My fault for being tired and stressed?

[incidentalcontinental]

Me and my fiance haven't had sex since the 17th of September and my only excuse, apart from being away for a week with my friend, is that I'm just bloody knackered and stressed and, at the end of the day, just don't feel up to it. I'm also on quite a high dose of anti-depressants, which I know doesn't help. The stress and tiredness are coming from the fact that we're getting married in a fortnight and I'm trying to get as much of my PhD done before we go away on honeymoon as possible. Before all this, we were doing it 1-2 times per week, and our sex life was good. I thought this was fine, but he said it was nowhere near that much (I beg to differ). He's a good, kind man, but I hate the way he is when I don't respond to sexual advances. If I'm trying to sleep and he starts making moves on me and I don't respond, he just turns the other way and huffs really loudly. This morning he was really in a mood with me and said we've got a big problem.

I understand that he needs love and intimacy as much as any of us, but I feel really upset that he's getting angry for me for being tired. What am I meant to do? When I'm so knackered I can barely walk to bed? Just man up and get on with it for his sake? I feel that's wrong, but I know he feels I don't want him. I'm sure I'll feel better soon, but right now I don't know what to say or do. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm 27.

It does rather seem to me that if he's just come back after a few days away and you're thinking "oh god, he's going to want sex now" rather than welcoming the chance to be close to him, that really isn't a great basis for entering into marriage. Even if it were some failing in you - though I absolutely believe it isn't - it's definitely a sign that Something Is Not Right and you ought to listen to that.

Putting that ring on your finger won't make it all magically come right, you know. You'll sleepwalk into the wedding because it's all planned n stuff and you can't let people down, and then you'll find yourself alone in your honeymoon suite with him and realise he now thinks he officially owns your body and you will never have an excuse he regards as good enough not to want sex, ever again, and go all "eurk" instead of "whoopee, rest of lives together, this is great!"

I wish someone whose opinion I respected had said this to me 29 years ago. (And that I'd have listened if they had.)

If DH started doing that after I'd turned him down I would be extremely annoyed as I would feel it was being done as a deliberate and pointed exercise to make me feel bad.

Ellielie. That's ok. Apparently i wrote it on the other thread anyway.

I love breaking bad!

I don't know about you but my children go to bed at 8 and one of them is often still awake half hour later. Then i have to make the lunches and perhaps tidy up. I also sometimes work in the evenings and also do the ironing etc. By the time everything is done, even on the days Im not working, i need to relax! So i often watch something on telly to chill out.

I can't go from putting kids to bed and doing the chores to suddenly relaxed enough to have sex! I bet you can't either.

There is no bigger turn off than pressure.

Like i said before (i think, tying myself in knots writing some things on one thread and some on another!) he is on medication for his depression which stops him being so extreme about it. It wasn't instant but i have found that he is more understanding of when Im not in the mood and there hasn't been that atmosphere for a while. I think i actually have more of an appetite for it now. Probably a combination of not feeling so pressured and the children not being babies anymore.

Ellielie. There's another recent thread about blokes obsessed with sex here . . .

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1584413-Hes-obsessed-with-sex?pg=1&order=

I think the clearest indication that the problem is not so much mismatched libidos as the man being an entitled, selfish, sexist arsehole is when you have told him that you are tired and suggested he do more domestic work and childcare - and he a) won't do it because he 'works hard' and earns more than you do therefore you are his servant or he washes up one saucepan and then gets his cock out. It's about respect, and some men simply don't have any for women.

I owe a debt of gratitude to a lot of posters here (thank you), but fuckadoodle, I just want to say thanks particularly because you've made me feel as if I might have a point and that I'm not being a frigid, unreasonable, joyless cow who's denying him his human rights (that is how I've felt, at times). Your experience seems to mirror mine so much (totally agree about the short evenings that are full of chores) and, interestingly, my partner has often wondered if he has some kind of depression (and certainly does have a depressed father and siblings, who are all on medication). Do you think depression is linked to this attitude to sex?

I KNOW I would feel more up for it if he showed genuine respect and compassion for me and there was no pressure. I hope that day will come - I certainly don't want to live a sexless life! Luckily for him!!!

Thanks xx

Please help me, please help me. You know I told you that he'd come back from two nights away and he would be expecting sex. I didn't do it )although I should have, I should have because I would have liked to really but had found myself annoyed about past events and was kind of deliberately not doing ot) and he was very moody but didn't say anything much and then tonight I said no cos I'm genuinely toooo tired and he went mad saying the pressure I get is my fault cos I have no passion (he also pointed out the pressure is not the same as it was 3 years ago which is prob true) and complained we haven't had sex for two weeks (which I think is quite good going for parents of small kids, bit not him). He's just stormed out and into the spare room saying "this is bigger than you think" and then I've heard him ranting in there saying things like "dull" and "pointless" (describing me). What the fuck am I going to do? please help; very upset very worried, very scared.

Ps i must say, he is a good man. Looks after the kids more than me (I'm 'breadwinner') does housework etc. He's also a kind man, a lovely partner in so many ways. Shit. I just feel so upset (and so does he)

Ellielie. I can't say about your h but with mine yes it was linked to his depression. I think that when we hadn't done it for a while (or he thought we hadn't, as his perception didn't match mine), he instantly felt awful and unloved and worthless. I think. Feeling worthless is something he struggles with anyway.

I said on one of the other threads that he would find things to focus his depression on to explain his feelings so that could be sex or work etc.

I know if i were reading about him i would probably think it was just an excuse and that he was an arsehole and i must admit to thinking your h hasn't come across well either. Its different when you are in the situation though.

I think sometimes my dh got too used to how i was in that way in the beginning of our relationship (had sex more partly to keep him happy although he may not have known that) and once it became impossible for me to keep up and then later when i started to assert myself more, it was difficult for him to adjust to this new me.

I do find that i am still annoyed about the pressure that was in the air when our children were babies. I wasn't well (mentally) so it was the last thing i needed. He also still goes on about sex too much. Like if i leave sexy shoes out he mentions it and makes jokes. Things like that are a bit much but i also know its a habit.

I can see him trying but he's one of these people who take ages and ages and ages to adjust to any sort of change. My gp said that can be a depression thing too.

I don't know about your dh but if its in his family then he should probably consider it a possibility. At the moment though he's acting like an arse and its hardly surprising that you don't find it sexy!

What does bigger than you think mean?

Also have you thought about writing it all down. About feeling the pressure and what a turn off it is. How going for a few days without sex won't suddenly change that as it will be gradual and take time for you not to feel as though you are being timed until you're in the mood again. Etc etc

I found with my h we used to go through a cycle where things would be fine and then every few months it would become an issue again. I wish i had written it down for him because i would be repeating the same stuff every few months and it never bloody went in.

Even with my history of sexual abuse he didn't entirely get that i needed not to be treated as a sex object. That i found it hard to be assertive so any tiny bit of pressure, even unspoken, made me feel awful.

The whole dynamic was messed up.

Plus he'd watched way too much porn in his life (which I've been educating him on) I can't be treated like that with my history. It must be weird for him because i was happy to dress up and do this and that in porno style . . . and now Im not. He's seeming to have grasped that now and we have a lot more cuddly sex.

Anyhoo got to sleep. Hope you are ok. Sorry for the rant and any typos, not time to check.

Are you OK, Ellie? If you are scared that this man is going to physically attack you or have sex on your body against your wishes, phone the police. You are not property. He is not entitled to shove his cock in you just because he wants to.

He doesn't appear to be doing anything to make you feel more inclined to want sex; pressuring you, whining and tantrumming is completely unerotic. So he is either clueless about women and doesn't consider them human, or sex is not actually what he wants at all, and the constant pestering for it is actually a way of making you unhappy, scared and demoralised.

I don't know! I think he means it really very very badly affects him, he can't take the rejection, as he sees it (although I do think I'm a kind and loving partner at all times so I find it hard to imagine how it makes him feel because he has my genuine love and that's the important bit. I'm not abusing him). I know he doesn't come across well but that scares me because him being completely wrong is actually harder to deal with than me being in the wrong. I can change myself but not him. I don't know how to make him see this the way I do.

I'm so glad you're up to reply! Thank you

Not much advice as agree with most advice before me, just solidarity from me.

My h used to 'need' alot of sex to feel like the relationship was ok for him. I ended up with no sex drive at all as kept placating him & having awful sex. It ended up that my sex drive was inversely proportional to his, like mine was running away (!). It ended up physically hurting as I was so turned off & he was so oblivious to my state of mind.

We did marriage councelling & I was trying to explain this through the councillor when she came out & said 'can't you see he feels rejected, you are manipulating him by with holding sex'!!! Lovely lady, & lovely h... Don't have a relationship with either now.

Point being, the idea that women should have sex to keep/ please their man is entrenched in our culture & it's insidious, do it once & you'll end up with no desire at all, & no way back from if.

It's not sexy for a man to not care about how you feel. It's not nice either. Hope you ok.

Oh & also my last post also suggests you vet your counsellors carefully too - obviously good ones don't think that...

Doublelife. That's scary that your counsellor said that! Were they qualified?

I think you explain what a turn off it is really well.

Also, men who are happy to have sex on the body of a woman who would really rather they didn't, tend not to be much cop at it. Though it's hard to say which is worse: the man who just wants to stick his cock in and pump away, or the one who spends ages fiddling about with you and trying to be all 'erotic' about it when you just want it over and done with.
And it has a cumulative effect, the more tedious and uncomfortable the sex gets, the less you want it, the more the man pesters and whines (while ignoring any requests from you to modify his behaviour outside the bedroom).... the more poisoned the marriage becomes.

Of course, this isn't to say that there are never cases of people witholding sex from partners out of malice or the wish to control the partner or hurt him/her. But the most common situation is the one of the entitled man who thinks the woman exists for his benefit.

Blimey Hilde!

Hilde! Sounds like you've lost approx 13 stone of excess weight ...

Wow what an arse hilde complete gob smacking arsery... Ugh, & well done you for binning him

Well done Hilde!!!

Oh, YES! Is it worth telling a sexual harasser to get stuffed? I think so! Especially if you have the misfortune to have married him. Even more so once you've had the good sense to dump him

I'm sorry he upset you. If he wants a shag, he should keep that information to himself! Why not warn him formally to stop harassing you? Then you can report him to the cops when if he does it again ... try Rights Of Women for advice.