not ok to shake our son...

[DippyDoohdah]

my estranged Dh and I have been trying to have some family time before divorce finalised, to make sure w are doing right thing/see if can come back together.long story but includes me feeling very strongly that is too heavy handed with 2 and 4 year old ds..4 year old showing some autistic tendencies.anyway...
yesterday, 2 year old (soon 3) did something minor and Dh told him to say sorry..ds refused a couple of times..Dh got very angry that he was being defied and grabbed ds, raised him in the air in front of him and shook him two or three times, shouting, until ds burst into tears.Dh thinks they need a firm hand.he came to pick them up for nursery this morning and eldest was playing up about not wanting to go out..Dh frog matched him to door, shouting and ds was cowering and trekking me did not want to go..Dh pulled them both out and they both left in tears.
they can be challenging, extremely bright and loving.
I just need a bit if affirmation that this is not ok, no matter how many nice bits can come unbeaten..

[OpheliasWeepingWillow]

Sweet lord. Based on your OP (have not read thread) I would have called the police. WTAF? Seriously? You have to ask if this is unreasonable?

OP - your job is to PROTECT your children

[Offred]

I think people are worried that he doesn't respect you or the children and it hasn't actually mattered when you supervised the contact before, he has still hurt them and has not had any consequences or learned any lessons. I think also it is worrying that you are still trying to do it all by yourself when he is abusive and dangerous to all of you. You really are not doing them favours by supervising contact yourself. I think you also aren't doing them any favours by protecting them from knowing how crap he is i.e. tiptoeing round him so that he still comes to see them.

[Offred]

I think you've lost perspective on how bad this is, maybe because of your job.

[hebetrayedme]

The time with him is not safe. HE SHOOK YOUR 2 YEAR OLD. Stop contact and see a solicitor. It is abuse, as well you know if you work with social workers.

[OpheliasWeepingWillow]

Agree with Offred. You need to escalate this OP. Stop contact for a start

[Offred]

I don't think you should use ss as a threat either - speaking to them is either necessary or not. Besides I don't think it would work: the whole problem is that he doesn't think he is being unreasonable isn't it?

[OpheliasWeepingWillow]

Exactly. You cannot ever change him, contracts or supervised access included. He sounds like a nasty intimidating thug

[RiaOverTheRainbow]

As has been said before, an absent father is better than an abusive one. Your dc will not thank you for prolonging their relationship with a man who frightens them.

[DippyDoohdah]

ok.we saw him this afternoon.it started lovely and ended awful.he gave me money then I had to use it to take it out.flame me and yell at me now.I agreed to soft play pub.boys played, we had some wine.anaesthetic for me.I knew what needed to be done.but for an hour our so I went down memory lane and boys played happily. I told myself you were all drama queens and I was ok, boys were ok. then youngest hurt his arm in soft play.stbxh cuddled etc but ultimately looked annoyed and that ss was looking for attention.I was thinking hospital? and wow how quick health visitor would be onto us then if presented at a and e with dislocated arm!..would not have stopped me, but he got better, has happened before and have had hospital advice.not at hands of Dad, hasten to add. anyway, I went to loo.came back and stbxh is pointing in face of older ds and doing his glaring dark eyes.I wanted to shout "enough"..when d went to play,stbxh started ranting about how he was to go and threaten his boss tonight and I just started to question his logic, his values.obviously did not go down well.I heard him, mid rant.in front of waiters, saying to me to not answer back or I will see what happens when I do. I saw he was knocking drinks back and basically told him to go and I would arrange a way home for me and boys. my lovely Dad turned up to get us.rightly or wrongly, I told him he could only see the boys with me there and that if he challenged me legally,I would contact ss. he calmed a bit then and said never contact ss, we can sort contact between us. this is after he said, at least 3 times this evening, that he will never see boys again. hooray I hear you all shout.but I heard him, saw him look me in the eye and tell me I am building all this up, that I have a problem.saw the text he set my Dad thanking him for picking me and boys up and sorry that it came to that....can see him thinking that an basically a bit mad, and am feeling that I am.I take what you have ask said, but I don't know how to stand up to this, he is so confident and charismatic.makes me feel am going mad.help me

[DippyDoohdah]

I don't want to go to work I want to hide for a few days.if I had some time,I could anonymous call ss

[DippyDoohdah]

I love my sons far more than I could have loved him

[Alambil]

Dippy the very people who CAN help you in REAL LIFE are Social Care. You KNOW that.

Call them.

During your lunch hour, or take the day off sick, if your partner isn't around

You are NOT MAD. He is making you feel this way - he is controlling everything still.

Remember, this is the most vulnerable time for you all so whatever you do; stay safe.

Call Social Care tomorrow, please.

[hebetrayedme]

Social Care are unlikely to intervene yet. YOU need to act by stopping contact. That's what they will tell you.

[Offred]

Look, you are not mad. It doesn't matter what your dad believes or thinks. I really wish you would listen that all this pussyfooting around and pandering to him is not helping, you are just enabling him to harm your children and prolonging the misery. He needs to be presented with a choice to change and begin acting in their best interests or to bugger off. This does not have to be as dramatic as it sounds, it can be gradual but you cannot supervise the contact. There is just no way it will work. You need space from him to heal, he won't listen to you when you try to stick up for the children and it will make him worse, make him focus on you being the problem in his mind rather than his terrible behaviour. Get some separation, he needs to be told by "the system" that what he is doing isn't ok, if he is going to fight anything then it will be the system rather than you and it will help protect the children a little bit and please, please, please don't drink wine in the pub with the children when he is there; you a. Need to keep your wits about you, b. need to make sure he is not drinking at contact which you cant if you drink too and c. Know what "the system" will say about that, you need to be whiter than white and as together as you can be.

[Opentooffers]

So I hope you now realise how stressful supervising these visits would be for you, so why take that task on? Looking through the thread there seems a fixation here that you know you 'have to' supervise him. But you don't, so just don't now you've tried it and it hasn't worked - he still shouted and finger waved in your DS face. You fear him, that's understandable as he is so nasty. Sorry if it seems harsh to say, but as you cannot and do not and have not stood up to him for a long time now, what use are you as a supervisor? Arrange for someone else to do it in an official capacity, or no visits at all.

[Opentooffers]

Plus I suggest you cut out the drinking if it is so mind-altering that it makes you decide we are all "drama queens". Seems odd to be drinking in a bar while the kids play on there own as a suggested 'visit', where's the interaction from Dad during that? These are places adults go for a rest and a chat whilst the kids go off and play by themselves, hardly quality time spent together. It makes me wonder if alcohol is factor generally too - mood swings, flash anger - would explain a few things.

[DippyDoohdah]

the several posts above are all right..I know that.an seeing health visitor today.I know I was wrong to drink and I can see that alcohol creeping back in as his current drug of choice. he told me I am focusing on the negatives and blowing out of proportion the past. I have stood up to him, but he hates it and will not back down to anyone.seeing health visitor later, feel sick all over again

[DippyDoohdah]

right. I called ss just now.I told them everything and I gave them my details.she said does not meet child protection criteria but is emotional and domestic abuse and I have to act now.so I will stop supervising contact, he can see them at a contact centre and I will request, through my solicitor, that he attends a parenting and anger management course.of he refuses these, he is opting to not see them.am also self referring to freedom programme.

[hebetrayedme]

Well done you. A very brave step.

[Offred]

Well done dippy, it will be hard but by stepping out a little bit you'll let someone else hopefully take some of the strain of it and you'll be able to get support for you. X

[olgaga]

Have lurked on here for a while. Just wanted to say you are a brave woman Dippy, but rather too forgiving for your own good. I also think that your professional experience has perhaps clouded your instincts in this personal matter.

As your children grow and they become even more verbal and annoying, the risk to them will also increase.

I am pleased you have taken action now before the danger to them escalates further.

Please don't give this man any more chances.

[cestlavielife]

well done for taking action - you ahve seen how you supervising it goes wrong. he needs to be seeing them properly supervised where the contact centre people can see how he is and report to SS.
you are on a long road...it aint gonna be easy but stick to your guns so your dc can be safe and see him safely.

[Jux]

Stay strong now, Dippey. You have done the right thing now, and you need to stay on this path.

He is a very dangerous man, and fwiw, I really do think that you will all be much better off if he is completely out of your lives forever.

Please call the police if he kicks off again, though I hope he never gets the opportunity to do so when any of you are there.

[DippyDoohdah]

thank you all for your support, will update for a bit as it spurs me on getting the support, thank you. I have been guilty of focusing on the good and not the bad and it has been a very emotionally abusive relationship ever since children born.think he wanted me all to himself, but that will never happen and I am starting to feel ok with that now.I am sure that as the distance grows I will go through lots of different emotions about how I let it get to this. really hope I get on the freedom programme,I called a few Weeks ago and nothing back, have just called again.
its one of my sons birthdays this week..is 5.do I write a card and gift from Daddy or just leave it?

[cestlavielife]

jsut write a card from you .

if he wants to send him a card he can.
you not together any more.