to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

"She will love her children and they will love her and even at her worst she will make sure the children are okay".

No because her primary relationship has been and continues to be with alcohol. Everything and everyone else comes a dim and distant second to this.

I am attending an al-anon meeting later today - I am going to do my damnedest to get DM to come too - she needs to.

BIL is still minimising everything

But how can the family step back & "leave her to it" when the whole idea is to help Dsis get the house straight For the children whilst the professionals do the counselling/support/detox of the alcoholic.

In sheer practical terms as said above the physical effects of detoxing I know can be horrendous.
IF Dsis is serious about giving up the booze ( and I know many fall off the wagon but we have to hope she won't even if statistically its very common) and IF everything is in place that can be from the support POV then having a better living environment for them all is going to help I would have thought.

DM may well be upset if her daughter turns on her later or is nasty to her but I'm sure this will be the same wether she intervenes or not & getting a basic standard of decent living for her DGC's is probably more important to her right now.

I do agree thought that all family members (particularly DH who seems to have totally abdicated his responsibilities it seems- possibly a coping mechanism?) need to get family & individual counselling to help get them through this.

I am completely drained

Not helped by DS who had me up 5 times last night
I think he's ready to start weaning, may stave off his hunger a bit!!

Will update more later - I have a very rare opportunity for a nap and I'm grasping it with both hands!!

enjoy that nap

Good for you nap whilst you can, being drained is not good for you or anyone else!

BIL needs a big fat kick in the pants.

Nap was great and much needed thank you!

Al-anon meeting was not what I was expecting
There weren't as many people there as I was expecting there to be (only ever seen them on tv)

I picked up lots of information and leaflets and some good contact numbers too. I will go again, I think they could prove useful.

Dsis has had another ok day today - she has now completed 7 full days of detox. She has been jittery today, but otherwise ok.

BIL has also sought out some information re attending al-anon meetings for himself too. This has to be a positive step, yes??

I'm glad you went babylon how was it different to what you expected? I remember it wasn't at all what I expected, but I'm interested to here your opinion and preconceptions, if you want to share them

I never went to that many meetings in total. This thread has inspired me to go again

Some times you need to go a few times before it helps. And often, i found the usefulness kicked in days/weeks later after I had processed what people had said

did your mum go too?

It is good that BiL is finding out about Al-Anon. He is admitting there is a problem

The meeting was quite informal. I was expecting a circle of chairs where we all faced inwards and said "hi I'm BabylonPI and my Dsis is an alcoholic"
I did say I'd only ever seen these meetings happen on tv

Instead there were tables and chairs dotted about the room, with tea and coffee and biscuits aplenty!

The meeting leader was younger than me, which I wasn't expecting, but she was nice and assertive and definitely not full of jargon.

It was more a sort of Q&A session really, with the group leader answering many of the questions and making suggestions; but also asking the advice of two recovering alcoholics present.

We talked a lot about enabling, and about the things that are really helpful to recovering alcoholics and the things that aren't.

The first thing I picked up on is that I am still allowed to enjoy a drink - it's not a bad thing as my relationship with alcohol is healthy.

It's also not expected that we abstain from drinking alcohol in front of Dsis. I was quite surprised at this, however it was explained that abstinence by everyone else will not stop Dsis if she wants to drink. She also has to accept responsibility for her drinking and she needs to develop the ability to say no to alcohol.

In these early days, it obviously isn't a good idea to take her to the pub and buy her an orange juice, it isn't a good idea to take her to the pub at all.

However, eventually, like a diabetic says no to sugar etc, she WILL be able to sit in a social situation and refrain from drinking alcohol - that will be her choice.

I was there for just over an hour and it went really quickly. I've got to go again as I think there was just so much to take in, and I really want DM to come with me.
She couldn't come today as there was a meeting at dsis' house with some new medical staff who are taking over dsis' care.

I'm glad I went

Oh and I learnt that we shouldn't refer to recovering alcoholics as "being on/off the wagon"

That is definitely not helpful.

Im glad it was positive for you Babylon - and I confess that I thought exactly the same as you lol, that these meetings involve everybody sitting in a circle, lol. TV has a lot to answer for!

Everything sounds good at the moment, it seems that BIL is starting to take note of WTF is going on around him!!! and about time......

I was wondering how Dsis was getting on with detox. How is she in herself? Is this something that she wants to do?

I'm glad you are glad you went

The ones i went to we did sit round in a circle and introduce ourselves and people could say whatever they wanted...so some people shared ALOT and some people 'passed' but would speak another week.

The first week i went i cried continuously, i could only manage my name. I felt such a dickhead. Someone held my hand and fed me tea and biscuits and didn't ask me anything. It was such a relief to let it all out, with people who just knew

I was surprised at the diversity of the people there (i had expected them all to be needy weak people) and the range of ages

I remember being petrified because most of them that were there because they had alcoholic partners...had left their alcoholic partners; and i didn't want to, I wanted to make mine stop drinking

We talked a lot about enabling, and about the things that are really helpful to recovering alcoholics and the things that aren't

what did they say about this?

As child of an alcoholic mother I'm not very sympathetic to your DSis. I do agree you can't help an alcoholic until they admit they have a problem but that doesn't mean the family has to sit and tolerate it until then. I personally wish my dad had been more aggressive because it might have shocked my mum into realising what she was doing to us. My advice is to be there 100% for the children. When one of my mum's friends approached me when I was 16 and told me she felt so bad for me I felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders. Please do everything you can to support the children, practically and emotionally. It will make such a difference to them if you reach out to them.

I still feel that Dsis is being too compliant wrt the detox, but she's done it now.

She's been jittery and jumpy, lacking concentration, headaches, nausea etc, but I suppose it's like one hell of a hangover in a way isn't it?

She hasn't been properly sober in a long time, and she has admitted that she hasn't gone a week with a drink in at least 4 years

She is adamant that she was sober during her pregnancies 4 and 6 years ago, and her DCs 3&4 show no signs of foetal alcohol syndrome.

She has been prescribed some diazepam to help calm her anxieties, but as yet she has not taken any. She is allowed up to 4 pills per day at regular intervals (6 hourly) and they are to be administered by either DM or BIL, she is not allowed to have them. They are being delivered daily currently as they have been advised to keep no medicines/painkillers etc in the house at the moment.

MrD - thanks for restoring my faith in television

seriously though, I think that these meetings are great help for those who attend them

When I was at school, a girl I sat next to for a couple of classes, went to ??Ala-teen"?? or something like that, a group for children of alcoholics. It was the only place that she got support

MrD

It was very general really.

Not helpful to take over and do everything
Not helpful to remove responsibilities and control over simple day to day stuff
Not helpful to remove money/cash/cards etc
Not helpful to constantly supervise/be there all the time
Not helpful to constantly talk and ask why etc

Doing any/all of these things are more likely to allow or enable a drinker to carry on drinking - except with more secrecy.

We talked a lot about being judgmental and feeling ashamed of the drinker too. That was a release for me.

I think that is a good sign with regards to the diazepam though Babylon, that she has not felt the need to take any, I would have thought she has made that as a concious decision.

Babylon I am so glad that the meeting was helpful to you. I keep forgetting that you have a baby yourself and you are stoically doing all this with broken nights etc. Grab those nap opportunities when they come along

pleased you went and it was useful, remember this thread from last week x

babylon i have a friend who was a MH nurse in a detox unit-she said alcohol detox is far worse than heroin detox

so, yeah, i think 'bad hangover' doesn't even come close

have you spoken with your mum/dad today?

its from wiki, but it covers most of it i think;

Alcohol withdrawal

As with similar substances with a sedative-hypnotic mechanism, such as barbiturates and benzodiazepines, withdrawal from alcohol dependence can be fatal if it is not properly managed.[44][50] Alcohol's primary effect is the increase in stimulation of the GABAA receptor, promoting central nervous system depression. With repeated heavy consumption of alcohol, these receptors are desensitized and reduced in number, resulting in tolerance and physical dependence. When alcohol consumption is stopped too abruptly, the person's nervous system suffers from uncontrolled synapse firing. This can result in symptoms that include anxiety, life threatening seizures, delirium tremens, hallucinations, shakes and possible heart failure.[51][52] Other neurotransmitter systems are also involved, especially dopamine, NMDA and glutamate

Severe acute withdrawal symptoms such as delerium tremens and seizures rarely occur after 1 week post cessation of alcohol. The acute withdrawal phase can be defined as lasting between one to three weeks. In the period of 3 ? 6 weeks following cessation increased anxiety, depression as well as sleep disturbance is common;[54] fatigue and tension can persist for up to 5 weeks as part of the post-acute withdrawal syndrome; about a quarter of alcoholics experience anxiety and depression for up to 2 years. These post-acute withdrawal symptoms have also been demonstrated in animal models of alcohol dependence and withdrawal.[55] A kindling effect also occurs in alcoholics whereby each subsequent withdrawal syndrome is more severe than the previous withdrawal episode; this is due to neuroadaptations which occur as a result of periods of abstinence followed by re-exposure to alcohol. Individuals who have had multiple withdrawal episodes are more likely to develop seizures and experience more severe anxiety during withdrawal from alcohol than alcohol dependent individuals without a history of past alcohol withdrawal episodes. The kindling effect leads to persistent functional changes in brain neural circuits as well as to gene expression.[56] Kindling also results in psychological symptoms of alcohol withdrawal becoming more intensified

DTs is not just the shakes;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delerium_tremens

Having seen several patients have the DT's in hospital it is not pleasant for the sufferer or supporters.

Babylon if you can persuade your DSis to take the valium it will help a lot, I can appreciate why she is trying to do without but it does help calm those jitters just a tad. It won't be a huge dose but needs to be taken consistantly to get best levels.

SO glad you found the meeting helpful & agree it would be good to get DM there in fact the whole family at diffferent times.

Glad the meeting was helpful; it must have been such a relief to be with people in the same situation as you. I hope you manage to get your mum to go with you next time. I never managed to persuade my MIL to go to AlAnon, even when I promised to go with her. The result was she kept on rewarding SIL every time she spent the entire week's budget on booze, leaving BIL and herself with no food. MIL would just trot along, take SIL off to the shops and pay for everything, pick up the missed mortgage payments and bills. poor MIL never understood how that was the opposite of what was needed to get SIL to stop drinking.