My fault for being tired and stressed?

[incidentalcontinental]

Me and my fiance haven't had sex since the 17th of September and my only excuse, apart from being away for a week with my friend, is that I'm just bloody knackered and stressed and, at the end of the day, just don't feel up to it. I'm also on quite a high dose of anti-depressants, which I know doesn't help. The stress and tiredness are coming from the fact that we're getting married in a fortnight and I'm trying to get as much of my PhD done before we go away on honeymoon as possible. Before all this, we were doing it 1-2 times per week, and our sex life was good. I thought this was fine, but he said it was nowhere near that much (I beg to differ). He's a good, kind man, but I hate the way he is when I don't respond to sexual advances. If I'm trying to sleep and he starts making moves on me and I don't respond, he just turns the other way and huffs really loudly. This morning he was really in a mood with me and said we've got a big problem.

I understand that he needs love and intimacy as much as any of us, but I feel really upset that he's getting angry for me for being tired. What am I meant to do? When I'm so knackered I can barely walk to bed? Just man up and get on with it for his sake? I feel that's wrong, but I know he feels I don't want him. I'm sure I'll feel better soon, but right now I don't know what to say or do. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm 27.

Garlic's right: he's demonstrated that he is completely unreasonable and untrustworthy, so you need to take steps to put him in his place legally and not waste any time worrying about his hurt feelings.

I'd strongly advise having any future meetings that you can't get out of, in a public place, for one thing. Keep contact with him to a minimum (email only, and strictly regarding DC/finance issues, nothing else). Ignore texts and phone calls, shut the door in his face if he turns up uninvited and don't be afraid to call the police at any sign of aggression. Unfortunately, men who are really sexually entitled do sometimes rape the partners who have had the nerve to leave them.

The trouble is with abusers' programmes is that they very rarely work, and they often make the abuser more abusive, just in a different way. For instance, he will start doing the 'Oh but I've changed, I'm doing the programme' and if you don't immediatlely drop to your knees and start sucking his cock out of sheer gratitude, he will accelerate directly to 'You evil bitch, you won't give me a chance, you're breaking up the family.' Etc. And if he hits you it will be your fault for not having forgiven him already...

What abusers need to understand (and rarely if ever can they cope with this concept) is that their partners are people and as such completely entitled to refuse sex and end the relationship. You are under no obligation to forgive this man or be anything other than civil to him. When he insists he's changed, if you engage at all, say 'THat's good, for your own sake, but the relationship is still over.'

Ellielie are you ok?

yes, I am, thanks fuckadoodle. He was contrite. Thing is, I still don't think he understands how badly this is affecting me (one of his complaints is often to say he feels like it is between us if he'd had an affair or something - I see what he means - but he doesn't get the gravity of the sex pestering... he sees it as understandable, even when he's terribly sorry for upsetting me.. do you see what I mean?) I don't know whether or not to show him this thread! Could cause problems - who wants your personal life and character being pulled apart by strangers!? But then, I can't seem to convince him that my feelings are LEGITIMATE. It's crazy.

It all comes down to how he was treated as a kid, unfortunately.

Thanks so much for asking. xx

Do you understand exactly how and why it is affecting you so badly? There may be underlying things which you haven't realised. To be attracted to thoughtless bullies you have probably got some issues of your own.

Not saying at all that that justifies his behaviour but that getting to the bottom of your issues would be a boon for you and make dealing with DH much easier.

But it doesn't really matter if he doesnt' get it as it is what you want that matters and he shouldn't keep wanting explanations.

It all sounds exhausting - can you just stay away from each other for a while?

His problems are, well, his problem. He doesn't get to stick his dick in you just because he's feeling a bit twagic today.

No 'cure' for misery or past trauma can be obtained by making another person suffer - women, especially, are all too often expected to 'love' damaged men into wellness, by never complaining, never asking for anything, and opening their legs every time the man tells them to do so. This is wrong because YOU MATTER JUST AS MUCH AS HE DOES.

Ellelie, I'm glad you're doing okay.

If it's all to do with his childhood, then the answer is for him to grow up and get some therapy to deal with it, not pester you for sex and make you feel like your wishes are invalid.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but as someone who used to have major issues myself, it's just not fair to project them onto your adult relationships.

I would be extremely worried about marrying someone who, as you say, does not respect your feelings as legitimate. Even if it's just in this one area, it's just such a minefield. If you can't get through to him now, I doubt you'll have any more luck after you're married.

It's another sad story of entitlement, knowledge of your partner, and desire for monogamy.

Both men and women can feel the lack of intimacy with their partner. It's difficult, but understandable for someone to say if not now, then when? And that can put people off.

Often this pushes people into the gatekeeper role. "we only do it when you want". One suggestion I've seen is take initiation in turn.

If you genuinely want sex so much less than your partner, you do end in a place where you should decide if a monogamous relationship is fair on both of you. If it isn't, be open about that.

I'd quibble with SGB 's assertion abou the preponderance of entitled men; there's an awful lot of sex bargaining, gate keeping women there. I'd advise any bloke who gets involved with someone like that, to get clear. Neither of them will try enjoy that sort of sex.

Seriously? Women who don't have sex when they don't feel like it are gatekeeping???

That attitude only makes sense if you believe that the default status is having sex whenever the man feels like it, thus the woman saying no is (oh please) closing some kind of gate.

If you presume that people have sex whenever both partners are up for it, then a woman saying no to sex is simply a woman saying no to sex. She's not interested and doesn't want to do it. I can't see how anyone who respects that as a valid choice would ever call it gatekeeping or sex bargaining.

The OP is temporarily not feeling like having sex because she's under a huge amount of stress. To not respect this as a valid choice when it's temporary and being clearly communicated reveals a pretty entitled attitude on the part of a man.

dreamingbohemian

Seriously? Women who don't have sex when they don't feel like it are gatekeeping???

Sorry, who said that?
I said there were a lot of gatekeeping women out there cf. there are a lot of entitled men.

Looms like you're reading something that's not there.
I suggested taking turns to initiate which takes lots of pressure off both of them.

I don't think any woman should be referred to as a sexual gatekeeper. The term itself is ridiculous.

My gut reaction to that expression, dreaming, is also offence. But, whatever my views on sexual relationship politics, it's a fact that many women cheerfully admit to using sexual favours/withdrawal as a negotiating tool.

I do think it's a bit naive to expect all sex to be always mutually desired by both parties simultaneously. The real issue is respect.

women cheerfully admit to using sexual favours ... I'm sure men do it, too, I've just never heard them boasting about it.

Obviously some people use sex with some kind of agenda in mind.

I don't consider a woman forced to constantly say no to a sex pest partner as having an agenda, negotiating, bargaining or anything else. She simply does not want to have sex. To attach labels and agendas to it diminishes the validity of that choice.

I picked up the term on Relationships, so I apologise if you don't like it. Is it your contention that people don't ever act in that way?

I believe I just explained what I think (15:06)

And if you think I'm the only one who might object to it, I dare you to ask about it in Feminism

I didn't mean to imply any of the posters to this thread were bargaining with sex, Dreaming. I was responding to OMC's point and your reply. I think some people do what he's described as 'gatekeeping' and am aware of it as a term used in discussions about relationships. The only thing we seem to differ on is vocabulary ...

Thanks garlicbaguette

I suspect most of us agree on this thread; just some people can start an argument in a bucket. On their own.

As can be seen in the 1506 post. Oh, and I am quite happy to join in discussions in FWR, though I try not to start any there.

As I said, I picked up the term here. Another poster has recognised the behaviour. I suggested an approach which may help to negate pressure (although I am told privately that even this leads to tit-for-tat. "you said no last time; I will this time").

OK, let's just clarify that pestering a person for sex is 100% guaranteed to put them off the idea. Also that having sex with a partner who is not enthusiastically participating is violence and may even be rape. Sulking, raging and otherwise punishing a partner for not wanting sex is abusive, not to mention shocking manners and a permanent turn-off. (It's abusive because it's an attempt to bully them into having different feelings - which is insane, if you think about it.)

On the other hand, there are some people who use sex as a manipulative tool. Some of us have heard women proudly admitting to this, though we accept that some men must do it too. If the sex-as-reward model works for both partners, fine and fair. If one of them feels victimised by it, it's probably dysfunctional.

Plus, mismatched libido is a genuine problem in some relationships. In such cases it's far better for the couple to address it openly, with tolerance, and to reach a mutually considerate solution which may include taking turns, like OMC's friends.

Phew! I really hope that's okay ...

He is trying to bully you into having sex, do you see how fucked up that is? Do you really think his attitude will change once you marry him?

He wants you to let him have sex with you, despite knowing that you don't want to. They are not the actions of a 'good man!'

I believe I have said elsewhere on this thread that some people use sex as a bargaining tool or as a way of manipulating the partner. That's clearly not what's happening to the OP, though.

Also OMC: bear in mind that for hundreds, if not thousands of years, women were told to act as 'gatekeepers' and repeatedly instructed that 'decent' women didn't actually like sex, they just put up with it in order to be fed and housed by a male owner. And those who took a different approach were at serious risk of being punished, either by loss of reputation or by being assaulted or even killed.

Sometimes I just need a 'like' button, SGB.

Agree with all 4 posts prior to this one.