and yes, i'm going to try and stick with fewer good relationships.

I don't think the answer is necessarily to go for fewer higher quality relationships tbh, I think the answer is to accept that there is something in between small talk acquaintances, and close trustworthy friends, and navigate the middle ground a bit.

I think this is much more simple than exploring whether you have a borderline personality disorder such as Aspergers. I am straightforward and not manipulative and like the rules. I am sociable on a surface level but I don't expose too much of myself until I decide that others are reliable enough to have more than a superficial relationship with. I do fear rejection and that stems from a poor relationship with my mother, parents' divorce, etc..

Ultimately you are entitled to have friends who are reliable, kind and loyal - anthing less and they are acquaintances not friends. Friendship is about getting to know people and forging deep bonds. I have lots and lots of acquaintances, lovely people who I am happy to spend time with but very few close friends who have known me for 30 years or more.

School friends - lost touch
College friends - lost touch gone different way except for Xmas cards, except for one but she now lives hundreds of miles away
Work friends - Xmas cards - gone separate ways
Adult friendships - I have one kindred spirit and one best friend but see ks perhaps twice a year and bf three or four times a year
Children's godparents - in touch but rarely moved away, all very busy
Family - I have very little - DH's tends to be a pain

I had some relationships in my 20s but knew I didn't want spend the rest of my life with those men. I met DH when I was 29 and knew he was the right one and love him more now than 23 years ago.

Ultimately I think you have to accept who you are and be comfortable in your own skin before you can accept others for exactly who they are. Ultimately nobody has to stay friends with those who don't treat them well. Good friends take some finding and some forging of bonds and I think are a bit like hats and shoes - you have to try on a lot to see if they fit some will look good, some will be utterly comfortably and mould with you over many years.

see the people i have made close bonds with, i always think at the time that we have more than just an acquaintence. sorry i'm not able to write this how i'm thinking it for some reason. the friendships seem and feel genuine but then they always go wrong. i do agree that with some it's a case of too close too soon and too trusting but others have been slow burners and yet still go wrong after a while. at the minute i just feel like wihdrawing completely. i know that's not good and it's a response to what happened with my friend yesterday but i just dont trust my own judgement. i always feel as if i'm treading the line between not interested enough (in the person) so they think i dont like them, or wanting too much of their time. in the past i've tried not getting in touch and just letting people who want the friendship get in touch themselves but that ends up with me feeling like shit because no-one does and it reinforces the feeling that it's been me pushing for a relationship when they didn't really want one.

Asperger's is NOT a borderline personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a mental health illness that anyone can develop, be treated for and overcome. Asperger's is NOT a mental health illness. It is a difference in cognitive functioning which people are born with. It is only a problem because society doesn't accept difference. As the AS world renowned expert Tony Attwood said 'The problems with Asperger's are other people. The cure is to close the door'.