Is the media stealing my sex life?

[DeirdreOfTheSorrows]

I've name-changed, because this is about sex and feelings and personal stuff and I'm probably pretty identifiable in my normal guise. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, either - but it's been on my mind for a while and I wonder whether anyone might be able to shed some light on it for me. I wonder whether I ought to have posted it in Feminism, too! But let's see how we go.

For a good few years now I've been feeling that my increasing awareness of of porn culture, and media stories about violence, sexual violence and cruelty of all sorts, are impinging on my ability to feel comfortable and secure in my own sexuality. I've never experienced violence myself, and porn hasn't been an issue in any of my relationships, so it's not a flashback type of situation - simply that my associations with sex are increasingly becoming mixed up with nasty and upsetting stories and ideas rather than my own (probably rather tame) experience.

Just as background, I wouldn't ever have thought of myself as a competitive sadder - I think I've got a pretty realistic idea about the way in which certain stories gain currency and play out in the media, and I think I can distinguish between empathy for a tragic or terrible situation and getting caught up in an emotional binge.

But for some reason I'm really struggling to maintain a sense of my own sexual self in the face of story after story of sexual violence or exploitation or coercion. It's as if I can't find the kind of easy lustiness I had when I was younger any more, and my brain can't switch off from stories about other people's dreadful experiences, or my political feelings about pornification, or MN threads in which people have shared how sex was used as a weapon against them, even though I'm in a relationship where sex should be perfectly safe and equal and unproblematic.

I really don't know what to do about this. One can't just stop knowing these things, and withdrawing from engaging with them would seem to be a dreadful cop-out. But how do I find a way to regain some innocence and spontaneity about my own sex life, rather than letting it be overshadowed by things which should be a political, rather than an emotional, part of my life?

No no our relationship is great, I just meant the uneasiness I feel from the constant influx of sexuality should be via the media makes me doubt myself as a woman as per the OP.
I have actually asked H about the porn thing and he doesn't understand it either.

Exactly what media are you watching/reading/listening to? If it's making you doubt yourself give yourself a total media cleanse. Be far more selective about the world view you expose yourself to and your sources of information. Raise your standards and apply censorship rather than expecting 'the media' to raise theirs.

In my home, for example, you will not find gossip/lads/women's mags, trashy newspapers, MTV or pop songs belting out raunchy lyrics. I know what's going on in the world but I choose not to view it through a prism of sleaze and I'm certainly not going to compare myself to nubile young things and make myself feel inferior..

Find the media that speaks to you the way you want to be spoken to rather than passively absorb crap like a pig passively eats whatever is put in the trough....

You are right , I no longer buy magazines or watch trash tv and I'm not on Facebook etc , I suppose it's just mumsnet now haha .

Actually, another very important point to consider is that it's not particularly natural to have sex with the same partner and that partner only for years on end. Again, the idea that your Soul Mate will actually give you Great Sex forever and ever is a relatively modern one and socially constructed.

And, in a general way, there is nothing wrong with 'sex separated from love and feelings'. It's pretty good to separate the two, otherwise you are more likely to end up staying with an abusive partner who claims to 'love' you.

" I suppose it's just mumsnet".... and crappy novels like the one making up your userid?... :)

Read the first one and hated it, hence the meh!

Thanks everybody, some good thoughts here and I'll try and read and respond properly later. Just defensively quickly, though (rushing to get ready for work) I wanted to respond to this:

Find the media that speaks to you the way you want to be spoken to rather than passively absorb crap like a pig passively eats whatever is put in the trough....

If I was drowning in tabloid imagery and MTV I would agree, totally, but (hollow laughter) our media consumption is already incredibly middle aged; no telly, and a steady diet of the Guardian, the New Statesman, and Radios 3 and 4. I really don't think you could do much more to avoid the 'prism of sleaze'. They still tell you what Jimmy Savile got up to, though, and fill your ears with John Humphries' shamefully dismissive attitude to the girls he 'only' groped. Etc.

I agree Deirdre even when you avoid it , it's still always around.

I think it's a bit misguided and romantic to think women who came before us felt no pressure. They did, but it was a different and in many ways more insidious pressure. To have any "standing" in life you basically had to get married, like it or not. A woman who had the audacity to have sex outside marriage was looked down upon by all and shunned. If she had the misfortune to conceive a child outside of wedlock she was a pariah forever unless she gave the baby up. As usual, men weren't even mentioned in all this - as ever, they could do as they liked and a blind eye was turned. Once you were married you were then fair game for life - your husband could rape you daily if he wanted and the law was on his side. If you were unlucky enough to live in Ireland like my grandmother did, you had no access to contraception and ended up having child after child after child while your husband did absolutely nothing to contribute beyond the sperm.

Women entered marriage as virgins with no idea of what to expect, and a lot of them never developed anything like a satisfactory sex life. There wasn't even an expectation that they would enjoy sex, it was just a duty they had to fulfil as part of being married. Of course plenty of men were kind lovers and plenty of women had a great time but if you didn't there was nothing you could do about it.

In some ways society was even more sexualised then than it is now. What I mean is, as a woman, your value was entirely based on you being a sexual object. Your main aim was to get married, and in a lot of societies once you married you had to give up official work because your role as a wife (ie as a servant, sexual and otherwise, to your husband) was seen as overriding any value you had as an employee.

It's worth remembering that the idea of women actually enjoying sex, and just doing it for fun, is really very new. Even in my mother's time living together without being married, in Ireland, was very much frowned upon. As a result we have this sort of schizophrenic society where women have been given very strong messages about respectability and pleasing a man from the earlier generation while at the same time being surrounded by messages about being "free" and "uninhibited" by their own generation. It ends up in this really toxic mess where women still have a sense of shame and secrecy around their bodies and sexuality (as evidenced by threads about sexual assault, and mothers worrying about their girls using tampons, or learning about sex "too young") and still have the old hangovers about pleasing a man (as evidenced by women who have clearly been raped but still need others to tell them it's wrong, or women who judge other women for being drunk when they were raped, having an affair while being abused etc). Women still aren't in the position where they can say "I enjoy sex, I masturbate, I look the way I look and sex is on my terms," the way men have done since the dawn of time. There is still the underlying assumption that men are entitled to sex, can't help themselves, need to be pleased even at great cost to the woman etc etc. Until those assumption die nothing will get better. And unfortunately it is women as much as men who keep them alive.

So if you're worried about your daughter, teach her to be proud of her body. Be open and honest with her, about all aspects of sexuality and teach her that she and she alone is in charge of what happens to her body, at all times. She doesn't have to please anyone, or be what anyone else wants her to be, ever.

I think the sense of unease talked about on this thread is part of an overall realisation of the position of women in society, which takes time to become aware of, particularly nowadays where we are surrounded with empty guff about "equality." Once you see how men as a whole have treated women it's hard not to see your own man in that light. It helps to remember that he is as much a product of the patriarchal society as you are, and you can tackle it together, with your children. If you feel your partner would dismiss your concerns or refuse to help, then you do actually have a problem. It can seem a bit churlish to get worked up about something that doesn't impact on your daily life but it is important and when you get the point where you don't want to be dismissed any more, where you feel your anger is legitimate (and it is) being fobbed off is just not acceptable, especially from someone who is supposed to be on your side.

"They still tell you what Jimmy Savile got up to, though, and fill your ears with John Humphries' shamefully dismissive attitude to the girls he 'only' groped. Etc. "

Then we're hearing/reading similar things. It has been a particularly poor week or two in that regard and I recognise the same sinking feeling when I believe women are either selling themselves short or being sold out in their turn. I believe quite fervently that we've gone backwards in the feminism battle, laurels have been rested upon for too long, the new generation is deluded in thinking that 'liberation' is either relying on a man for their lifestyle or going on a 'slut walk' ... but that we're going to see a big backlash now and women are going to start getting angry again.

However, I still don't see why you'd let it negatively affect your own life and your own relationship unless, on some level, you think your partner is part of the problem

Perhaps it getting older and maturer which makes us all aware of these pressures around us, rather than them not existing before. The world and relationships seem so much simpler when you are younger.

Funnily enough, the b/f and I were chatting only the other night about how it seems to be a bit of a bad patch for 'fallen icons' and how you can't help but feel more cynical. He's a big cycling fan and the Lance Armstrong revelations had left him feeling a bit hollow. We always had JS down as a bit eccentric but not actually dangerous. We were actually trying to guess over a which character from our past was going to disappoint us next with their unsavoury habits.... much howls of protest when he suggested John Noakes!!

Callin is right of course that things were bloody awful for women in the past. But it feels as if all the strides that have been made have been counterbalanced. The old ways women were repressed and put down have just been replaced by others - trivialisation, derision aimed at women who do not conform to the shallow empty stereotypes held up as aspirational. Women who reject all the bullshit are subtly undermined, all the time.

And women who do buy into it (the Katie Prices) are also despised, for their stupidity- the 'vanity' that made them mutilate themselves with dangerous and unnecessary surgery. Never mind that their looks were what got them attention in the first place, so who could blame them for believing this is their greatest offering.

Worse, women are pitched against each other more than ever. The overt misogyny of the past is no longer permitted. A culture of women against women had to be developed to keep us all in our place. The genius of this is that we are conned into believing these thoughts are our own - the illusion that body dysmorphia, obsession with appearance, pressure to be sexually aggressive are based on women themselves actually placing these values at the apex. As if worrying about our looks all the time is natural and more important to us than pursuing intellectual, spiritual or professional development. As if losing our 'baby weight' quicker than other women is an index of success.

I totally understand what you're saying and it's part of the reason I abstained from sex for several years. While I had an active social life and was asked out on many occasions, the casual sexism and porn culture references made by most of the men chatting me up made me feel terribly jaded about the whole thing. Quite frankly I'd rather be celibate and on my own, even for the rest of my life.

However, having now got involved with a man whose feelings very much mirror my own about it, I have discovered a spontaneity and level of enjoyment that is far superior to my younger days before I was even aware of any of these issues and enjoyed the whole thing with gleeful abandon.

IMO the key thing is respect and trust. If you are really secure in those two things in your relationship, the only thing you'll be thinking during sex is WOW!

Sadly, the one thing life has taught me is that these two elements are not present in perhaps the majority of relationships.

What a great post, tired.
I was reading the thread earlier and thought about how being my age - 50 - makes me an object of derision. Older women have horrible pressure on them now with regard to looks. Portrayed in horrible, sad, offensive 'granny porn' and made to feel we can never be attractive once we're past 45. The misogyny is horrendous in such media as Mail Online. Very nasty comments made about older women who dare to go on a beach without being clothed from head to toe, god help the younger people who have to look at our hideous older bodies, vicious comments about older female celebrities. You see these mean remarks in the articles themselves and then the reader comments from both men and women are just dreadful. I'm constantly reminded that I'm now irrelevant. I can't reproduce, I don't look like 'they' want me to, I'm too old to enjoy or even expect sex.

I try to stay positive, but as soon as I look at many forms of media, and even MN a lot of the time, I'm reminded that I don't look like I did 25 years ago and therefore should just be invisible and forget about ever having sex again.

How this is linked to porn has already been discussed, and away from how I actually look these days are the expectations men have. I'm not in an intimate relationship and I haven't had sex for nearly 4 years now. I do have a 'companion' - we are just friends and he's a great plus one for social events - but I don't want a physical relationship because I feel like an asexual blob. As for trying to meet a new man, I'm not interested in exchanging explicit texts with strangers. I'm no longer interested in having sex on the first night. There are some sexual activities that I think are 'extreme' and would only consider in a LTR. And maybe not even then. So the media has definitely affected my sex life in a negative way.

I selectively listen, read and watch media. when it gets on top of me I take the heat off by avoiding the news as far as possible and listening to 4 extra, radio 6, galaxy, owt that doesn't mean I have to face the shite. I work in the misery business so I get child abuse all day, so to speak. You have to draw a line yourself. The media is ruthless and uncaring on the whole so manage your media. I also try to concentrate on being kind to people- don't manage it always- kindness can only make life better for everyone. Sounds wet but there you go

I have felt this recently too, and I no longer read papers, watch the news or read celeb mags, but it's unavoidable, particularly with all the JS stuff. The rest of it I get from here and some of the feminist groups I am on on FB.

I had a similar rant to my DH about it, about the misogynist culture, porn, the sexualisation and objectification of women, the appalling rape statistics and the victim blaming that is endemic.

It must have had an effect with him though, as he then tweeted the petition to remove Page 3.

I have felt really depressed and angry about it all. It just feels like we're going backwards instead of forwards. There are so many bastards out there, I fear for my DD going out into this fucked up world. I am determined to teach her and educate her, but she already worries that shes not pretty enough, or thin enough.

She's 11 ffs!

Great post CailinDana

Being 50 nearly it all went on when I was younger and at least today it's not brushed under the carpet, unfortunately with that comes for too much knowledge if you know what I mean.

How I deal with the situation is the same as Inadeeptrance, I do selective reading/TV watching.

I'm also in the fortunate position of not living with a man. I have a boyfriend that I see if and when. I would never ever dream of living with anyone ever again as couldn't put up with their ways.

Oh god, I thought it was just me who felt like that. It's almost to the point where I'm not even going to bother anymore.

OP- I could have written your post. It's been getting worse and worse each year.

Hmm..Ive been feeling like this, and totally fucked off by the Jimmy Savile saga, and the culture of public sector organisations (and probably nearly everywhere else). The fact that there is law and culture and they dont match up, especially in organisations.

The change on sex and in mens expectations of sex, including it turned out, in my own marriage.

I thought it was just me, or sour grapes or narrow mindedness or something.

But you must have hit on something here, because I raised it with h only on monday of this week, about the porn culture and the implications for our kids as they grow up. And partly to explore how far we are on the same page.

However, I still don't see why you'd let it negatively affect your own life and your own relationship unless, on some level, you think your partner is part of the problem

I don't see why, or how, either - I suppose that's partly why I started this thread, because I'm not sure why it's happening. I'm sure better boundaries is mostly the answer, and I'd be really interested to hear how people like deliasmithy manage to do that.

cailindana, that was a great post. See when you're talking about how to help our daughters:

'So if you're worried about your daughter, teach her to be proud of her body. Be open and honest with her, about all aspects of sexuality and teach her that she and she alone is in charge of what happens to her body, at all times. She doesn't have to please anyone, or be what anyone else wants her to be, ever.'

I think maybe one of the things that is coming up for me is that I'm not as sorted in all those ways myself as I probably thought I was. My guess is that that's very little to do with my partner and a lot to do with me - I think I'm old enough now to acknowledge the ways in which I've consciously and subconsciously accommodated myself to him or other boyfriends in the past, but not quite clear about how to stop doing that without making a big deal out of it. Part of it is that I guess I'm not really sure what I'm after myself. Hm.

Maybe we need to go back to proper 70s style consciousness raising?!

I think examining your ideas and past behaviour to see what informed them is a really good thing, especially when you have children and are concerned about the message you're sending them. I think it's very easy to send girls the message that "men will be men" and that they need to be polite and put up with a certain amount of harassment and unreasonableness when it comes to sexual matters. They absolutely do not. Girls needs to be a taught, from a very young age, that their body, all of it, is absolutely theirs to enjoy and if anyone else wants to do anything to do them - be it kissing, hugging, tickling, pinching, whatever, then that person needs to be absolutely sure they are ok with it, and if they are not ok with it, then it is fine, expected even, that that they make a massive fuss about it. My heart always sinks when I see threads from women who put up with partners basically raping them because they feel they have no right to say no. Why oh why in this day and age do women still have that idea?

Had an interesting convo about this thread with the DH today.

In his view he agrees that porn and the like is so much more accessible these days, in the main due to the internet. In his opinion "a lot" of men think their sex life should be like porn. He pointed out that you can't really learn about a healthy sex life from many places, so porn can become the 'model' of what to expect.

I do think there's an increasing aspect of sexualisation going on, I feel many music videos for instance are soft porn these days. My knowledge of history is weak but I'm pretty sure people had this fear in previous decades. Thinking of rock and roll, for instance.

In reply to a previous post about how do I manage the negative things I am surrounded by:
Difficult to answer. Sorry! Hmmm.
I try and think of the positives in the scenario. People aren't 100% good or 100% bad, so I look for good things in people.
I no longer watch depressing tv or films. No horror for me, thanks.
I read about why people do certain things to help understand their behaviour
I hold onto the belief that most people are decent human beings.
People make mistakes.
If we did not have at least a passing interest in sex then none of us would be here.

OP, I guess you can never regain your innocence about the bad that exists in the world. Would you really want to?
What you can do is try and put the bad things into perspective, and value the good relationship that you have.