the more you love them, the less respect they have for you?

[IKnowItsMyFaultBut]

Has anybody else found this? The more I love a man, the worse he seems to treat me.

It just seems odd that in a world obessessed with physical perfection, some people seem to trump that and it doesn't matter. Yet for others, putting on half a stone or getting spot makes them worthless.

Nn-no. No, it doesn't. I mean, really think about that for a minute? It is the most incredible wibble.

You are assuming the men in relationships with women you don't consider attractive also don't consider them attractive which is just not true. You may find me totally hideous but my partner doesn't.

Crikey, I bet you didn't mean to reveal so much about yourself in your posts, OP - you think you've been describing what's wrong with the men in your life, but it's glaringly obvious that you are choosing men like this because of issues you have with your own self-esteem.

Have you read Women Who Love Too Much? The women you see in devoted relationships (who you comment on because you choose to look at their supposed physical attractiveness) are probably in devoted relationships more because they know how to handle themselves, they know how to attract and hold onto men who are decent and loving. These are the key skills which will 'see you right' in relationships, not what size jeans you wear.

My upbringing wasn't all good (alcoholism, sexual abuse) but I thought I'd moved past all of the that.

May I suggest that you make yourself the centre of your universe and not confer that on the object of your affections?

And everything that Cogito says. As usual.

Sorry, that sounded harsher than I meant it to! What I mean, OP, is that you have unfortunately learned/developed some thoughts and views about men and women that are complete and utter wibble, probably because you've gone out with a lot of twunts who've convinced you that the wibble is true. Happily, you can unlearn the wibble, stop going out with twunts, and have a nice life. Yes, you have a lot of wibble to unpick, a lot of negative thought patterns to break etc, that will be hard. But in a sense it really is that simple.

x-posts.

Ah, I see!

Sorry but you are desperate with poor self-esteem and therefore you are both choosing and being chosen by raging arseholes. Because nice men steer clear of women with too much baggage.

You need to fix yourself (psychologically, nothing to do with what you actually look like) and gain some confidence. Don't date at all for at least a year while you are sorting this out; until you have done the work you will carry on being an arsehole-magnet.

Looks matter of course. But often when you meet someone who is gorgeous and get to know them, they can become less physically attractive because of their personality. And the opposite is also true. You meet someone whom you think is just plain, and after getting to know them, they become more attractive.

I think this is what "loving the person inside" is about. If you come to detest someone, they do not remain good looking.

Your sample size is three men. That's not really indicative of all men. Just those three. We've all dated twats. Sometime breaking up hurt, sometimes it didn't. But you move on and learn what to NOT date. As Cogito suggested, make a list.

Maybe you are putting attractiveness or forcefulness or some other twatish quality above a sense of humor or sincerity. Abusive jerks are out there, they'll find you if you go into a relationship willy-nilly.

Relationships are hard work, but take some time off, find yourself, then go find a partner.

All the crap you learnt when growing up needs to be unpicked and unravelled through counselling. It has stayed with you into adulthood. Work on rebuilding your own self esteem and self worth; as it is you a a magnet for twunts and abusers. You can turn this around but it will take time and you're going to have to put the emotional work in.

What is the longest period of time you have been single?. I would be single now for at least a year to reset your own radar and rebuild and reset your own boundaries.

OP, read Adult Children of Alcoholics... Or have a look at this website: www.adultchildrenofalcoholics.co.uk/

Some of the behaviour you're exhibiting is very typical (I was the same when I was younger).

Yes, you might find me hideous but importantly, I think I'm pretty nice, and so does my husband and I think he is too, unfortunately he didn't think he was and so never had a gf before me. His main problem and I'd say yours too is placing too much emphasis on what is "normal" and what is "attractive" and not building your love from within yourself.

My husband considered (still does a bit I think) himself so hideous that he found himself unable to have a relationship at all and this has given him some fairly big issues. He isn't hideous at all but he is a bit awkward looking and a bit geeky and a bit ginger and short and not some knobby alpha male and so very far away from tall dark and handsome wanky richy rich stereotype of what women are meant to want but the first time I met him I knew he was something special to me and I pursued him (long distance) for 6 months before we got together properly. I've always been attracted to him and I definitely think attraction is about more than looks.

Looks do matter only in an evolutionary sense for humanity to go on. But because these fade thats when the good old pheromones come in.

You need a better foundation to a relationship than basing it mostly on looks.
If he says he is with you for your looks and wants to look like barbie, run for the hills unless of course you enjoy being someone's accessory.

Think about what you want first and go, find it, there are good man out there who will treat you right, not because you are beautiful but because they are not twunts and they care for you and if they wake up one day and find you unattractive, they would break up respectifully, and not seek prostitutes first just for good measure.....

And you are worthy of that. Good luck

It all sounds lovely, however I'm missing something. I'm not sure why but I spend a lot of time in relationships totally confused.

Please listen - stop having relationships until you have improved your self esteem. You're confused because you're making poor choices and you probably also don't really know what you actually want - you're wrapped up in how things "should" be.

What confuses you exactly? Is it that your love, devotion and affection is not reciprocated and you can't work out why?

Looks are part of attraction in a biological sense yes but not "attractive women are blonde and size 6-10" that is an arbitrary fashion. Attraction in the biological sense is about the personal mix of genes not about what "people" should find generally attractive.

That's exactly it, Cognito. Some people change religions, move countries, make huge changes and sacrifices for their partners. I have done so myself - only to be rejected.

You do that kind of thing because it is worth doing it though not so that someone who isn't worth is treats you well.

This going to sound harsh. However, I do wonder at some less conventionally attractive women who have truly devoted partners. How do they do it? It's almost as if men feel safer with them.

Because it doesn't have to be all about visual "attractiveness"
Attractiveness has to involve personality to not be merely superficial. If you think it's all about treating 'em mean vs loving them, then you have too much growing up to do to sustain a long term relationship.

Long term relationships become long term because there is a strong element of partnership. They grow out of mutual love and respect and there is no room for petty one-upmanship or game playing.

There's a trite sounding but true saying that I can't recall the exact wording of about a strong relationship not involving gazing into each other's eyes, but rather of looking ahead together at shared goals.

Op - you've been rejected because you've picked crap men, who didn't really love you. If you valued yourself more, you'd recognise that they didn't really love you. I cannot believe that being rejected when you reached a size 12 was the FIRST sign that you were with a complete and utter arsehole. You would have had plenty of clues along the way, but ignored them.

The trouble with making changes and sacrifices on a unilateral basis is that all you earn is contempt, not respect. Do it too much and you get regarded as 'obedient' rather than 'cooperative' which is a very weak position. A good relationship requires equality. A dominant/submissive relationship.... even if it starts out with the best intentions and is motivated by love... will always end up with the submissive partner being mistreated.

My DH and I have moved countries, learned new languages and changed religion for each other. But it was never about personal sacrifice or doing it for the other person. It was about moving together towards a common goal.

Basically, a relationship needs to be built on mutual respect and admiration. If that gets skewed to either side, things are unlikely to end well.

It's bloody frightening to have someone make you the centre of their Universe and to martyr themselves for you. Only people with fucked up personality issues themself desire that sort of adoration, the healthy ones want to grow mutually, together. The narcissists, abusers and selfish idiots are the ones who want that sort of 'you are my everytihng' type of relationship, who will never thank you for it, but keep sucking all of that out of you till they are bored.

You're picking the wrong people and going at it with the wrong attitude.