to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

I agree with TET - it seems like your BIL is being way too passive in all of this and just expecting everyone else to deal with it?

And I know that the plan that has been set up suggested that people would be helping your sister to do things around the house, mainly tidying, but it sounds like your mum has just stepped in and taken over wholesale, like she would if your sister were physically ill and unable to do anything.
I realise of course that alcoholism is an illness; but your sister has been at least partially functional up until this point - I can't see how removing her need to stay functional will help her much. She needs to stay functional but with a bit more support, surely? In reality, your mum would be better off doing childcare and leaving your sister to do the rest, just helping out with the room clearing, as you said before.

I know it's a mother's instinct to want to fix the situation - have enough problems with my own MIL and BIL to know that :( - but it doesn't help long term.

Your dsis is an alcoholic. It is an illness, it makes her vile. She needs to get to alcoholics anonymous once she is detoxed. You need to get to al anon which is for families etc of alcoholics, they will help you work through your feelings.
Bottom line is if she wants to stop there is a way out and she can be a completely different person. If she isn't there is nothing you or anyon else can do about it except be there or this kids.

She may be better off going to rehab for a while?

My heart goes out to your mum. No doubt she is completely heartbroken and hoping that love will fix it all. Hard to stand by and see your child struggle, and maybe easier to deal with the shock of everything by being incredibly busy too?

Someone needs to stage an intervention with the BIL. There is no way he should be still working. He needs to take at least a long weekend, if not the whole week.

He needs to book himself in for counselling and be honest about his role here. Maybe family therapy with you and your parents? You could vent in a safe place that way.

He also needs to go to long and thorough parenting classes and learn how to parent his children. Whether your Dsis recovers or dies (those are the options) he needs to be a 100% better parent to them than he has been. Either that or he needs to think unselfishly about their future.

He sounds like a worse than useless lump. Again, it doesn't matter what it may have been that set your Dsis off on the road she is on, but he seems to have indulged his vanity to the extent that he turned his back on his children's plight and sought the ego stroking that being successful at work entails for a long time here. Who comes back from the office to a house that is awash in vomit, the bathrooms stinking, and think everything is fine and dandy on the home front? Living in such a state of denial for so long is not great for someone without children, but for an adult to see his own children forced to live in dirt and stench and clutter and to turn his back on them is inexcusable.

Has he told anyone at work what is happening?
What plan does he have to get his sorry arse in gear here for the sake of the children? -- he needs to be asked this.
If his plan doesn't involve profound soul searching on his role in what happened, not with the Dsis in mind but in the context of how he failed his children and figuring out how to become the parent his children need, then I hope your dad and all the rest of you set him straight.

God she is at the end of her tether. You do not become a drinker through happiness and contentment. She is obviously trying to block out something that is very, very wrong in her life. She needs your help, compassion, sympathy NON JUDGEMENT and support. I have been there, I am coming out the other side, it is not easy and you hate yourself but when it is at its worst, you cannot help yourself. Please do not judge her, help her with time, space, housework and decluttering. Might sound daft to you but a tidy home helps a tidy mind.

She will love her children and they will love her and even at her worst she will make sure the children are okay.

The BIL (DH) sounds like a tosser - she has taken too much on and something has broken the camel's back and when you "feel" like you are the only one coping, and when things get "sorted" then that is when you go off the rails.

WRT the BiL; if your sister recovers, I would bet my socks that she will separate from him

He sounds very unengaged and has probably been very unsupportive of your sister in parenting the kids (before the drinking). If he is less than a positive in her life, your sister will need to ditch that negative drain/distraction if she is to continue her sobriety.

He might want to consider that.

I would also bet that he is MASSIVELY co-dependant and petrified. He needs some help, Al-Anon meetings at the very very least

babylon can you persuade your dad to physically take your mum to an Al-Anon meeting?

Maybe he could scoop her up from your dsis house, and then give your dsis a couple of hours by herself

www.al-anonuk.org.uk/meetings/

i think this is something you should be doing as a priority, rather than something to think about for the future....

alcoholism.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=alcoholism&cdn=health&tm=122&f=11&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3Awww.al-anon.alateen.org/

there are loads of podcasts on this site, and literature to order i think, which might give useful insight into your BiL position; and also the danger in your mother becoming an enabler

I do agree with all the posters above about DM enabling-lont term it won't help plus she'll wear herself out.

However it is still early days. Maybe by just physically helping Mum can show her support, help DSis get the house straight (which *Babylon said is a tip) and then gradually withdraw with support of the rest of the family?

babylon hope you slept better last night.

'do agree with all the posters above about DM enabling'

I would imagine the sis will be experiencing some pretty unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.Surely she needs the DM i's help with cooking and cleaning to 'enable' her to detox.

problem is bossy gradually withdrawal takes tremendous effort and resolve; which is why so many people get caught up in enabling/co-dependant

They are going to do this; but for their own sakes, for the kids and for dsis they need to have their eyes wide-open

Its great now, whilst dsis hasn't had a drink. What is going to happen the first time they find dsis drunk in a heap, caked in vomit? will they withdraw all help and support immediately? Or will they clean her up and try a bit harder? What about the second time she falls off the wagon.....?

Indeed catwoo good point, she hasn't got this way overnight, it will be a long job & I think having her Mum around at least initially will be supportive.

and will DM feel 'hurt' and 'let down' after all her efforts, when dsis gets drunk? How will she deal with those emotions? will she blame dsis? will she argue with dsis?

Who knows MrD but if that's the way she feels is helpful then maybe for now that's what DSis needs. She has been hiding this for so long, whatever the outcome (and yes I'm not so naive as to think there won't be relapses) having the support of her family to try & get the house straight for the kids will be a one small step in helping her find her self esteem surey?

As a Mum I couldn't abandon my daughter in that state either, even if tough love is called for. She is doing things WITH her not FOR her.

Babylon Stay strong. The can of worms has been well and truly opened and it's going to get messier before it can get better. Your BIL really worries me and I'm with other posters who have mentioned that his inertia may well be one of the factors involved in your sister's state.

Your Mum needs to look after herself and not overdo it - she'll burn herself out. Your Dad is rightly concerned about her, but I wonder if she's keeping herself really busy to stave off her heartbreak at the situation.

It is very, very early days, so it's possible that after a week or so, a kind of balance will start forming and your sister can start to get her act together. I'm hoping that your sister will start to make some sort of sense of it all in her own head too. I'm with MrDobalina on the separation issue.

Your BIL definitely needs to be taken to task. He cannot allow every other adult member of the family to shoulder this and not step up to the plate himself.

Could she not have done detox in hospital? I think it would have been far less chaotic. Our family member did several detoxes, some at home and some in hospital and only had the one child still at home.

I think it might be a good idea to talk to Social Services Babylon and get some extra help and support in, because it is still very early days.
Your BIL clearly can't cope. I'm amazed he at least didn't take the week off work, unless he can't get time off?

I realise living miles away and having small children there is only so much you can do yourself. What a nightmare situation.

Who knows MrD but if that's the way she feels is helpful then maybe for now that's what DSis needs.

but those questions and her answers to those questions are very very important. She needs to think about that and she needs to research alcoholism

I am not advocating leaving dsis to rot in hell because she doesn't deserve help, because i am a cold heartless bitch. I am saying that what appears to be 'helping' isn't always when it comes to alcoholics; sometimes (often) withdrawing from the alcoholic is the best thing for them

I can see that dm is trying to enable recovery and whilst dsis is not drinking that's all lovely. BUT as soon as dsis starts drinking and dm is cleaning up/shopping/doing the childcare you've slipped into 'enabling' territory.

When this time comes how is a mother going to walk away and leave her daughter to it? Its natural and normal to just want to try a bit harder/ don't tell anyone about the 'slip-up'/get back on track etc....a few 'slip-ups' down the line DM is feeling let-down by her dd/hurt/upset/angry....starts presenting her daughter with these feelings in another attempt to get her to stop...daughter has a drink to blot out her DM and her emotions/ the guilt she feels-blames DM for 'nagging' her and 'driving her to drink'

People end up bang in the middle of ^THIS before they know what is going on. And it is so so so so difficult to walk away from because by this point DM will feel like she IS^ partly to blame

If they are going to support dsis and 'enable her recovery' then they need to have very very clear plans of action for given scenarios IMO and the first one i think should be;

what is going to happen when dsis gets drunk the first time?
what will DM do when dsis gets drunk the first time?

Like I said before, if it was as straight forward as tidying the house and cooking and cleaning/ doing childcare for/with the alcoholic whilst they detoxed, alcoholism wouldn't be the problem it is, would it?

I think mrD those questions are all very relevent and should be considdered by everyone involved on a daily basis. I think where it becomes muddied is for the welfare of the children and that is what the original plan was set up for and I do think the original plan set out by Babylon and the crisis team and the family is workable but it does take the comitment of Dm to not over step those bounderies and enter into enabling territory.

I think earlier on in the thread, I for one was very quick to dismiss your questions about enabling, but after readind some of the literature we have posted on here I think im inclined to be coming round to your way of thinking.

I do think babylon you need to be addressing all of this with your Dm now. have you heared anything from childrens services yet?

enthusiastictroll can I ask you why you were quick to dismiss my concerns about enabling? not in an argumentative way; but because i think it might be useful...

sorry...more to add! (I didn't bow out at all did i?! )

i worry that DM will shoulder responsibility for 'holding the family together'

this plan is set up from babylons POV (and the DPs?) to keep the children in their own home

when dsis drinks/gets drunk it is not DMs responsibility to hold it altogether so that the plan continues and children stay in the home. DM should be sure that her responsibility is then to have children or Dsis removed (if that is the plan...i think i understood that correctly)

Pisces

She will love her children and they will love her and even at her worst she will make sure the children are okay.

I'm sorry but this is a bloody stupid thing to say. Alcoholics can't "make sure" ANYONE is ok. they dont understand, accept or admit the effect of their actions on anyone else. How can children who have been foced to watch their mother lying in a pool of her own vomit be 'okay ' - and this is just what we know about. It appears the children have told the safeguarding team about a whole load of other horrendous scenarios they have been witness to/involved with.

These kids are NOT ok. they are frightened, damaged and neglected emotionally if not physically. They are lucky that they now have a strong, capable, loving Aunt and Grandmother (and extended family) looking out for their interests. But their mother has not made sure they are OK

Please don't make comments about something you clearly don't understand. Or maybe you are making excuses for yourself ?

MrD I was quick to dismiss because I think the original plan the family have come up with was and still is the best way to support Babylons dsis and her children.

I also at the time thought that the crisis team where going to be very active in "protecting the children" I thought it was forming part of the child protection plan and there would be alot of input from services. But that seems not be the case now. So i felt that as much as your concerns where relevent I thought it was detracting from the plan that was in place and I wrongly assumed that it was putting negatives in the way.

I was looking at the plan more in terms of the best thing for the children and I probably underestimated the effects of "alcoholism" I think from reading some of the links and the review i poted myself the nature of alcoholism is very unique and is not always fully understood. I was guilty of looking at in anrrow perspecive of what is best for the children in terms of providing a supportive environment rather than "removing" them or thier mother.

What has altered my view mostly is because of what babylon has posted abouit her Dmum is taking on to much and trying to fix everything. i think what you say about crossing over the relms of enabling is in danger of happening.

I do still think that a supportive environment is essentail, but there are complexities with regards to the motivation from everyone involved and I think you have brought some very relevent concerns that need to be considered all the time, I think it would be easy for babylons family to get swept along and do things for dsis without the proper guidance and support from the relevent services.

"even at her worst she will make sure the children are okay."

Yes, she was doing that while driving them around while she was drunk ,wasn't she . It's pure luck that they haven't all been killed.

I get the impression that your Mum is falling into the enabling trap by being there and helping keeping this sinking ship afloat. It could well cost her health and emotional wellbeing in the longer term; it is vitally important that she speaks to Al-anon and ideally attend their meetings. She has to learn to detach with love.

I am not convinced at all that the intervention that has been staged will be effective in the longer term. Professional people can also play a role in further enabling (see the Merry go around called Alcoholism). Unless your sister is completely serious about wanting to address her alcoholism (along with her dependency on painkillers) this whole sorry state of her drinking and her family picking up the pieces and enabling will continue hence the merry go around analogy. People end up playing roles; the roles of the husband, alcoholic wife and dependent children are already well entrenched.

I am not surprised either that this has gone seemingly unnoticed for so long; alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy. Those children could well be affected by all this in their childhoods for the rest of their lives and it could all spill over into their adult relationships in terms of anger, feeling great responsibility for the other person etc. This is not a short term problem. This is the toxic legacy they have been left by their alcoholic mother and her enabling codependent husband.