My mother hates my husband (long)

[badtoworse]

I don't live in the UK. DH is from the country we live in. Mum came to live here (divorced and then later my father died) some years ago in a house a short drive away. Soon decided it was a big mistake and that she hated it, then to complicate matters then injured her back and became really unable to manage living alone. We sold my house and we moved in with her. All coinciding with me starting a new business venture and DH becoing unemployed. DH has bascially been unemployed (except for a couple of short contracts) since then. When we all moved in together DS was 20 months (now 4.5) and we've since had another child who's 1.5.

Before we all moved in together I was about to go back after mat leave and all set up (at her suggestion) for mum to have DS while I worked and DH at work. DH lost his job three days before I went back but mum said she still wanted to come up in the afternoons cos she wanted to see DS. She (much later) claimed DH had sat on the coputer and let her do it all. He said (we had a big row about it then) he only sat on the computer while DS napped.

My business has been slowly dying a death so I'm going to be WOH from Monday (previously ran busness from home). Yesterday I had meetings all day. DH supposed to be looking after DCs for the afternoon while I'm out.
I told him not to let my mum do too much, to imagine she was not there as it's too much for her. When I came home I asked mum (who I saw first on coming in) how things had been and she pulled a face and said tell you later.
Asked DH if he'd let DS just spend the whole afternoon with my mum and he said, only a bit while DD asleep..she slept for almost 2 hours. Then I ask mum and she says that he'd sat on the laptop and told DS he couldn't play as he'd wake the baby up and she'd felt bad so spent 2 hrs entertaining DS while DH sat on laptop.

I was really pissed off as I'd asked him specifically not to do this and we had a row.

He says she's exaggerating and that he can't believe I'm questioning his parenting abilities/calling him a neglectful parent and talking about him behind his back. He says DS wasn't with her the entire time, he was in and out and he didn't tell him he couldn't play, just that he had to be quiet as the baby was asleep.

She says he's a lazy git and it's the same old shit as all those years ago, she's had enough and would go back to the UK if she had the money. They've been avoiding each other all day and I feel totally caught in the middle.

I'm so angry that he did exactly what I asked him not to but I can't stand this atmosphere, it's like I'm being asked to choose, my husband or my mother.

Yes, susanann...emotional blackmail it is..and she would deny it but all this is not really about DH and his parenting, it's about her sliding into depression again and lashing out. She's been down lately (which I understand...she has health problems that would really get me down) and I felt something was brewing. If I weren't out at work, it'd be something else, something to hang her anger and bitterness and general misery on.
She reckons she's too disabled to fly now. It's probably true, she can't walk very far or sit for very long without pain. I don't think she could live alone. And, the thing is, I wouldn't mind living with her if she were happy and would stiop trying to treat me like a bit of a stupid 14 yr old, it makes me feel like such a...well, like a disappointment, like she said. Ended up in a country she sees as shit, with a failed business behid me, earning a crap wage in a job with crap hours and an out of work DH and apparently we're both shit, shouty parents too.
At the moment I've said I don't want to talk about it and I'm pretending nothing has happened. She's lying down and we're being civil when we need to speak. If there's anymore "I'm leaving" histrionics I'll suggest she sells up and goes back to the Uk.

Can you move in with your husbands family for a while, and try to find somewhere else to live - or send your mother to live with them!!!
Seriously though, she sounds toxic and as if she has conditioned you to put her first. Take a look at the 'daughters of narcissistic mothers' website and you may see some similarities.
She really wants to be the head of the house, and she comes to you because she knows she can control you. It's not fair for her to moan at you about him, if she has an issue she should speak to him about it, but I bet she knows he won't take it.

Nettle's right, this is screaming Narcissism!

Poor you, your poor H, your poor kids.

Tell your Mum to butt out, back your H, cos you know he's doing a good enough job. She's telling tales to score points, its pathetic.

I think you need to move out.

If my MIL was behaving this way and my DH was supporting her, he wouldn't be my DH anymore.

How he parents is none of her fucking business.

Until you are able to rid yourself of the guilt that your mother has carefully nurtured, regarding how she did everything for you growing up, you are never going to get off this roundabout. I do some work with Arthritis Care, and there are many men and women in their sixties, seventies, and even eighties, who undoubtedly suffer tremendous pain daily. They refuse to see themselves as totally incapable though, and with the help of good meds, and aids from the OT dept, they live fairly full, albeit much slower, lives, Granted there are some days when they are haviing flare ups, and will have to rest, but as soon as possible they are off again. Most of these people live alone, value their independence, and wouldn`t have it any other way.

Im afraid your mother needs reminding that you and your family did have a home of your own, which you gave up to help her, and as a result of that, surely you have as much right to be in this house now, as she has. Please dont alienate your husband by making him feel that you are siding with her, because, quite frankly, it does seem like that. How clever she is to never say anything directly to him. No she would far rather give you the bullets to fire, and so far, youve been doing a helluva job. I dont know the answer to your living habits,, but I do know that you should be standing shoulder to shoulder with the father of your children, believing in him, and letting your mother know that you will not have any more of her oh so subtle trouble making. It wont be easy as youve been very well manipulated for many a year, but, if you are to save your family - you, your husband, and children - it has to be done. Good luck.

So you've been living with your mum for a few years now. She can't afford to move back to the UK, rent somewhere and afford to live, and just give her home over to you. Not quite sure why you think she should "move away".

50% unemployment? I'm guessing you're in Spain.

So when are you and your DH going to get your act together and get your own place? Either in Spain or the UK, where your DH could find work. That would solve all your problems. Or you could find work while your DH gazes at the laptop all day "looking after the children" until you come home from work.

If you weren't all living with her, she wouldn't have much "hoovering, mopping, cleaning" to do. As for her being a "drama queen" perhaps she just stressed with you all living with her?

I think you should move out, get your own place - wherever. You'll probably find jobs a lot easier to find in the UK, and perhaps could find supported accommodation in the UK if she sells up.

It seems to me she is utterly fed up, and tied up, living where she doesn't want to be, simply because she doesn't know how you and your family would cope if she did what she wanted.

I am quite sure your mother could find someone to live in and help around the house in return for free bed and board.
You don't have to make a drama out of moving out. Just say you think living with the children is too much for her, given her health problems. If you are in Spain, cheap rentals are very easy to find at the moment. I think you could manage it on your wages alone.
I think your husband has been very patient up til now. What happens when he decides he has had enough?

Your mother sounds like one of those people whose whole life has been a trial. But when you look back at their problems thre are things that they could have done something about. I mean it is possible to leave an alcoholic husband, in fact imo it is the sensible thing to do.
And I think you said she worked. So she wasn't the dedicated and loving sahm she makes out, always putting her DCs first, playing with them and amusing them all day.

But the upshot was that you became the pillar she leant on. And talk of her making friends etc, ie getting herself a life, are unlikely to happen now if they haven't happened in the previous 68 years.

Do you realise OP that as DM becomes more disabled it is you who will have to give up work to look after her? Your future looks grim to me, and you seem frozen in some rabbit in the headlights situation with a wholly dependent and selfish mother who is going nowhere, or at least going nowhere without a blooming big push.

What i would do is approach DB. I'm sure he won't want anything much to do with a heavily dependent elderly mother but try to illicit some help, either financially or to get DM settled back in the UK. At least if she is in the Uk there will be some carers provided as her health deteriorates, I doubt that is the case where you are. Or he might help you all to move back where at least you should get benefit payments to tide you over until you find work. Anyway, I would tell him what a mess you are in and what can he suggest and see what comes up.

She says she can't live alone, I've said this morning We'll all move back to the Uk if that's what she wants and she can sell her and buy a place and we'll have to manage and get benefits til we're on our feet and she just says she'd rather kill herself "how would I get the shopping in, I can't drive, how would I look after myself?"

You and your family appear to be trapped in a situation akin to an abusive marriage. You're so worn down by it all, overwhelmed with guilt, ladelled on thickly by her to maintain the staus quo.

She'll not stop. Not even when she breaks up your marriage, she'll keep on going, breaking YOU down until she dies. By which time, you'll be practically institutionalised, and emotionally crippled.
She has become her H to you, she is your cross to bear in her eyes. Your H is an outsider, capable of blowing her plans out of the water, so she is chipping at him until he goes.

Then she'll start glorifying him, and trashing you.

You HAVE to get yourself and your family OUT, by any means possible. Your DB has to help you in this, but ultimately, you need to do this, with or without him.

Telling her that the lot of you are clearly too much for her is your tack. Don't deviate and tell her that the family decision is made, for her... ;-)

I can't cope..I can't deal with any of it. I believe DH is a good man and a good dad. I can't live with this guilt and feeling like a failure. I don't know any more, don't know which way is up. I was OK, just not engaging but she draws me in every time and I start to doubt myself. Maybe I am an awful daughter? But I try to make sure she does as little as possible; she doesn't clean or shop or cook. She'll empty the dishwasher, but I try to pre empt that/DH does it. She does quite often say she's going to put some washing on and I say "right, but don't hang it out, Dh can do it later/ I'll do it" and she'll then put it out "you were working so hard planning and Dh was food shopping etc, I don't mind" "i like to have something to do" then there's a big upset and suddenly apparently I let her do the laundry.
She says DH leaves her to look after ds but then says he's her only company and she likes playing with him in the afternoons. I feel like she wants DH to do everything her way/read her mind and then she wants me to taker her side against him, but if I try to say anything, like leave him to parent his own way she says it's not good enough and she can't see that she's forcing me to take sides.
She's saying she's going back on her ADs, which she'd been without for a while.
Everything I offer, there's a reason why it won't work and then guilt trips me if i suggest living apart.

Yes - that is because she wants it all her own way.
She will destroy your marriage to suit herself.

Well, she could live in sheltered accommodation. She could easily live another 20 years so imo elderly rellies doing the 'poor old me someone has to look after me' tack is only acceptable when they REALLY can't manage on their own, not when they could manage with a helper popping in every other day.
There are meals on wheels and stuff. Unless she is at the stage where she cannot get to commode or out of bed there are probably ways she can manage living alone (like most elderly widows do). And in accomm for elderly she would be able to meet and socialise with others in a similar position to herself.

I'm not sure how the fact that you aren't resident in the UK will affect things. Normally the local authority would have social services who could advise you. But you can do alot from where you are. Phone/email Help the Aged, SAGA or similar for advice.

I would decide that the best is that she doesn't live with you any more. It doesn't suit her if she was honest, and it certainly doesn't suit you or DH, so that is the aim, and just start moving towards that, it will take a while to organise but start moving towards that. Then all the angst going on between DM and DH can be ignored as it doesn't need fixed because, in the long run, the situation will change.

she'd rather kill herself "how would I get the shopping in, I can't drive, how would I look after myself

This is blackmail. A carer could easily get her shopping. Surely she can wash herself and put some washingoin. Really, don't be coerced into living with her, she is too manipulative.
And I'm sure she would be a happier person with the satisfaction of managing her own little house/flat (although she might still lay on the pity ploy to you OP).

My love, something has to give, she's terrorising you all because she can.

Take your DH to one side, well out of her hearing, and talk to him about making a real plan, working with what you have, to get out of this.

This woman will poison your lives.

God how I wish there were a Children's Aid to offer children of Abusive Parents the same support as victims of partner DV have.

I can't move out here and leave her, she wouldn't manage here, that's why we moved in in the first place, cos she couldn't manage and her health's worse now. I offered this morning for her to sell this house and us all move back to the UK and she said she couldn't buy a place big enough for us all. I said it was her money and she should buy a small place for her and I'd live as near as possible, renting/working/some benefits, whatever. She then went all pathetic and said I was "throwing her out" and she couldn't believe I was so adamant (10 odd years ago) that I would never go back, so she "had to" come here and now I want to go back when it's financially ruinous to do so.
I don't want to go back, I'm trying to solve a problem and I expect in the end we'd be fine financially...(who knows, maybe even better than here as it seems there is more chance of work for DH there and I could translate more easily).
She's lying in bed playing the martyr atm. I've been and asked if she wants any food, but it's all monosyllabic answers.
DH says he's taking DS out for the afternoon on Monday as he's buggered if she's calling him a shit dad twice, so that'll kick things off again, you take my only pleasure from me...

If she returns to the uk there is the option of renting - not buying - a flat in an assisted living block. That's what my parents did when they didn't have enough equity to buy.

Much as you want to support her - she does sound toxic and you have your dcs future to consider. You love your dh and you want to stay where you are, if you return to the UK with her then I can't see it being any better.

Has she got any old friends or family in the UK? Siblings?

It's not worth discussing this stuff with her. I mean she 'had to' come to live there, no, I don't think so, what it should be is 'she can't make friends or a social life on her own so that left her no option but to inflict herself on you who she knew would step in to the role of companion, carer, devoted daughter etc'. Nice one.
Start looking into things and don't waste time discussing it with her.
You will probably have to live with accusations like 'you threw her out' but it sounds like you have given years of your life to support her, enough is enough.

Can't DB help? He might have more time available than you for phone calls etc

I think you need to stop planning around your mother and plan round what's best for your family - DH and DCs. I think if returning to the UK is best for you, then you should do it. tell her you are returning to the UK, and would she like you to help her move too? Then go.

If she "can't drive, can't get the shopping in" you can do on line shopping for her. You can arrange carers. She can look at sheltered accomodation. If you'd never left the UK you would have other options than her moving in with you.

Imagine she'd dropped dead and you didn't inherit anything from her, what would you and your DH do? Go to the UK? Stay and move in with your PIL? Then plan just what's best for you and DH (and DCs) then deal with how you help her as a separate decision, she doesn't get to make the decision about what you do. (and you don't have to live with her, she has other options)

Badtoworse I read this thread when you started it first, and I am sorry to see it has got no better. I am going to try not to say anything that will make you feel worse than you already do. But if you don't actually do something about this, your husband is going to walk away. And as much as I hate to say it, I can see why he would. This is a very unhealthy way to live for everyone - for your marraige, your child, your mother, your mental health, your husbands self esteem. There is a saying "If you don't want to be a doormat, get up off the floor". And I promise I don't want to sound patronising or mean, but I think you know that something has to be done now. I feel so sorry that you are stuck in the middle here and trying to please everyone is a thankless job. You will come out the worst of it.

You need to get out of this situation NOW, do something TODAY. Get in touch with an estate agent. Look up flights back to the UK. Don't leave it on the long finger so that when March comes you will be posting another thread about how bad things are. Even if it means being penniless for a while, get yourself out of this misery. The day you are on your deathbed you won't be thinking - "I regret we had no money for a few months in 2013". You will be regretting the time you spend unhappy or you will be sad it wrecked your marriage or you relationship with your mother.

I hope you are taking this post in the way it is meant, I don't want it to come across as nasty. I don't want to kick you when you are down, I would love to see you coming back in 6 months time with a good news update.

e mailed DB (he's in Ireland and works as a waiter and rents) he laughed heartily at her idea that she never shouted at us kids. His solution was not to engage and wait til it blows over. Easier said than done.
goony I'm not offended by what you say, you're right. Truth be told, I'm a bit scared of her. Scared of her reactions, scared of the guilt trips. I went out briefly today after she'd called me horrible and was a bit worried when I came back in case she'd started packing the house up or done something dramatic.
And I don't really know how to "make" her go back to the UK if she says she'd rather die than live alone. I sound pathetic, I know.
We used to get on really well. She tells me I've destroyed our relationship forever and it's true, it's different now, but it's how she's behaved. I can't forget her giving me a 3 day guilt trip when DD was a few months old and calling me a slattern and saying I was dirty.

Please take some action, and make it very soon. I have been thinking exactly what Goony had the courage to actually say. Your husband will eventually come to the end of his tether, and say......enough. In fact, if you were married to a British man, he probably would have gone long ago. Spanish men do tend to be more understanding of family, but he will reach breaking point. Also, he is in his own country, with family to support him. I suspect that is exactly what your mother would like to see, then you will be totally in her power again. Don`t throw away a good marriage for a mother who is never going to be happy, no matter what her circumstances are.

Oh Badtoworse, I don't have any specific advice to give, but I'm here listening. She sounds awful. You need to get away, somehow.

Can you move in with your PIL temporarily? Or find a flat?
Is there any support for your mother locally? If she needs help with shopping/cleaning etc, could you take her shopping round once a week and do a bit of cleaning for her? It would be better than living with her with the constant nag nag nag.

What support would there be for her in the UK? Start researching and go to her armed with facts. If you don't think she could fly, how would she get home? Is it possible for people to fly lying down? Could she sell her house and go and stay with your brother for a bit?

I don't know where even to start with the whole moving back. I don't know how it'd all work..I mean it took over a year to sell my house when we moved in with her (we moved in and it sat empty til I managed to sell it at a loss). I suppose we'd sell first, if we could get a buyer, and then she'd use the money to buy and we'd need to try to get benefits and rent. Would I even be entitled to benefits if I'd been out of the country for all these years? Is DH entitled to anything as a foreign national? (EU)
I'm surprised she reacted so badly "I'd rather kill myself" to the idea of going back and living separately but nearby, I thought that's what she always wanted, to go back.
But I'm not giving everything up and then living together again and having the same old shit.
Dreading Monday as DH says he's taking DS out when I go to work, because he can't win, if he lets DS spend time with her (playing cards, reading a story or DS playing on the floor with cars while chatting to DM) she'll throw it back in his face and say she's made to do everything, so from now on he'll do everything and that's that. DM will say DH is punishing her.
Sorry, I'm not being very coherent. Been crying on and off a lot. All my attempts have collapsed and it's another 3-4 upset again.

She is extremely destructive. It will be damaging your dc and your dh.

You won't put your own interests first, but can't you see that you are obliged to prioritise your dh and dc?

You need to get out of this trap. Your friends and in laws are there, is there somewhere you can stay for a couple of weeks to give you a chance to get some perspective?

Tell your DB you are at crisis point. Ask him to help if he can.