DH hit DD this morning for no reason

[Chainoffools]

I have name changed because I don't want this issue muddied by another issue I've posted in Relationships about recently.

This morning DD aged 4 got up, got herself a book and climbed into bed with us. She kept bumping the corners of the book into us by accident (we were still dozing but it was time to get up really). I got up, went for a shower, and when I came back to the bedroom DH was telling DD off.

And then he smacked her on her back, no warning. Not hard enough to hurt her but hard enough to show he was angry. I don't do smacking btw, although he has done it a couple of times and I've always pulled him up on it.

I sent her off to get dressed and asked him what that was all about. He said "she's getting on my nerves and I'm tired and irritable."

I told him it was completely unacceptable. He disagreed. Then dd was back in the room and all discussion had to stop.

I've brought the subject back up with him tonight after the dc were asleep. These are some of the things he said:

"You're insulting my family ... because that's how I was brought up."

"We'll have to agree to disagree."

"She was being a pest."

"She'd hurt me with the corner of the book."

"It wasn't a hit."

"I hit her harder when I was playing drums on her back tonight."

Him: "Your parents dragged you through nettles!"
Me: "yes and my dad still feels a shit for that."
Him: "You still love him."

Me: "she has rights as a person..."
Him: (incredulously) "she's 4!"
Me: "she's a person! She has the same rights as me!"
Him: "she's a minor! She doesn't have the same rights!"

"I'm sorry, but she (etc etc blah blah)" then later "what's your point? I've already apologised."

"She's hardly going to be traumatised by that is she."

"Duly noted." (final word, look of 'oh I'll go along with it to shut you up')

Am I overeacting to be thinking of taking my dc and leaving him over this?

Oh dear, just read your other thread. Sounds like you're tried to be very supportive and help him but if it's starting to negatively affect your family, especially your children then, as cestlavie says, he needs to be elsewhere. I can see that would be hard as without your support he might slip right back into drink, but you and your kids have to come first don't they.

I can also see why you wanted to post this thread seperately, to get an objective view just on the hitting, but with threads combined it's not good.

I had a father like this. It leaves its mark. I wish my mother had left him.

I am old fashioned and did believe in the occasional smack but DH didn't. The point is I think in hindsight really if somebody is tired and irritable then the child should be asked to get out of the bed. And one parent to get up with him/her if necessary. No he shouldn't have smacked because he was irritated and should have dealt with it in a different way. But all this hands up in horror and leave is to my mind not how I think of things I'm afraid.

I think there is smacking and smacking.

In an ideal world no-one ever smacks their child, especially when they are very young.

But I think most of us have lashed out on impulse at some point (unless its just me of course), especially if our child is being "impossible" (sometimes they can be, when they're older, and they can develop a bit of atti-tood - though I'm think older than a 4 year old girl, and for more than scraping someone with a book ).

But I think OP, its up to you to differentiate, between a moment of normal human weakness and loss of control, due to say tiredness and stress - and something altogether more unpleasant .... I think its really hard to tell from here ... but I think you will know.

Just seen geegee's post. I agree if a father is generally not loving and cruel and/or nasty then no child should have to put up with that. But that isn't how I interpreted the
OP's post.

I think what he said about why he hit her ie he was tired and irritable are very telling. I think 9 times out of 10 when parents hit their kids, it has more to do with the adult's state of mind than the child's behaviour

'its up to you to differentiate, between a moment of normal human weakness and loss of control, due to say tiredness and stress - and something altogether more unpleasant'

While I think it may have been a moment of human weakness on my H's part, what is really bugging me is that he can't see that it was wrong .

I was just about to point out that I am so glad that my parents didn't separate just because of an occasional smack as a child.

Then I saw the post about the alcohol dependency, which obviously puts an entirely different spin on circumstances.

Op from lurking, I get the impression your dh rarely thinks he's in the wrong.

What positive things right now is he bringing to yours and your children's lives?

Do they make up fir the lack of money, work ethic, drinking, temper and now violence? He needs to start taking some responsibility for his life and behaviour. Perhaps he could do that better if he's on his own for a bit?

Yes I agree with LadyMargolotta - the occasional smacks are one thing but the alchahol dependancy a whole different ball game. I havent read your other thread but I hope things work out for your family.

Thank you for linking your other thread, Chain.

I probably don't need to explain that I grew up in a violent household, where Daddy's mood defined everything in our family, every minute of every day. Clearly your family's not as bad as that. But your husband's mood is defining what happens, isn't it? It's pushing your boundaries a little further every time. I bet you never sat on the school steps, telling your friends you wanted to get married to a man who wouldn't work hard, got drunk too much and smacked your children when he felt grumpy ... :(

Children don't know bad from worse, as it happens. Every child believes its parents are super powerful and always right. I used to get thumped if I 'pestered' Daddy by wanting attention when he was in a bad mood. So that was the right way of things. I grew up hyper-alert to men's moods (and scared of bad ones) and to have intimacy problems. I wouldn't recommend this world-view to your daughter.

Would chucking him out bring him to his senses? Or is his self-importance too ingrained, do you now think?

If your OH is an alcoholic, then nothing will be important to him other than his next fix.

Have a meander through here

• pressed the wrong button.

This will help you feel that you are not alone and will also give you some insight.

Oh . I was hoping that the other thread wasn't you, because I know, from lurking on that one, how hard you have been working to try and get things onto an even keel.

But it's not working is it?

And now your DD is involved, it's clear that he has to go. You have to get him out of your life.

I'm so sorry. But you and your DD do not deserve this kind of treatment.

He's no9t going to pull his weight emotionally while drink's more important than you or DD.Sorry :(

Sorry guys just after i replied i lost t'internet connection

I'm sure someone up there ^^ was criticising my decision to threaten to stab DP in the eyeballs. I assure you that it was motherly anger lol. TTMUH - that was kinda weird you threatening to stab your DH as a means of encouraging him to resist violence. And name-calling the poster who called you on it? Really? If it had been an adult i wouldn't but give me a defenceless child and a knife and see if i back that comment up whether it be DP, my DM, hell my DM advocates beatings and trust me she wouldn't lay a hand on my children because she would know she would regret it...

Anyway i don't have to explain myself to you so thats all you're getting.

I was friends with a girl at school whose stepfather thought that hitting kids was ok. He got annoyed with his son, her little brother, one day over something really silly, toothpaste squeeged everywhere kind of silly, he slapped the little lad, making him fall over, and bang his head on a table.
To this day the little chap isn't right.

There's a difference i admit, between a little tap, and a punch or kick, however i would also like to point out that i know people who 'tap' and their children are the ones who hit when things don't go their way at school.

While i would never tell anyone else how to parent or discipline their own child, and admit freely that in my younger days i used smacking as discipline and angrily defended my use of it many times, having made the 'change' i am so glad and would never ever look back. E-V-E-R. There is simply no excuse for hitting a child. The fear they look at you with when you're angrily charging across the room with flared nostrils is heartwrenching, if you just stop and see what you're doing. When you hold your tiny baby just after its been born, you promise to protect them from harm, not be the reason for their fear.

When a child is reasoned with and has things explained to them, sure its hard on the old vocal chords, and takes a bit more effort than a quick smack, but it improves your relationship, practically ensures the happiness and safety of your child and their children, (because a hitters children are most likely to go on to hit themselves most times out of simply knowing no better ways to discipline)

My 3 year old, with the exception of that one incident, has never been smacked. If anyone else did it while he was in their care, there would be hell on earth to pay. I do not want my boy to experience pain at the hands of those who are supposed to protect him, no child should, in my opinion. I apologised to my older children for smacking them. They remembered, trust me, its damaging, all those 'it never did me any harm' comments don't wash with me.

If it didn't harm you, why do you remember it?

What a sad op. dd1 brings books in to bed with me in the mornings. It's so sweet and will be sad when she grows out of it stuff like this is what makes normal family life such a beautiful thing. If your dh cannot enjoy things like that without getting violently angry something is v wrong
How is your dd?

dd1 brings books in to bed with me in the mornings. It's so sweet and will be sad when she grows out of it stuff like this is what makes normal family life such a beautiful thing.

Exactly. I missed so much through being a misery when my oldest were little but i had those moments and they are beautiful, even more so given that they're both teenagers now .. don't they grow up too fast .. :(

I sure hope she grows up without remembering being hit. But if she does, remember i mean, he better hope that she doesn't get revenge by choosing a shitty retirement home for him

Massive overreaction if this is the only reason to leave.
If there are other reasons also in the mix then of course it's a different matter.
Tapping is not the same as smacking. Although of course only you know which it was, none of us were there.

Oh wait. Some physical abuse is ok but some isn't.

But tapping breaks down the barrier and CAN lead to harder and harder hitting.

I have heard parents say 'my child doesn't listen to me' then you see why as they spend most of their time shouting and squawking at the child, who just zones out of it, then they start hitting because shouting isn't working.

It makes me cross. Evil even. If your child "isnt listening" try saying 'Do you want a cake' verrrrrry quietly. They sure hear that!
Anyway, i digress. Eventually a tap doesn't work or have any effect, and it gets harder and harder. Or a one off, very angry adult hits a child, hard. Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

I left a relationship where i was beaten every day for 9 years as well as emotionally and financially abused. Why after all that time? Because he hit my DD for not being able to say 'toilet' properly. (She had undiagnosed tongue tie so was incapable of saying it)

I feel dreadful that my children not only witnessed this but also had me whacking them when i felt angry.
When DD was 6 and DS was 4, i stopped. I wish i could wind back the clock and just take out the part before that. I would leave everything else the same, if i got that chance just to change one thing, it would be to stop myself from hitting my own babies.

Nothing is worse than that regret. I have been forgiven by my kids, not that i deserved it.

How would any smacking advocates like to be slapped by someone three times their size? Not many!

Do we not all stamp our feet on here when a man hits his DP? Or a woman for that matter. An adult hitting another adult is assault, there are no fuzzy lines. We all say 'leave the bastard'

What do we say about these children getting smacked every single day.. what would we tell them ?

If you take the incident on its own I'd say it is not a relationship-breaker and sounds like an over-reaction. I was not smacked as a child generally and I don't smack my DS generally. However, I have done it once on the back of DS hand, but I recognise that it was more about my distress about other things at the time than his annoying behaviour.
To my mind smacking is more about an issue with the parent than what the child is up to, so is never justifiable as a form of discipline. Having said that, we are all human and make mistakes when we act on emotion rather than sense. As long as this is recognised and worked on to ward off a repeat, there is hope. Sounds like he knew straight away that it was more about him being tired and grumpy and the OP acknowledges that it was not a hard smack, it was not in a vulnerable area either. Some things are forgiveable, this sounds like one of those things.

... the petty, squabbling dissection that the OP gave in great detail since the incident is just as telling about possible communication issues between them and I get the impression that this incident may be one of many grudges that the OP is harbouring against her DH?

I believe its not an isolated incident