Is MIL expecting too much or am I the problem?

[notagreathostess]

Since both losing her elderly father (who required quite a lot of care) and retiring from her part time job a year ago MIL now has a lot of time on her hands. She has decided she wants to spend more of it with us.

We are agreed that it would be nice to spend more time together but have very different circumstances. We have 4 DCs ranging from 14 to 4 months, DH is working 6 days most weeks and and we certainly do NOT have a lot of time spare!

At the moment MIL lives about 50 miles away, although as the road is poor it can take 1hr30 to do the journey each way. She is not a confident driver and refuses to come to us as a day trip. In the past we have always taken the time to drive over there as regularly as possible but with so many demands on our time it is hard to find many opportunities.

To us the obvious solution was for MIL to move closer to us. She no longer has any relatives near where she lives, and although she has plenty of friends they are often busy with their own families which MIL has said makes her sad about what she is missing out on. She is quite an outgoing person and we think she would be able to build up a social network here quite easily whilst also being close enough to us to drop in frequently, and us/the DCs on her. She has said she wants to travel with friends too - which we feel could easily be done from a base near us. MIL does not feel ready to do this and wishes to remain based where she currently is. Of course we understand this, BUT she is still insistent that she should see more of us...

Her preferred solution to this is extended 'holidays' near us. As we don't have room (us and 4 DCs in small 3 bed house) she would be staying in a local B&B and has suggested 2-4 week durations regularly through the year. Whilst she would not be sleeping in the house she would generally expect to be with us during waking hours. DH would be at work 5-6 days of the week (he has already taken several days leave to go on holiday with her this year) so the entertaining would fall to me. MIL isn't really the type to muck in and has zero experience of living in a big family, also I am not really an "open house" type of person - I need my space and privacy. I feel like this is an unfair expectation but am being made to feel, by MIL, that we are being very unwelcoming when we say we don't think it will work well for us.

I'm really not sure at this stage what to do? We're happy to carry on making the effort to go over there as often as realistically possible but that will not be an increase on the time MIL sees us. She is also very welcome to come over when we have a free day to join in on some family time or to meet halfway. When we have a free weekend (even rarer) she could come and stay then. Am I being completely unreasonable about these extended stays?

I'm really trying to see things from both sides. Although there are issues in our relationship (not going into detail here!) I do not want MIL to be lonely and I do want the kids to have the chance for a close relationship with her. DH is in full agreement with me but struggles to deal with the upset when MIL is told her plans do not work for us.

Hope I've posted in the right place - sorry if not. Also please be gentle with me - I am aware that I am not perfect

She's being ridiculous. I bet she didn't bring up her family and entertain an older relative at the same time. She isn't old, at 63 she could still be working full time. My parents are in their 70s and still travel, hike up mountains and visit me a couple of times a year when they can fit me in their schedule! I think she needs to make a life for herself, not dump herself on your doorstep.

Be really firm from the outset, no nicey nice and just falling in with it, as you will resent every moment. You want an arrangement that suits you, as only then will you be pleased to see her.

Think of an arrangement that you are comfortable with, and tell her that is what works. Period. Ignore tantrums, just tell her you have a busy life, are doing your best to be accommodating, and it is that or nothing.

Actually I think when she is elderly and infirm (which is presumably when she is thinking of moving) the social network question will change.

Established networks start to break down as people get sick and start to die. Building a new network near you won't change that fact.

If she times the move right, she could choose sheltered accommodation that would offer a built-in social scene.

A 63 year old who has lots of friends, an active social life and who likes to travel is way too young to be giving that up to prepare for her dotage.

Gosh, 63 is young.
Your youngest could be finished uni and out in the big bad world by the time she really needs support from you!

"The idea that she should uproot her life so you can more easily slot her into your lives is madness."

I can see this point and would not suggest it if she were happy or at least accepting of the amount of time we can give her. The problem is that she is so clearly not. I don't mean to place no importance on other areas of her life - really. It's been very useful to see that perhaps we have not considered the difficulty of her moving seriously enough (although that has not been intentional - we have always suggested a trial period if she wanted to investigate it and been supportive when she has said she doesn't want to do even that).

Thanks again - will take everything on board

That she is not accepting of the fact that you are too busy to be at her beck and call is her problem.

She will have to accept it.

She is the one whose free time has increased, she will have to fit in with you.

Yep - it's a relief that people think I can say "no" to the plan without being heartless!

Again, there is no expectation from us that she SHOULD move, just that it is an option we would support her with if she is too unhappy with the amount of time we all get together.

Next for a chat with DH and we can come up with some sensible suggestions for time we can all plan to spend together without anyone having unrealistic expectations of anyone else.

Hopefully can keep everyone happy - if not I'll try not to feel to guilty/responsible. Thanks to all

I read this thing the other week that I think you should remember...

'...if you say 'yes' to someone else you might be saying 'no' to yourself.'

I think you need to look at this strategically. Welcome her for the first two week period, but refuse to book anymore until AFTER this one has happened.

When she arrives, stop pussyfooting around.

MIL isn't really the type to muck in and has zero experience of living in a big family
Don?t give her the option. If it?s a meal time, ask her to do specific jobs, ie put the pasta on, boil the kettle, get plates out, get one of the DC ready. Say ?MIL I need you to do X, please? in a very firm voice. None of the ?would you be able to give me a hand? nonsense, too vague.

I am not really an "open house" type of person - I need my space and privacy
Give yourself times on your own. Tell her to come over at 12, or say you will be out for the afternoon. If she gets upset, tell her that the only way these long visits will work is if they don?t totally disrupt your life.

To us the obvious solution was for MIL to move closer to us
You need to make moving there an attractive option. Organise activities or outings when she comes. See if you can find groups that do day trips, maybe the local WI or church? If she makes friends where you are then her 2-3 week visits won?t be so onerous, and she is more likely to want to move and wouldn?t be demanding of your time if she does.

I personally wouldn't like it but IF I were to go ahead with the plan I would make sure that the first 10 day trip fell in the week leading up to Christmas. You can sell it to her with nativity shows, trips to father christmas etc. Once here she can also help with wrapping up stocking fillers - isn''t it lovely, doesn't it remind you of when dh was little. Helping to iron well fold, I don't believe in irons the PE kit, school uniform etc. Collect child A who finishes early on the last day of term while you have to blow balloons for child C's class party. She can feed child A+D while you ferry B+C to discos for brownies and cubs.

You get the idea, then wave her a polite goodbye on Boxing day morning while you go to your family, and spend the rest of the holiday relaxing. She might not be quite so keen when you volunteer her as the Easter bunny for the pta egg hunt!

This is all on your MIL's terms.
If she moves she can see you often and easily. I can absolutely understand though why an older person chooses not to move. Also if you are a SAHP then I can see why she might think that you have more time than working parents - you do, but you also get to choose how to spend it.

So you need a solution that works for all of you, not just one that works for her. Stays of 2 - 4 weeks during which MIL would be with you all day seems like an idea few would be happy with, particularly since she isn't the muck in type. Perhaps stays of 2 or 3 days might work better? If she is around regularly for more than a few hours I would expect her to pitch in with childcare/chores.

Is you MIL a good mother to your dh and a good grandma? If so I would be prepared to make more effort than if I thought she wasn't much good in these roles.I think things are complicated here because you don't work and your dh does. Is there any chance you could work part time and your dh work less? Then he could take on entertaining MIL. There is no way I would entertain my MIL on a regular basis but then dp and I work full time and she has been a pretty crap mother and grandmother imo, so a different situation as I think neither dp nor I owe her a fish...

Have confidence in the decisions that you make.

In your shoes I would ask my DH to be upfront with his mother and say that the plan she says is her preferred option would not work for you both. He'll be out at work and you have lots to do.

The money she'd spend on a B&B over 2-4 weeks wouldn't be any more than say, booking a taxi to ferry her to and from your neck of the woods plus say 3 or 4 nights at the B&B. She could do this every month and give you breathing space between each visit.

Is your DH an only child?

Totally agree with chitchatathome.

Again, thanks for the advice. I think some of the points such as not giving her the choice to not help out, and pointing out what we can and cannot do without feeling (too) guilty can hopefully make a big difference to our situation.

I said in the OP that there were problems in the relationship that I did not want to go into. This is because I wanted a clear view of this particular problem in isolation which is so hard to do when you?re in the thick of it.

The fact is that MIL is not generally an easy person. She is terribly negative and does not relate to others/emapthise easily. This manifests itself in hurtful comments to myself, DH and the DCs at times and as a result of her attitude the older DCs find events like Christmas in her company a little difficult. This makes DH and I very sad, particularly as I think MIL is unaware of how her comments/demeanour affect others. Yes DH is an only child and so we both feel very responsible for her happiness.

I think it has come over in these posts that we have tried to push MIL to move to us ? I haven?t explained myself clearly enough. Whilst MIL does have the social circle which she is unwilling to leave she makes it very clear that she is unhappy with her life. The point about moving over is more that after years of telling us she is tied because of her DF, she wants to be with us more, and it breaks her heart to see the close relationship her friends have with their DGCs we expected that to be what SHE wanted and we made it very clear that if she did we would welcome her and try to help her settle. I do still feel it is ultimately the only way for her to see as much of us as she would like, but have fully taken comments on board from her that the other sacrifices would likely be too much. I really do want to consider the other aspects to her life.

We have offered lots of alternatives to try and give her the increased contact she wants in a way that works for us. For example DC2 had a school event before the summer holidays which we thought she?d enjoy. I invited her to it and said we would make a day of it and go out to a country park afterwards. Given her reluctance to drive we suggested she get the train and that we would pick her up from and drop her back to the station. It?s an easy train journey with one change. MIL immediately announced that she would stay for the full weekend despite the fact that we had already told her we had plans for the rest of the time which we could not change. Also DC4 was very small then (about 5w I think). We refused and said she was welcome for the day but we would have to delay a weekend stay for a better time. She is still complaining about being made unwelcome that weekend rather than being happy to have had a nice day out with us all without any driving hassle etc. (BTW we have seen plenty of her since then including a holiday together ? it?s not as though that?s all the contact we had)

Another poster asked about me working ? in fact I am on ML from a part time job since DC4 was born in April. Whether I will go back or not is, as yet, undecided. It probably won?t make a big difference either way after childcare is taken into consideration. Whilst it?s not ideal that DH is working so hard at the moment it?s something he?s quite willing to do for us all at the moment.

Sorry ? I really didn?t want to turn this into a thread just complaining about MIL. As I have said I truly want her to be happy but I need to be aware of the needs of the rest of us too. Including myself however selfish that may sound. I read so many threads on MN about DIL/MIL problems and realise that only one side is ever presented. As I say, I know I am not perfect, I have DSs myself and really want to make things work out happily for us all. I certainly don?t want to be unaware of MILs feelings/needs.

Oh, and if my family suggested these long stays my feelings would be the same!! Fortunately my DF (who is also alone) is a lot happier with his own company.

"Yes DH is an only child and so we both feel very responsible for her happiness".

Now why is that?. Why do you both feel that way (in your H's case is he in FOG re his mother i.e fear, obligation, guilt).

I read also that (unsurprisingly) she is negative and has spoken unkindly about you all in the past. The boundaries that you have re this woman are going to have to be raised a lot higher than they are now.

I think the only solution acceptable to her will be her suggestions/demands alone. Its all about her you see, she wants you all to accommodate her no matter what cost it is to you.

Totally agree with Attila. Am in similar situation. Lone MIL. DH and myself feeling FOG. Initially thought I could include MIL in our lives and give the kids happy memories of their grandma only to discover that, it was never going to be enough. And ideally I would have to die (quietly) and then she could sit around wearing my clothes, sleep in my bed and talk in hushed tones to the kids about their "poor mother".

It is all about her, just as you say Attila. She says she loves the kids but I find she just wants them to love her at any cost (to themselves).

Am now trying to very painfully extricate ourselves from her iron grip.

I feel very guilty, which makes me angry and sad (because she IS awful, in a perfectly legal Abigail's Party kind of way).

Notagreathostess: You sound like a very thoughtful daughter-in-law. Not crazed, like me.

I wish I had been much more cautious and much less nice and a lot more honest with myself about what I am like. (Can't stand being managed, can't stand bigots, can't stand the campaign of emotional blackmail and humiliation of my kids, my husband and myself). It would have been easier and happier in the long run.

I have gone from trying to include her to trying to keep away from her as much as possible.

I don't have advice for you really because I'm not sure if what I'm doing will work. But before you get too involved, as we are:

Get on with your own lives and be happy. (not easy with the guilt and all).
But you can't make this one happy and neither you or your husband are responsible for that. She sounds just like my own initially charming succubus.

When I was growing up my family were all at the mercy of a depressed, unhappy lady. My mother felt so much guilt about this woman but in the end it would have been better for all of us if we had cut her loose. And that is a terrible thing to say. But she destroyed her daughter and her daughter's family and she was moving on to ours next. My mum would let her stay, but only for short spells. And even that was too much.

Only you know what your MIL is really like. I feel I am projecting. But if she is anything like these two women I wouldn't let her have access to your kids for extended periods of time. And three days at Christmas! Jiminy Cricket! One is fine.

Incidentally my mum and my other grandmas were so wonderful and lovely. That is why I made a big effort to include my MIL. I wanted my kids to have the same relationships I had with them, growing up.

I think this information about her personality and disposition is relevant, because it becomes clear that 2-4 week visits are going to be an endurance for all of you, children included. It's not just about you having your personal space, the entire family doesn't sound like it will be enhanced by her presence and for this reason, you need to limit the visits to what suits you, to save your children and yourself and possibly your husband really starting to dislike her!

I also have a MIL who is very moany and with poor boundaries, and what I've found is that nothing pleases her. So, as you say, if you offer her a day event, she wants a weekend, if I send photos, she wants more/different/Skype, it's all about her and how neglected she is, she is also very depressing about her life which makes all conversations very difficult.

This has all impacted on the children and despite my best efforts to go/send photos/see them regularly, they are not very bonded with her and don't really enjoy her company, but what can you do?

I have come to the conclusion that a) some people are not programmed to be happy, this is very sad for them, but you don't have to bring yourself into their circle of misery and b) it's better to be happy as a close family unit than continually sacrifice yourself for someone who won't appreciate it anyway.

I would decide what suits you (say 3 x a year), inform her of it, and shut yourself off from the moaning/groaning/woe is me stuff. You won't please her even if she stays more, so why bother?

Lumpttybump thanks for your post, it sounds very similar to my situation, especially being initially welcoming and inclusive, and gradually realising over time that if we didn't protect ourselves a bit, it really could be unpleasant for the children who didn't have the lovely grandparent relationship I enjoyed with my grandparents. I also have lots of nice relatives, so was non-plussed to discover a very destructive person, I was still responding to them as if they were nice and reasonable, and it hasn't worked at all!

mumsyblouse: That's it exactly: Having to protect ourselves.
It is so alien and wrong when I think of my own grandparents. And she did seem so straight-forward and well-meaning when I first met her.

And agree and relate to the points in your longer post. Particularly re: Some people are not programmed to be happy.

I guess mostly I feel responsible for her happiness as she's DH's DM. I love him and he loves her so I want the dynamic to be as harmonious as possible. When something is said to upset any of us we try to avoid conflict. We both feel she's really unaware of the offense that she causes. I can see that not raising it is not doing her any favours in the long run but am not sure DH knows how to go about gently pointing things out without setting off world war 3.

She is also my DCs' only GM. I do not doubt that she loves us all (well certainly DH and the DCs) but she is unused to thinking about the needs of a large family having only herself to please generally. This, inevitably, affects us in our dealings with her.

I've said in the past that this particular problem of the visits is due to her circumstances changing and her not realising that ours have not. In fact that's not really true. Since her DF died increasing her freetime our DC4 has been born making us even busier(!) and making traveling around catering to MIL's needs even harder for us. I guess I'd like to feel a little more supported by her. Not in time, childcare, financially etc but really jut in understanding that at this point in our lives we are very very busy and not expecting more from us than we can give.

I will have a good chat to DH in the next few days and I think we will try to plan a short break (weekend) for MIL to come to us soon. We'll plan some nice things to do with her to try and make her feel welcome but will also expect her to make herself an easy guest.

As I say, I am sure I'm not perfect and realise it must be hard for MIL to feel distanced from family. That said there are limits....

Thanks again all!

mumsyblouse: How are you dealing with the situation?

Personally I would never, never, never in a million years agree to something like this. 4 - 6 weeks at a time!!! I think it is reasonable for her to visit at the weekends, mainly only when your husband is around. And not every weekend. You sound totally reasonable OP. You are not being "completely unreasonable about these extended stays".

Missed a load of posts there. Gosh, some of what you say really sounds very familiar LB! I particularly relate to the point about feeling like she'd be happiest if you were erased. I do sympathise with my MIL though as it must be so hard to go from a close relationship raising DH to now being alone. I think I've really been hoping that if we put enough effort in we can make her happy and our happiness in the relationship will follow.

Problem is we keep finding that what we are offering/suggesting is not enough. I'm going to stick with the plan outlined above see how it goes for now. Will try to guage how long from that we should have her over for at Christmas. (Incidentally last night DC1 told me that GM has suggested inviting some expat distant relatives to us for Christmas too ) Wish me luck!!

"We both feel she's really unaware of the offense that she causes"

Unaware - or more likely actually unable to apologise for any offence she has caused or even accept any responsibility for her actions (hence the potential for major upset on her part to get her own way. This is also why you are worried about saying anything to her because she will throw a wobbly as a result. Saying nothing lets her get away with it and makes her behaviour worse). Its her way or no way when it comes to you people.

She may well make up some excuse about not attending any forthcoming weekend away. If this happens, say fine and make your own plans instead. Do not overtly accommodate yourself to such a person.

She is also not making her own self at all responsible for your happiness is she?. She fully knows you have four children and she is not playing ball - nor wants to.

BTW you did not make her this way, her own birth family did that emotional damage. Was going to ask what if anything you know about her own upbringing.

You have likely come from a family where such familial dysfunction is thankfully unknown thus making it even more difficult to deal with. I would say that "normal" rules of dealing with familial relations do not apply when dealing with dysfunctional relatives. You do what you as a family are happy with, if she is not happy with what you have suggested (and to my mind you have been reasonable, infact more than reasonable, in trying to accommodate her) then that is too bad. Nothing will please this woman, whatever you do will not be good enough.

I think I've really been hoping that if we put enough effort in we can make her happy and our happiness in the relationship will follow.

No it does not work like that, particualrly with dysfunctional relatives.

"Will try to guage how long from that we should have her over for at Christmas. (Incidentally last night DC1 told me that GM has suggested inviting some expat distant relatives to us for Christmas too )"

Now why has she told DS1 rather than you or your H directly?.

I would not have her at all for Christmas if this is how she is behaving. Its all very underhand. BTW do not have any distant relatives over for Christmas either. Just say no and mean no. You'll end up catering to these people as well, you will have more than enough to do as it is with your own family unit.

You need to work on your own boundaries re MIL as to what is and is not acceptable from her and raise them a lot higher than they are now.