Is MIL expecting too much or am I the problem?

[notagreathostess]

Since both losing her elderly father (who required quite a lot of care) and retiring from her part time job a year ago MIL now has a lot of time on her hands. She has decided she wants to spend more of it with us.

We are agreed that it would be nice to spend more time together but have very different circumstances. We have 4 DCs ranging from 14 to 4 months, DH is working 6 days most weeks and and we certainly do NOT have a lot of time spare!

At the moment MIL lives about 50 miles away, although as the road is poor it can take 1hr30 to do the journey each way. She is not a confident driver and refuses to come to us as a day trip. In the past we have always taken the time to drive over there as regularly as possible but with so many demands on our time it is hard to find many opportunities.

To us the obvious solution was for MIL to move closer to us. She no longer has any relatives near where she lives, and although she has plenty of friends they are often busy with their own families which MIL has said makes her sad about what she is missing out on. She is quite an outgoing person and we think she would be able to build up a social network here quite easily whilst also being close enough to us to drop in frequently, and us/the DCs on her. She has said she wants to travel with friends too - which we feel could easily be done from a base near us. MIL does not feel ready to do this and wishes to remain based where she currently is. Of course we understand this, BUT she is still insistent that she should see more of us...

Her preferred solution to this is extended 'holidays' near us. As we don't have room (us and 4 DCs in small 3 bed house) she would be staying in a local B&B and has suggested 2-4 week durations regularly through the year. Whilst she would not be sleeping in the house she would generally expect to be with us during waking hours. DH would be at work 5-6 days of the week (he has already taken several days leave to go on holiday with her this year) so the entertaining would fall to me. MIL isn't really the type to muck in and has zero experience of living in a big family, also I am not really an "open house" type of person - I need my space and privacy. I feel like this is an unfair expectation but am being made to feel, by MIL, that we are being very unwelcoming when we say we don't think it will work well for us.

I'm really not sure at this stage what to do? We're happy to carry on making the effort to go over there as often as realistically possible but that will not be an increase on the time MIL sees us. She is also very welcome to come over when we have a free day to join in on some family time or to meet halfway. When we have a free weekend (even rarer) she could come and stay then. Am I being completely unreasonable about these extended stays?

I'm really trying to see things from both sides. Although there are issues in our relationship (not going into detail here!) I do not want MIL to be lonely and I do want the kids to have the chance for a close relationship with her. DH is in full agreement with me but struggles to deal with the upset when MIL is told her plans do not work for us.

Hope I've posted in the right place - sorry if not. Also please be gentle with me - I am aware that I am not perfect

Lumpettybump, just keep some contact, friendly and polite, don't engage with emotional blackmail, decide between me and my husband what is reasonable and do that, in the full knowledge that it isn't right, enough, that we are making her unhappy and that she probably does wish I'd disappear too (and has said as much to DH).

As Attlila says, don't engage, don't bend over backwards, just stick to your own needs and plans which after all are reasonable and accommodating.

notagreathostess:The sympathy is the hook.
I think you are perhaps nicer than me. Don't let her drain you all dry.
If you find a way to keep being nice and feeling sane then please re-post. I could do with some inspiration.

I have a mantra, got it from The Observer I think. It was a response from an agony aunt to someone dealing with a toxic mil. To be said first to yourself, then to people you love, then when you can feel it working, try saying it (in your head, obviously) to your relative: "May you be held in compassion, may your pain and sorrow cease, may you be at peace."

It kind of works, certainly a lot better than "you effing, effing effer" . Which is what it replaced.

All the best.

mumsyblouse and Attila this is really good advice.
It helps to see this written down by others, as it's what I aim for. But occasionally get sucked in.

Difficult because DH doesn't always see a problem. Even when she told my four year old that she would effectively die at Christmas if she didn't get to see him. (She was abroad with friends) Resulting in strangely withdrawn DS during the day, then weeping himself to sleep at night. When I told DH about DS crying as though someone had died and telling me he was never going to get to see Gran again and she would be so lonely without him, DH thought it was "cute" and a sign that DS really loved his Gran. We had a lovely Christmas.

I think that when she is sitting there trying to make you feel guilty about her wanting to come and stay for a long time, you need to be quite cheerful and brisk about what she is saying whilst you are dismissing it explaining why it's not possible...

So 'ooh yes, isn't it funny, you've got too much spare time and we just don't have enough with all the comings and goings what with 4 dc, I wish we could find some more time in the day and then you could come and stay near here a bit longer, but they haven't invented the 28 hour day yet, if only they had. And you'd just find it very boring if you were here for that long at the moment as dh only has one day off a week and barely gets a chance to eat his dinner before it's time for bed, and I feel like a chauffeur sometimes what with the school runs and delivering to activities/clubs, I'm lucky I get my one morning of swimming a week, I really need that, not just to keep me fit but to keep me sane for the whole week. Then there's baby club with dc4 and [insert as many other activities that block out your time as possible] and that's before having to do the shopping, the cleaning, the laundry, the tidying, supervising homework... And obviously if you were just here for a day or two it would be easy to put real life on hold just for a day or two, but obviously we couldn't do that if you were here for a week or more, the whole household would grind to a halt, it would be a struggle to tell you what we'd spent the day having to do when we met up for supper, we'd have to try to make sure that we managed to meet up for coffee at least every other day! Bet you're glad sometimes that you didn't have four little monkeys to keep your nose to the grindstone 24 hours a day, although I bet dh kept you busy enough...'

and so on, so you've told her you like her idea, shown her how busy your life is and how you can't just stop everything for a long time, but throw in the bone that if she does some and see you for a short visit that you will be able to spend more time with here when she is here. not ideal I know but might help.

and if she says it again, then try saying that you are not ready to jump straight up to long visits from short visits, you need to have a short visit and extremely gradually work up to longer visits before stopping them at a week long.

" When I told DH about DS crying as though someone had died and telling me he was never going to get to see Gran again and she would be so lonely without him, DH thought it was "cute" and a sign that DS really loved his Gran."

He thinks his mother upsetting a 4 year old with nasty, manipulative emotional blackmail is "cute"?!

Oh and just seen the christmas plans too.

I'd deliberately misunderstand what she has been saying and say that you've heard that she is inviting the relatives to stay with her, and say that you think that is a wonderful idea, as she spent christmas with you last year you were planning on seeing your parents this year as it's their turn and maybe she would like to spend new year with you instead (or few days after xmas or easter or whenever is good for you).

In fact I'd go one step further and book xmas with your family now, so that when you talk to her about it, it's a done and dusted deal, so she can't guilt you into not seeing her over that time.

And go heavy on the 'it will be lovely for you to see the expat relatives, bet you'd love a grown up christmas with them and your friends for a change, after all, I know you found it difficult last year here and didn't really enjoy it very much from what you were saying about it [insert her criticisms here] .

And when she reacts negatively to your plans for anything, don't be afraid to mirror her behaviour right back at her when she makes her suggestions so if she says that something doesn't work for her, then say that her suggestion doesn't work for you all in your situation and what are you going to do together to sort out a compromise...

I am going to be blunt. Her extended stay proposal has got to be a big fat NO!

I love my mil. Would I want her all to myself to entertain for two weeks at a time, on a regular basis while my dh was at work? Hell no I would not!!!

Your mil is very self centred and unrealistic to suggest this set up. She would be imposing on you and your family dreadfully if it were to come to fruition. I would absolutely HATE having to accomodate ANYONE that way! I'd be exhausted and sick of the sight of them after a couple of days.

No-one ever gets invited to stay here for any longer than three days because that is my absolute limit. Our house is small, we have three kids, and it's just not feasible without me going mad having to play hostess.

It is up to your dh to tell her it's not going to happen.

Yes athing. It was just one more straw. He did understand, I think. To be honest, he just won't get involved. He loves his mum. She brought him up. (I'm amazed he's sane). And I don't want him to think I hate his mum. (I hate his mum).

It sounds as though the OP is supported by her husband. And that will help.

I love the scripts from zipzap. This is where I fall down. Because she or DH will arrange something and it will take me a full day to come up with something I could have said. The Christmas one did work though. This is what I did. Arranged it with my folks prior to the event. This resulted in the Christmas or Death fiasco.

Which in the end went quite well. My mum suggested we go online and we found a webcam for the resort where they were all giving it yeehaa. He cheered up when he saw what a good time they would all be having. Hopefully it gave him pause for thought (that what Gran says isn't necessarily so). But for goodness sake he was only four.

Imagine how these regular extended stays would impact on your own life OP!

For example - I am SAHM and might get together with other SAHP friends about twice a week - we go for lunch, to the park, out shopping or more often than not, just have coffee at each other's houses while the kids play.

If your mil is staying, what does she propose to do with herself while you have a life? Would she just sit in your house waiting for you to come back, or would she expect to come along to hang out with your friends too?

It would take away the liberty you have to do what you like, when you like with who you like, during these visits...because there she would be...ALL THE TIME...needing looked after and entertained.

Kiss doing your own thing goodbye!

I'm off now. More of a lurker, really.

Good luck notagreathostess

I think there's a lot of sense in what people are saying on this thread. And pictish is right.

You can love your MIL and sympathise with her and still not want/be able to handle her staying for two weeks at a time. And I second getting your dh to have the conversation.

YANNNBU. It just isn't going to work. The best thing would be for her to build up her own network of friends. And honestly 63 is not old in this day and age. I agree with long weekends. Absolutely not extended holidays. I could not cope with that and it would drive me totally mad. I can see why she doesn't want to uproot yet away from all her friends. You sound really caring and I hope you work somelthing out that is acceptable to everyone. Good luck!

Mil needs to be told the world does not revolve around her.

YasoooooNBU. I know someone who actually did encourage their widowed and depressed MIL move up the road.

It didn't work. Nutshell, if she's depressed and life doesn't work in her own place, she won't like it any more in a new one. And the burden will increase tenfold on you. You should tell your DH this - the children won't like it much either, take it from me.

It seems that yr MIL is using you as a rescue rope, not a life plan. Avoid, avoid, avoid - even if you let her have it all her own way, she still won't be happy and you will be royally screwed, possibly for the next 30 years.

How long ago did FIL die? Might explain the depression.

If she's still grieving, try the 'Don't make any decisions now' line and stick to it.

Thanks again - you've all been so helpful and I really appreciate all the posts.

Regarding MIL's background - she is an only child and after her relationship with DH's father broke down she moved back to her parents. I think she IS unaware that the world does not revolve around her because to some extent her parents' always did. When we are unable to fit our lives around her she simply doesn't get it and assumes that it is because we don't care about her. I am from a big family and we all understand that we cannot live in each others' pockets. TBH I'd like to see a bit more of my family but that's another thread altogether!

I wouldn't not have MIL at all for xmas as she really doesn't have anyone else and I'd hate to think of her alone and unhappy. When I said to DH that we'd have to tell her that I may want to go see my family over the holidays so her long stay plan may not work out his response was "well she'll want to come too..." Therein lies the problem-and she really wouldn't see why we might not be happy with that.

Yes, DH is very much with me on all of this. Sadly he has no better idea how to "fix things" than I do.

Certainly if I succeed in creating blissful intergenerational harmony I will post back - please do likewise if any of you encouter a magic solution! Probably won't make it back to this thread otherwise as have an especially busy few days ahead (see- I'm not making it up about being busy!) many thanks again to you all.

The way things will be fixed, is for your mil to accept that she lives 50 miles away, and that's that.

Deary me, can I just repeat that 63 IS NOT OLD.

Also can I say you cannot be responsible for others' happiness.

My poor old mum has recently passed away at 89, but I only considered her really old when she couldn't walk or care for herself or concentrate on things, the last few months. Up until then she could enjoy Bargainhunt/ Morse/reading the DailyMail / visits from (the few remaining) friends. I did feel responsible up to a point for her happiness as she was no longer able to get out and about and meet people herself, and that is a big responsibility which I didn't really want. But there wan't really any other option, she couldn't magic back her health and ability to socialise. But my DCs are grown up and I don't have other demands on my time like you OP.

But really to be pondering making a happy life for a fit 63 year old is daft, let alone feeling guilt etc that you aren't doing enough. Believe me OP you have decades ahead of you when you can laden yourself with worry and guilt about her. Don't start now!

She is 5 years older than me, by the way, and with my DCs left home and now, no oldies, the world is my oyster imv.

I agree Mayisout. My mother is old enough to be MIL's mother and still has her own life despite being quite disabled. I wouldn't start worry about someone who is relatively young and can make their own life-save it all up and do something in 20 years time.

If she has a social circle now, she won't soon if she disappears for 4-6 weeks at a time!

Perhaps you need to accept that she's going to be miserable wherever she is, it's whether you get dragged in or not that matters.

Thing is, the old bird sounds like she's almost wanting to be another child of yours - arriving on yr doorstep to be looked after and entertained.

I've had enough therapy to know that acting the wounded child isn't that uncommon or necessarily a problem, but acting it to your own child really is a cause for alarm bells. Not to mention acting it to the grandchildren.

"The way things will be fixed, is for your mil to accept that she lives 50 miles away, and that's that."

Yup, that's pretty much it.

Lumpetty - you're ace. Don't go back to lurking, Mkay?

Sounds like she wants to be old before her time... it's definitely an attitude.

My dear old gran used to volunteer at her local old folks group once or twice a week when some local ladies used to go and help out do a nice lunch group for them. She volunteered until she was 93 when she left the village to move into a home near her eldest dd and was significantly older than most of those at the group (aka 'the old dears').

But she preferred the conversation with the helpers, rather than the old dears because they tended to sit around being a bit 'woe is me I'm old' even if they had only just retired and were 62.

My mum is now in her late 70s and still whizzes around doing stuff far more than me whereas mil is only 3 years older and looks and acts a couple of generations older - if you saw them together you'd think there was about 20 years difference between them.

Problem is it sounds like your mum has sussed that she can emotionally blackmail you into falling into line with her plans just by being upset and knowing you have problems dealing with this - just think, you have already missed out on boxing day with your family last year because of her. And if she's making rude or thoughtless or hurtful comments then time to drag up the old mumsnet favourite - did you mean that to be as rude/hurtful as it sounded? and challenge her directly on the comments.

good luck!

63 is younger than my parents, and they still work part time (running their own business) and have a full social schedule, always off meeting friends for coffee, going to National Trust places, having weekends away as well as a couple of holidays per year. Plus hobbies! I think it's probably a little harder if you're on your own, but even so, at 63 she could (god willing) hope to live for another 30 or so years, which seems far too young to throw in the towel.

When my gran died aged 93 she still met her friends in town twice a week, went to bingo, was on the committee of her retirement home and only saw my parents (her son) once every couple of weeks for a day trip out somewhere.

It is very hard to feel obligated to someone, especially when they sound as if they don't appreciate it anyway.

My in laws are NOWHERE near this bad but do say some very unexpectedly hurtful things to my DH now and then, and are very much on the moany scale (referring to the birth of DC 2 due in december as "the biggest trauma your DS will go through" as an example)

My DH, like yours though, is on the same page as me and can only deal with them in short doses, and I find myself having to be relentlessly Pollyanna to counteract the Eyeore nature of especially my FIL.

This isn't helpful, but it feels good to get it down.....

What Attila said - if she was unaware of causing offence, and cared two hoots what you thought, she would be mortified not angry to be told so, and she'd try to avoid doing it again. Reading the thread, it sounds like Lumpettybump has trodden a similar path & would handle things differently if she had her time again - wise counsel from her re yardstick for how much you offer being how much you can comfortably manage, not how much she wants, because the latter is an unfillable chasm.

She = MIL in last sentence

It is outrageous of your MIL to expect you to keep her company and entertain her! Just say no!