Is this normal ?

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

For him to tell me he's going to smother me ..
I do know it's not normal in a way but do people put up with it because it's 'their' normal and that's just how my life is?
Some people wil have non of this going on for them so to them it's a big NO that's wrong, others maybe it happens , there told he's going to kill them?
I have no idea if I'm making any sense ?

[weegiemum]

Eek sorr I posted on this last night and again this morning thinking it was a different thread!

Advice is the same though!

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

What do you mean they are so far involved they join in? I don't understand that ?

I'm desperate to get the right help and I feel bad saying it because Iv had alot of help just nothings been enough, and I know u need to fight to I carnt be handed on a plate I'm not asking for that.I carnt put into words what I know I need to help me out of this.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

The fact is, at some point you need to grow a back bone and fight for your kids. No one can do it for you. People can support you but thats it. You sound like you just want it all done for you while you watch. Thats just not how it works.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

I agree with what you say that they feel safer yes.

[AlistairSim]

What do you think would help you?

What could somebody do for you/say to you that would help?

[handbagCrab]

You said the dc take his side. So at some point they are joining in with the abusive situation. Because they don't know any better. Because they think that's how to treat you because that's how dad treats you. Because they are trying to keep dad onside so he doesn't start on them. Because they are trying to keep the peace because they hate all the violence.

I don't know, I'm not there but I can tell from what you are saying that your children are involved and directly effected by your dysfunctional relationship with this man. What are you going to do to protect them? Don't use the fact they take his side over yours as an excuse as to why you can't or that they don't need you to.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

wannabe thankyou for your post, what makes you think I want it all done for me while I watch ?

Have you ever been in My situation, I ask because I find people who havnt find it hard to understand and just don't get it, most police officers don't get it, sw's don't either for that matter.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Yes. I have.

SS were involved and ultimately I had to chose. Him or my DD. He was abusive. He threarened me with knives.

He phoned a helpline and gave them my name and address and told them I had murdered my daughter. I had police at my door at 3am.

After that I never spoke to him again. He continued to threaten me. Make up shit. I think he was stalking me aswell.

I changed my number. I moved. I stopped lying to SS. Stopped seeing them as the enemy.

I chose my daughter.

[Offred]

Yes I have too. I have two children who were the result of sexual abuse. Although I don't feel that way I can imagine that if you did find it hard to bond with them as a result of that, if you felt they were a part of the lack of control you feel you have over your own life, you would find it hard to prioritise them above your fixation with your abuser BUT the path that leads to is you losing custody of the children, either to him where they will get abused or to the court where they will be split up and put into foster care/adopted and you, if you are still alive will go back to him and probably have more children who probably will be taken at birth. You absolutely have to pull your head out of your arse.

The services have tried to help you, they can't make you care more about the dc than him.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

alisairslim I do well in past with alot of emotional support, ( izzy knows this best I did well and worked closely with my hv but she couldn't keep up that level of support understably, but for me it worked she was there daily or called if she didn't visit, she called police when I had marks, she called a MAM meeting just for supporting me.
My shine worker was great too that helped but she carnt support me anylonger.
I do well on intense high support and I know I carnt have that, left alone and I go backwards.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

So you know Wannabe where I'm at and what's it's like?
You talk as though you Havnt had the misfortune of being in my situation.
When did you find the strength to leave ? When did you find your backbone?

Because of my mistakes, I darnt trust my help, like I got no response from the dv officer, it's more scary because I have no faith I'm gona get help, I don't blam people, I guess izzys quote about me being responsible for their bold spots are correct, Iv seen there frustration.

I don't know what to do, got this scary numb feeling again.

[Offred]

But waiting what you describe is not "high intensity support" it is evidence that you would all be better off away from this man but that you want other people to take full responsibility for changing the situation. What you describe is not support, it is them doing it for you because in order to achieve progress they had to do all the practical things and when they stopped you carried on back in your old pattern. Your biggest barrier is that nothing that has happened to you or the dcs has been your absolute bottom and you are now in a very dangerous position of thinking the services and your abuser have total control over and responsibility for your life. They don't. You cannot expect what you describe as "high intensity support" especially when what it involves is progress being made only as long as other people are in control because it isn't worth their effort to do that, they cannot do it all for you forever, you have to do it yourself and if you don't then it won't change no matter how much "support" they give you you will fall back in to the old pattern because you have decided that you can't change and you are not in control. The only thing that can save you and your dc is realising you are in control and the decisions you are making are what is affecting your life.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

handbagcrab I think you hit the nail on the head about the dc with him, they are scared to go against what he tells them I think, they are his puppets.

I have little idea of how to start unraveling this mess, so far I havnt done a good job.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

I know exactly what you are going through. My switch clicked when I realised he was going to cause my daughter to get taken away. It wasnt the first abusive relationship I had been in. But it was the worst.

I may sound harsh to you. I may sound like I couldnt possibly understand. But maybe you just need to hear it like it is. All the help you have had hasnt worked. What will make you change it for yourself and your kids?

He is threatening to KILL you. He is CAPABLE. Yet every day you chose him over your babies. What will be enough for you to make it stop?

[Offred]

I think you need some really strong psychological support, perhaps to change these really dangerous thinking patterns about your life being out of control and there being nothing you can do about it. I think until you change that belief your future will be bleak as will your children's.

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

I feel like I see no way out,
I feel desperate I feel hopeless

I am dealing with not drinking too and that's a challenge on it's own but one I'm winning.

[Offred]

That's one small hurdle which an achievement in should help you feel more in control, it may not do if you feel so hopeless though. I really think what you need maybe is some kind of intensive therapy to change those feelings of hopelessness.

[garlicnutty]

I'm really glad you're in the Freedom Programme, Waiting. Keep going until you truly feel it, even if you have to go back again and again.

You're a better mother than my mother, and than my sisters, because you realise it needs to end. That's the okay part of you talking; it's stronger than you think! All the support is working, you see?

The part of your mind that speaks with his voice says "You've wasted all that support, told them lies, they won't come back, nobody can help you, yadda yadda, you are lost." But you're not lost and your support is working. You're on the Freedom Programme. We're still here.

In my experience most decent people can't understand (or can't face, more likely) how an efficient abuser takes over their target's mind. Even psychologists have trouble with it, though I found it helps to mention Stockholm Syndrome. Womens Aid do understand it. Keep going to the Freedom Programme. You're already stronger than he thinks, in the sense that your okay part is gaining strength.

Try to protect your okay part - don't get into arguments with him (for real or in your head) about why what he does is wrong. It is wrong, he knows it is; that's that. Just keep nourishing your okay self.

I think you'd do well in a refuge. It'll be good for you and your DC to be in a safe place, with other women and children who've been through the same sort of things. Have you talked to Womens Aid and Refuge about it?

[Waitingforthestormtopass]

Thank you garlicnutty for your encouragement to continue,

I want to go into a refuge Iv not tried everyday like you have to just on bad days with no success.
I'm scared to go in one, I'd need one miles away,
Iv just furnished a house etc.

Yes I think people find it hard to get their brain around the idea of someone taking over your brain, it's a scary thought.
I have a friend who's a sw she talks like she gets it, but I know she don't she's talking what she's been tourt.

[Offred]

See I'm not entirely sure it is that. I understand the Stockholm syndrome of abuse from parents and a partner.

What concerns me is that the problems run deeper than that with you in that the control from the abuse has actually stripped away any ability to be in control or take control over aspects of your children's and your life that are absolutely vital and that you seem to be socialised into depending on all other people outside yourself to take control over you. Your abuser controlling your current life but you think you can only break free if the services take control of that process. Part of staying in the abuse is telling yourself that people don't understand when sometimes it will be that people understand but have limited capacity or that they understand but don't think it will help in the long run to take control of your breaking free process.

I do agree that going into a refuge far away and starting again would be a very good step but I still maintain it is really important that you get very intensive therapy to help you regain control psychologically otherwise you will end up calling him and asking him to come to where you are again.

[garlicnutty]

Offred, Stockholm Syndrome extends to "battered woman syndrome" which, I believe, is out of favour as a term. Your second paragraph is a decent summary of the problem I think. OP has got enough independent thought to provide the seeds of freedom; Womens Aid are the best 'fertiliser' I know about atm, so I'm really really chuffed Waiting is ready to keep going to them.

To be honest, I still haven't got Dad and X2 out of my head. Therapy's provided the tools to understand what's going on and how to proceed but it's tough going. The ideal long-term support is only available to those who can afford it ... crisis intervention in the UK, though, can be brilliant and set you on a safer road. The NHS will supply six months of high quality therapy, which is easier to access with WA's help. after that, there's still Womens Aid and Mumsnet. This board has been a tremendous help to me and to other women I know.

Waiting, it will all become so much clearer when you are actually away from him. I'm rooting for you to ask for a refuge place, and keep asking! xxx

[Offred]

I meant that people "not understanding" was not the problem.

[garlicnutty]

Oh, I see, thanks. Yes, there's great danger in allowing that to descend into a Heathcliffe & Cathy fantasy of "nobody understands a love like this" which is bollocks. It's not love.

I spent a considerable amount of time and effort learning what love really is like for non-abusive couples. I still get a little shock now and again, when I realise I'm looking at the antithesis of one of the lies I was taught and assumed to be normal. Actually, Waiting, this is a worthwhile point - rather than focusing all the time on him and the mechanics of your damaging relationship there, try and feed your okay self with input from healthy, happy families with cheerful, low-drama lives. It really helps!

[izzyizin]

The OP is 'away' from him, garlic. She has been rehoused; she has been given panic buttons, Court orders, and considerably more help and support from a number of agencies than many victims of dv.

While she continues to cover up his abuse and has lied to the extent that he has been able present her as a fantasist which, presumably, is why a Court and/or SS have deemed him suitable to have custody of a dc to whom he poses considerable risk, the OP will gain nothing from being in a refuge and, furthermore, she will pose a risk to the other inhabitants.

[izzyizin]

In an ideal world you'd have a metal helmet placed on your head and a few zaps of memory eradicating rays would ensure he was eliminated from your thoughts - alhough, of course, you'd have to be forcibly strapped down first because you derive enjoyment from your thoughts of him which is why you are so resistant to any attempts by others to help you get him out of your head, let alone your life.

However, if your underlying vulnerability and emotional neediness coupled with the arrogance that led you to ignore the warning signs that were strikingly apparent when you first met him are not addressed, the probabilty is that you would most probably walk straight into the clutches of another controlling and abusive twunt because you have become accustomed to putting your brain on automatic pilot and allowing an abusive male to do your thinking for you.

IMO, if you were to go into a refuge you would place the other inhabitants at risk by virtue of the fact that you would have no hesitation in breaching safety and security rules by telling him your address and/or inviting him to meet with you nearby within hours of your admittance.

In the unlikely event that you were able to restrain yourself from revealing this privileged information one or more of your dc, who have been conditioned with your collusion, to ask 'how high' when he says jump would volunteer it to him.

Needless to say, even if the refuge were situated in Outer Mongolia you would view his apparent omnipotence, which you have done much to engender and continue to facilitate, as further evidence of your not being able to get away from him - therefore, so your reasoning goes, why bother to try?

After all, isn't it so much easier when you don't have to think for yourself and can abdicate responsibiity for the numerous dc you have bought into his sick and twisted world?