The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Turning Over Autumn Leaves In Search For Our Own Personal Sobriety

[Mouseface]

Hello, I'm mouse and my best friend used to be vodka. We were inseparable at the time, such fun! Wild nights out, wild nights in..... danger, excitement, strangers, not knowing where I was when I woke up, oh it was all so fantastic.....

Not the case for the last couple of years or so, since I found this Bus.

Now, we are practically strangers. Don't get me wrong, I still abuse alcohol and use it to self-medicate which completely defeats all of the work I've put in, trying to see my life through sober eyes but that's just how I do things......

Anyway, that's enough about me so why not come say hello to the others on the Bus, we're all at different stages of drinking, not drinking or complete abstinence (of the drinking kind!)

No-one on the Bus wears judgy pants, nylon bloomers, leopard skin thongs? Maybe...... I wouldn't like to ask to be honest! But we are all here for the very same reason, we can't (or don't want to) control our drinking like 'normal' people do.

If you'd like to see how this all started, why not have a look HERE and read about one of the most inspirational ladies you'll ever 'know'.

You can also follow the threads, one by one, by clicking on the links on each thread towards the end, leading to the next etc......

See you soon x

A conservative estimate - i.e. not allowing any extra for pub drinking, Xmas, birthday etc, and not including any of the non-drink costs (fruit machines, buying drinks for strangers so I could have company, taxis home from the wrong train stations, new clothes to replace ruined ones ...) would be about £20k-25k at 2001 prices.

The more I think about it, the more I think that controlled drinking is a myth. No one does it; alcoholics can't do it and non-alcoholics don't do it. NORMAL DRINKERS DO NOT CONTROL THEIR DRINKING - THEY DO NOT NEED TO. They drink what they want and then stop. Amazing, eh? They genuinely don't want to drink more than that.

Morning babes, not checked in for a couple of days and missed loads.

SAF - Congratulations on your new Job and MOUSE on your weight loss, well done all babes on your sobriety 2 days to 10 years!

Thank you again for sharing your stories and advice. This bus is truly amazing I've been on it 11 days only 1 slip up on Friday when I drank 3 glasses of wine with a friend - I suppose if I'm honest this was planned as I never commiteed to not drinking that day. What's even more remarkable is that it hasn't been anything like as hard as usual - the key things that have helped have been - odaat - this has made a huge difference to me as opposed to setting goals way in the future which is hugely demotivating and prone to rebellion!! I feel like an awful lot of pressure has been taken off by not thinking into the future (well what will I do at so and sos birthday etc etc) Also just identifying and accepting when the danger time is and getting past it - for me it's between 7pm and 8.45pm if I get past that time without opening the bottle I am home and dry (excuse the pun) so really I am only looking at a very small part of the day to deal with cravings and if I busy myself then I may only think if it a few times.

Also the idea of committing to not drinking today in the morning not leaving the door open for the wine witch to convince me of the benefits of drinking in the afternoon.

Couple of things I wanted to mention - Ellie - white wine is my downfall, I seem to lose control on this drink, I can stop at 3 but once I am passed my cut off 3 or 4 glasses there is no stopping me, if I am on a night out I can reach that cut off pretty quickly, I won;t stop because I am out then I will continue to drink until I am very drunk and invariably embarrass myself. I have found that if I drink gin and tonic or something instead on a night out it always ends better. Are some drinks more addictive than others I wonder or just stronger - I suppose the chemical is just the same.

The Alan Carr book - I have read this, I took some good stuff from it and it did make me look at alcohol in a different light - particularly as a drug which has a major grip on our society. I read the AC stopping smoking book which was amazing and I stopped cold turkey straight away easily after about 15 years non stop smoking - I expected the same results from the drinking book however I felt he just used the same methods and similar analogies which didn't really translate to alcohol properly so yes whilst I took some stuff from it I was fundamentally disapointed. This was just ME though and it sounds like it has really worked for Many babes. Personally have gained so much more just by being on this bus for a few days and will certainly stick around if you all don't mind. I am not drinking today. Much love and care - Greeneyed xxx

Incidentally - revisiting the "how much cash have you saved?" - the amounts are about right but the basis of them is shockingly wrong.

"A couple of pints/a bottle of wine" - to drink on £5 a day (which in 2001 I could do, at a push and with a bit of cunning) it would be a litre or two bottles of gut-rot wine for a fiver (possible when I stopped) or a "special offer" of 6 cans of Stella or 4-5 cans of super-cider that has never so much as brushed against an apple in the warehouse. I would probably then congratulate myself at being so controlled and not spending more than I could afford ...

The thought that I would place quality and enjoyment over the quantity of ethanol involved was, even when I was in denial, a ridiculous one.

Of course, if I had £10 or £20, then pub drinking would replace home drinking and decent wine would replace rubbish; but it was definitely quantity first, quality second.

Day 2 for me. Having felt pretty miserable about myself for most of the day yesterday, after coming on here I felt much stronger.

I went home and ate some good food with my daughter. Relaxed for a while and then we both went out for a brisk walk under a beautiful starry sky. It was so much fun and so much nicer than drowning myself in wine.

Slept well and woke up feeling much fresher. Have plans to cook and some jobs to do tonight so will not be drinking today.

Hope everyone has a good day

Well done lelli.

You are making the right decision and you know it - but do not underestimate the scale of the change you are making.

Until recently you have probably addressed every single problem, from family deaths to double glazing cold calls and broken shoelaces, with alcohol.

Now, one day at a time, you are committing to addressing all your problems (though hopefully no deaths on the horizon!) without alcohol.

At times, that will seem hard, unfair or even unnatural.

You will want to drink and you will start to doubt your decision.

This is all entirely normal. It doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision or that you're doing it wrong.

The only thing you can "do wrong" is actually to believe the hype and take a drink, because the first drink will make the second one easier to have.

One day at a time (or, if necessary, one minute at a time), don't have a drink, stay grateful and then get to an AA meeting or whatever replaces AA meetings in your own solution (talk to a friend, talk to a priest, go for a walk, kick a filing cabinet, whatever.)

You can do this. Stay with it. The best is yet to come.

the scary thing is that that thinking started for me in my mid teens miflaw - the standing in a shop working how much money you had and how you could buy the most alcoholic effect with that sum. i remember doing it with a friend every time we got together to drink of an afternoon.

i can't do the 'my first drink' thing because my first drink was a cap of drambuie as a 6 week old baby to knock me out so the other kids would go to sleep at a family party. beyond that i don't remember a time when i wasn't allowed alcohol in one form or another - watered down wine on holiday in france, homemade wine with sunday dinner, a tot of champagne in a little liqueur glass to feel part of it, swigs of dad or grandad's beer. it was always there. by the time i was at secondary school i would come in from school and sneak a drink from the drinks cabinet and curl up with the cat watching telly with a sippy drink beside me and on it went.

i'm afraid my experience makes me very anti the idea that if you give kids booze all their lives and don't make a big deal of it they'll be fine with alcohol. i'm more prone towards the camp that says giving children alcohol changes how their brain works and makes them more prone to addiction later. neither of my parents or any relatives i know of are alcoholic but have churned out two daughters with alcohol problems. would say two alcoholics but it's not for me to 'diagnose' my sister.

hope everyone is doing ok. thanks for the congrats.

I drank as a child (with dinner on holiday, for shock when my dad died, in the pub with adults) too. I don't know if it had a negative effect on me; but it certainly didn't work at helping me drink sensibly!

I count my first drink as the first time I put my own money across the bar at a family wedding when I was nearly 17. The result? Absolute carnage. That rarely changed from then on, even if the degree to which it mattered fluctuated.

MIFLAW Thanks. You are so right about me using alcohol to deal with problems. I've done it to one extent or another since the age of 16.

Last night I had to pick my daughter (20 year old who almost never drinks like her 16 year old sister) up from her Dad's and she wanted some Diet Coke from the local shop on the way home. I was soooo close to buying wine..I even said to my daughter that I would get some and then I just thought NO! I don't even want it. I want a lovely evening sharing great food with my lovely daughter and then a walk under the stars where we can share all sorts of stuff and I can be lucid and fun and a good mother. I NEED to remember that I felt so much better doing that than drinking. I NEED to keep finding other coping strategies that are so much more enjoyable than drinking.

saf great to hear about your new job, congrats! I was allowed small amounts of alcohol when I was younger and used to do the drinks cabinet raid thing too. I am still not sure what makes some people more susceptible. My mother has drunk too much all her life but my Dad is more controlled. My two sisters have alcohol issues but my daughters do not so far (thank the universe). Amongst my friends there are plenty who can take it or leave it and others who (like me) find it hard to stop.

Congratulations saf!
Reading about first experiences of alcohol here and trying not to focus on my own experiences as they are not typical.
I was take it or leave it for years- literally, I'd go to a party with or without a bottle, rarely drank alone, didn't control my drinking because I didn't have to.

I don't know whether that's denial, I'm pretty sure not, but the important thing is that for alcoholics, and I definitely am one, it's what it was like at the end of my drinking that matters. I know that I can't go back to the way it was for years, one drink and it'll be like it was at the end not the beginning.

Helpyourself, clearly the right way to look at things.

I am compelled to feel my early experiences are significant, Both parents drank daily, dad is most certainly an alcoholic though not in the whiskey for breakfast or controllable behaviour kind of way but 8 cans of beer a day (or more at weekends) for life sort of thing. I was given bits of alcohol early on and my dad used to send me over the road to the pub to pick up a pint for him when I was around 16 (and get one for myself - thanks dad). What strikes me is I grew up in a world where I believed it was normal to drink everyday, as soon as you walked in from work. I started drinking vodka before bed when I was about 15 and before exams to get to sleep or relax, following my parents example that was what booze was for. People who didn't drink were sneered about as being boring, puritans etc - It really wasn't until I met my husband in my late 20s who's family mostly didn't drink (which I found bizarre and nicknamed them the Waltons, thought badly of them etc) that it dawned on me this is not the way everyone lives their lives. and now I see that it is NOT normal to drink everyday at all. I don't want my son to grow up seeing people drink everyday either.

My parents actively encourage drinking by myself and sister, If I go around and I'm not drinking or not drinking much I guess it makes them feel bad or highlights their own drinking - most of the time I spent with my parents in my 20s we just got drunk together - I thought this was a laugh and other peoples parents were boring -

My mum even tried to encourage me to drink when I was pregnant! I'm not making excuses I know I make my own choices now.

Hello greeneyed It's interesting to read your experiences and I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. I also learnt that it was the done thing to drink every evening and I vividly remember my Mum telling me that if she didn't have her G & T's every day she would be on Vallium. She drank "quality" gin and the "best" malt whisky along with "decent" wine so it was acceptable....

"I vividly remember my Mum telling me that if she didn't have her G & T's every day she would be on Vallium." It's so odd, isn't it, how we sometimes say things and then don't follow them through to their logical conclusion; as if saying it discourages listening to it. That, to me, would once have been a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to say (not easy-going me, you understand, but someone else, probably a woman.) Now I would hear that and think, "so you're saying out loud that you use alcohol as a drug to help you cope with unmanageable feelings?"

Neither of my parents were alcoholics. Both drank on a daily basis, but so what? Lots of people did, lots of people do. I did too. The difference was that when they did it, it was a part of their life and no ill effects arose. When I did it, it WAS my life and it brought misery for everyone concerned, even quite casual passers-by.

I don't want my own family to be a drinking everyday family - I don't want my son to make the same mistakes. DH doesn't drink for three of 4 nights during the week which I think is okay, I don't mind my son seeing alcohol just not thinking it's normal to drink all the time.

Isn't it well documented that drinking everyday isn't good for you regardless of whether you are an alcoholic or not? - I don't think I'd be classed as an alcoholic but I have drank pretty much every day (illness and pregnancy aside) for my whole adult life (from 15) I have had times when that drinking has been heavy and more latterly where it would be considered moderate (usually two or three glasses of wine of an evening) - I still believe this has ill effects, i still believe I am dependent upon it and don't like my life being dictated by a substance (as in, I can't wait to get my son in to bed so I can have a glass of wine). I expect an awful lot of the lots of people who drink moderately everyday still wish they drank less. My teens and 20s were one huge alcohol binge and I want to avoid that for my son - If I can bring him up in a house where alcohol is not consumed as part of everyday life he might feel okay about abstaining some of the time and not under pressure that drinking is just what adults do, to enjoy themselves, relax etc etc.

Just checking in, read through but no time to reply at the mo. Day 4 and I will not be drinking...

Of course drinking every day is bad for you - I don't think anyone would deny that. But so is smoking, bacon sandwiches, lack of exercise; dozens of things that normal people do every day and sometimes die of and sometimes don't.

I can only speak for me but, if drinking was an unhealthy pleasure for me, I had no reason not to drink myself to death and laugh every step of the way.

I didn't stop drinking because it was bad for me - a doctor once told me I would be dead by 30 if I didn't stop drinking and I was in the pub later that same afternoon.

I stopped drinking, and stay stopped, because it destroyed my life and leeched every ounce of pleasure out of it in even the smallest of ways.

For me, that's what matters and that's what makes me an alcoholic. And that's why I don't try any more at "controlled drinking" or alcohol free lagers or alternating drinks with big glasses of water or taking a vitamin pill before bed. Drink had me beat at the age of 27 (probably before, but that's when I started to give in.) If other people enjoy it, even if it's ultimately bad for them, that isn't my business. But for me it spells misery so I stay away from it.

TBH, also, I think that most people who "wish they drank less" simply, you know, decide to drink less and then drink less.

For most people, it really isn't a wishing thing. It is a decision and action thing.

I know, I know - I didn't believe it myself at first either!

And for me just as thinking about how my drinking was quite atypical for an alcoholic until the end, thinking about other peoples' drinking is just a distraction from the fact that I can't drink. I can't learn anything from looking at other drinkers and I could kid myself that I could be just like them, or where's the harm we're all drinking more nowadays, or who wants to be a Puritan?
The only thing that matters is what alcohol does to me and how I ensure I won't pick up that first drink.

I'm really confused now Milflaw so are all the people who drink moderately I.e 2 or 3 drinks a night with seemingly no ill effect on their lives or others (health issues apart) however wish they drank less but can't seem to do this (I'm not the only one I know a number of friends and family who'll admit to falling into this category) well are we all alcoholics? I know the affects may not be as devestating but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as two groups of people alcoholics and non alcoholics, who can just take it or leave it. Apologies babes for the bus becoming quite theoretical now but I'm genuinely interested. Helpyourself I think you are right we need to look at how alcohol affects us individually and not use others as a yardstick. Going back to my original point however I do still attribute some of my attitudes to alcohol, daily drinking and bingeing to the attitude to alcohol in my family home, regardless of whether th jury is out as to whether this would create an alcoholic or not, I don't want to replicate that environment for my son, hence trying to stop everyday drinking now.

Interesting points.

I know what alcohol does to me and I know that I don't like it.

I also know that I'm the only one who can fix it and I could listen all day to the people around me who say ..oh you're fine just cut down a bit but that isn't working.

I have to be honest, I don't know. Maybe we're using words like "can't" and "unable" in different ways. I know my parents weren't alcoholics because I've seen what alcoholism does to homes and it never happened in theirs, but would have happened in mine if anyone had been stupid or unfortunate enough to marry me when I was active. Could they have cut down or stopped? Maybe, maybe not. It's irrelevant because they never needed to. I did need to for all sorts of reasons and yet, without help, it never seemed possible.

What I can tell you - what I've already told you - is what it was like for me; what happened; and what it's like now. I didn't stop drinking because it was bad for my liver, heart or waistline; I stopped drinking because it was literally driving me mad. As a result of doing so, my initial fears have proved unfounded and my life these days is unimaginably better than it was when I was drinking, notwithstanding the fact that I am currently breaking up with the mother of my two small children. But, equally, I know that it is all or nothing for me. I will never be able to drink safely or moderately and, today, I am fine with that.

Hope this helps someone.

Thank you for that MILFLAW, hope I wasn't coming across as confrontational just questioning as you have a lot of knowledge on the subject. Your story and advice is helpful. I have drank in a destructive way for a number of years (though principally to myself as opposed to others, mostly pre marraige/ kids) this tailed off principally for health reasons which forced the issue, now grounded with dh and DS and health issues meaning I suffer the effcts of too much alcoholic, I am a controlled drinker I suppose but only to the extent I can (usually but not always) restrict the quantity, I still feel beholden to it and that the negatives outwiegh the positives. Am I an alcoholic doing controlled drinking, who knows? I do know alcohol scares me and when I look at alcoholics who've lost everything I think there by the grace of god...

No problem, and no offence taken.

The main thing to remember is that problem drinkers never rid themselves of their problem. It is a downward slope. If you are a heavy binge drinker, the frequency increases until the binges practically join up; if you are a daily drinker, the quantities increase until you are practically binging daily. Some people manage to beat this; but the effects on their mental health are such that, personally, I'd rather go for it and die of the physical side of things.

There is an alternative and that is to stop and then address the issues in your life that drink was "helping" you with; and one way of doing this (and the only one that ever worked for me) is AA.

A phrase that you hear quite a lot in AA, incidentally, is "the YETS". I haven't become homeless - YET. I've never assaulted anyone in drink - YET. I've never killed anyone in a car crash - YET. I've never abandoned my child to get a drink - YET. The awareness that all of these things can happen to the best of us - "there but for the grace of God" etc - is what makes out-of-control drinkers so vulnerable and paranoid. They know that, if that moment ever comes, it will be no more than the luck of the draw how it finishes up. Self-control doesn't come into it.