I'm NOT in an abusive relationship but SS don't believe me!

[HeiferInCalf]

About a month ago I had a silly row with my DH over the phone about him being in the pub late (he rarely goes to the pub) and in a temper I decided to go to my mums for the night. She lives about two hours away.
DH came home to find me and DS gone, rang me to ask me to come home, I said no. He then rang my mom and said he too was going to drive to hers and take DS back. Despite me telling mom this was all just talk she rang the police.
They came over and asked me about 30 questions. Which apparently is standard procedure (things like does he hurt animals, has he ever made threats to you or your child) answered No to virtually everything as he is not violent or nasty. To cut a long story short the police classed this as a case of domestic violence which they automatically have to inform SS about. SS are now investigating me and DH. I've told them my DH has never physically hurt me, never threatened to hurt me but they REFUSE to believe me. Everything I say they twist to make it sound so much more dramatic. They tell me that night I was 'fleeing an abusive relationship' that 'I don't understand how serious the problems in my relationship are' because I was honest and told them that we occasionally row. ( who the F doesn't?!). They also tell me that if DH were to push me whilst arguing I could fall on DS and this puts him at 'significant risk of harm'.
DH feels like he is being unfairly demonised by everyone and I have to agree. The more they investigate, the more they seem to negatively elaborate every tiny detail. I've been very honest and co-operative with them so far but I'm reaching my wits end! So stressed!

[confuddledDOTcom]

Lueji, did you see that the licence is for guns at his father's house and there are no guns at home? Not so easy to pull a gun in anger if you've got to go and borrow it from Dad really, is it?

[AnxiousElephant]

I have to ask why your mum felt the need to ring the police ...... she must have felt that either your or ds where at risk, or that he would snatch your ds. Children being a pawn in marital disputes is harmful. Hearing lots of rows is unsettling and especially if they take place infront of him. Uprooting a presumably sleeping child late at night is not good either, particularly if you have nothing to fear from the partner when he arrives home. If you have that kind of temper then I would suggest you need help!
Yes it is normal to have disagreements but the majority of people have enough reasoning ability to discuss rather than shout and if it gets heated don't do it infront of dc.

[seaofyou]

Yes you are right anyone can lose their temper and suicide via shot gun is high amonst vets etc I am merely explaining the checklist to OP and why this 'major concern' as 'fire arms' scores high risk (naturally) hence SS great involvement and doing their job correctly which is nice to see...but I can see how this checklist could be scored wrongly in this situation as OP has explained, which is why I can see misunderstanding. OP needs to explain it from start to SS as they can see it doesn't add up and think this is a lot more? SS need the full truth OP otherwise it does look suspicious.

[Lueji]

It wouldn't be the first time someone goes out to get a gun and shoots somebody.
At his parents' still means access to guns.

The licence means he uses them and could easily have an excuse to get one.

That's why the question is there and is phrased like that.

[UnlikelyAmazonian]

OP, go to a Family Law solicitor straight away - you and your DH together. Seek some proper legal advice. A family law specialising in children is the best. You can goodle to find one local to you.

I am just going to assume that indeed this has been a hissyfit of some sort or a drama that has escalated - I am not going to presume or conjecture otherwise. I would just strongly advise that if SS have been on your case then a family law sol is the sensible option as the fact that you have sought legal advice also counts in your favour.

[confuddledDOTcom]

My OH has a licence, we don't have any here and I'm not sure he'd know where to get one if he needed one in anger. So no, having a licence doesn't necessarily mean that you can easily get one.

[seaofyou]

good advise UA.

It is a worry that SS could take the baby away over this possible harmless situation that DV and 'fire arms' being flagged up.

OP can dh give back his licence/gun to show no risk with fire arms in hope of risk being removed and SS happy and everyone know that next DV(row) no access to gun? or is it needed for his job?

[izzyizin]

From what the OP has said, there is NO issue over the dh's firearms certificiate nor, would it seem, has he been interviewed or asked to live apart from his dw and dc which would suggest that there is no reason to incur solicitors' fees until such time as SS have made their intention clear.

It may surprise some to learn that a gun is not needed to cause harm to another person and anyone who is intent on causing injury/death to another can do so using items that are readily accessible and available in the average home

[izzyizin]

as the fact that you have sought legal advice also counts in your favour

That's a double-edged sword, UA and I suspect that some here would see it as further evidence of guilt no smoke without fire.

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

its always no smoke without fire when it comes to ss on boards like this!

legal advice good to do though, as no one is acting for you in social services in this whole thing (which came as a shock to me as i thought me and my baby were almost the same person when so little, real different and very sad mindset).

Legal advice will help you find out what you are dealing with and whether ss are taking it further and what you need to do to help ss realise they don't need to be worried. it won't make them go away if there is some awful underlying abuse and lack of safety for your baby... but it will mean that you are on top of the situation, whats really happening and what they are looking for and thinking... better not to be in the dark on this, its too important

[Lueji]

Nobody said here that guns are the only danger.
Guns were discussed in the context of the police questions and it's mentioned there for a reason.
Nobody here knows how likely it is that t
OP's OH would go and get a gun.
Only pointing out that as an exercise of risk assessment (police, SS) having the guns at parents and being a farmer near Haringey may still be considered a risk, also depending on what was said on the phone that prompted a police call.

[Iamjezabel]

I don't think that anyone actually believes this man is a danger. They are discussing why SS have concerns and why they are valid.

[HeiferInCalf]

It always makes me smile that people seem to think there is no livestock or pastureland within a 200 mile radius of London. Seriously a 25 min car journey is all that's needed for anyone. Especially if you are going along the m1, m25, m11, a1(m) Does nobody notice that it is sheep and horses either sides of the motorway and not high rise flats?
Anyway that aside because it is irrelevant, my OH has NEVER given any indication that he would misuse a firearm. He takes the whole thing very seriously, won't even joke about it. (There is a bumper sticker/fridge magnet in some of the card shops that says 'I still miss my ex-husband but my aim is improving') He does not think jokes like this are at all appropriate. You can't make light of what is actually a serious threat. The firearms that are at his Dads are again a two hour drive away. It's not like in the heat of the moment he could just go and get them. Also the ammo is kept separately at a different farm .
I think the main question that keeps coming up is why did my mom feel the need to phone the police?
I am actually finding that question difficult to answer myself. I wasn't there when she did phone them and have no idea what was going through her head or what she said to them. Reflecting on all of this I'm guessing that because he said he was coming to collect DS and take him home, she perhaps thought he was going to 'snatch' him using force (maybe with his gun as she seems so obsessed by the fact he has one) I'm seriously starting to believe she has said more (either to SS or police) than she is letting on.
I would ask her but I really don't want her knowing SS are involved. God knows this drama has spiralled enough without adding fuel to the fire.
All I really wanted was a good nights sleep, a good old moan about my Husband not being there, poor me on my own all day, doing everything blah blah and the whole thing seems to have exploded spectacularly in my face.
I never thought it was that wired to p*ss off to your Moms in a huff. It's exactly what my mum did when I was a kid and she argued with my Dad. My GM also lives 2 hours away from moms (we are pretty scattered across the country). But from what I've seen on here other people don't see to think so? So that's something I need to look at.

P.s one of the posts said something about shouting in front of DS? Nobody ever said anything shouting at each other or even that when we do have rows they are heated or in front of him. ( Even though SS said I might be holding him and DH might push me and I might fall on DS) I might be thin and blonde one day, that's also highly unlikely!

[amillionyears]

Thanks for posting back again.

I personally do not think it is that unusual to go to mums when things get tough,even if it is 2 hours away.Like others have said,everyone is different about driving and car journeys,and young and older children often sleep on long car journeys,so lets hope ss isnt at all concerned about that.

Your mum,on the other hand,may well be a problem.
What are her fears,rational or otherwise?Does she think your DH is going to shoot you or the baby one day?

Im not sure whether you should talk to her soon or not.
What does your DH say about your mum?

[titchy]

FWIW I think you need to tell your mum SS have now got involved. She (and you) needs to realise the consequences of her little dramas.

[MardyArsedMidlander]

I don't understand- where were you when your mother phoned the police? Were you not aware of what she said?

FROM WHAT YOU HAVE SAID- I cannot see why this was scaled so highly on the Barnet scale by police and social services- neither of whom need to be looking for work.
This would only usually happen if you answered yes to a number of the police questions- or if there have been previous police call outs relating to DV.

[cestlavielife]

agree there is lots of farm land around m25!

presumably SS will speak to your mum anyway.

thing is tho - you did - in the heat of the moment - "get up and drive two hours" - so why could/would he not do so ? if you happy to get up and drive two hours over a silly(??) argument then surely he could equally do so ?

( driving a three month old -well they aint gonna notice so it wasnt like taking a toddler out of bed... but still, for you it was the response you took...)

most times people do use a firearm/kill themselves or others etc - well mosstly people say it was a complete surprise and no one would have thought it of them bla bla bla. not doing it before isnt a reason to believe/trust absolutely they never will - - tho sometimes there are signs eg stress / job loss/ depression etc. maybe your mother sees signs that are not there? if so why?

but I guess you need some character witnesses saying you and dh are completely calm, rational people, etcetc and would never do off the cuff things ....

you could also explore more how your mum and dad were - "It's exactly what my mum did when I was a kid and she argued with my Dad" and why you following that pattern? were they volatile arguments?

[OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere]

Glad someone else spotted the Haringey/Farming thing.

There is a city farm on the Liverpool Road but not much call for firearms there (well not on the farm, on the road they might come in).

Yes Haringey and neigbouring boroughs have to be 'on their toes' but they are also totally swamped with serious safeguarding issues.

So a couple having a few cross words is hardly going to make the top of their pile.

It sounds as if your family's propensity for being drama llamas has got you into bother.

If there really isn't anything else to this story.

[Lueji]

If your mum ran to her parents every time she had an argument with your dad (or rather frequently), she was still is, apparently a drama queen.
And you consider that normal, which can be understandable, but I'm glad you are evaluating that response.

Do you know what your OH thinks of that?


I know it's a side issue in this thread, but I'd think a mature couple in a healthy relationship should be able to cope with disagreements without taking off all the time.

If a partner in a couple feels the need to take off to have a good night's sleep, it sounds as it's because the other won't let them sleep because of the argument, and that is a red flag. You need to sort it out before it escalates and becomes the norm.

Sorry, but it all feels like a storm in a tea cup and frankly childish behaviour or that something is amiss.

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

I had stupid 'hypothetical questions' fired at me too... maybe to 'test' your reactions to put your baby first? only thing i can think of as they weren't very reasonable or likely hypotheses (though in my case my h had hit me so at least there was a warning thing that i understood).

I just tried to answer as if they were reasonable hypotheses, and to show that i would genuinely be horrified and the appropriate action if these were likely/ did happen. i just kept repeating again and again that i was taking action to ensure h wasn't in a position to ever hit me again, and as i was taking this action, the scenarios were unlikely to happen.

They asked the whole gamut of questions to the sensible 'what are you going to do to stop h shouting in front of the baby, if he attempted to that is', to the slightly more horrifying 'what would you do if h tried to kill you whilst you were holding the baby (err, stop it happening somehow & safeguarding self & baby?) or missed you and hit the baby (as above, couldn't give the real answer cos worried they'd think i condoned violence, which i don't).

OR what if you woke up in the middle of the night to find him looming over you with a knife (err, well, equally with any knife wielding maniac... i'd, well, what would you do? where did the night attacking and weapons come from?)!!! and when i explained i couldn't change the locks yet, but did deadbolt the door when on my own, i was asked what would happen if my H came in in the dead of night (how i don't know, maybe break through the door as it would be dead bolted?) and went past me into the bedroom and hurt my ds

Mind boggles as to what the point was of asking the later questions, or what i was supposed to answer, especially as it was about him having hit me (when ds wasn't in the house)... not that he had 'form' for breaking down very sturdy thick doors and running around trying to hurt my son - he's a unpleasant man but the questioning felt like some cruel ethics test...

remember this was an initial assessment too - i felt so shaken up after and they asked everything and watched me cry and collapse WHILST my baby was there. no idea what they wanted out of that line of questioning... shock, horror and trying to take their questions seriously i guess. felt like she was actively trying to make me break down, though how that helped them decide whether DS was at risk i don't know

[HeiferInCalf]

Thanks, I do really appreciate the feedback. Tomorrow they are coming to the house to talk to me and DH and from what I understand that will complete their initial assessment.
I'll let you know how it all unfolds.
Thank you ladies

[QuintessentialShadows]

What action are you going to take against your mum?

Ultimately, she dropped you into this mess? What are you telling her?
What does she feel about all this? Has she been interviewed and explained herself?

[QuintessentialShadows]

Oh, I see you have posted.

No, it is not normal to moan to your parents on such a level. I have always been careful not to moan to my parents about my husband, as I am sure it would backfire if I did. One bad day is nothing but a snapshot of a bad situation, and too many of those give a very skewed image of the real situation.

I learnt this lesson at 19 when I was mouthing off about my boyfriend to my mum. This backfired, and I realized it was better to not involve my mum in any relationship issues as long as I didn't need her help or advice with anything, and I would then seek her opinion in a calm and measured manner.

[OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere]

You will probably find they will want to talk to your GP/HV and anyone else involved with your DC.
This is normal part of an initial assessment.

Taking your OP on face value, I doubt it will go any further. Your mum needs to be made aware of what sort of trouble she has caused with her hysterics.

[QuintessentialShadows]

I agree with Orange that you need to tell your mum what she has caused.

SS will find it odd if you dont, they might think you have something to hide.