to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

To be honest, I think if I had been one of those children, then I would be much happier if I went to live with a relative, as long as my brothers and I were together and the relative was kind. Even if it were for a whole term (or longer) and I had to go to a different school. What I would understand from it would be that there were people who were most definitely family - full time family; that they cared enough about us to look after us as if we were their own. Also, I would have been distracted enough by new places, new things, new school, new routine etc that I would not spend a great deal of time dwelling on what was happening at home. I would have missed all that was familiar, and want to see dad and mum, and would probably be horribly homesick at night time. I wouldn't feel punished.

I don't know whether that throws the cat among the pigeons. It is - I am as sure as I can be - how I would feel.

there is no 'emergency situation' though lemony

the situation is as it has been for 9 years

only difference is, people know about it now

Delurking to say how much I admire what you have done for your DNs, Babylon.

I've no doubt they've suffered a lot, and that suffering is sadly nowhere near over, but I feel the love from their extended family, and the readiness of that extended family to care for them and protect them, can only stand them in very good stead. My heart really goes out to you all.

I think that's how I would see it as a child as well. You need order and predictability, as well as kindness and people being interested in how you are doing. Imagine living on your nerves covering up for your ill mother, or wondering where your next meal is coming from? That is just plain awful.

The emergency situation is that now people know, action is being taken and the children can now talk about what has been happening. Once the children start to talk, the floodgates will open and the emotional fall-out of the children needs to be taken care of. That's what I meant.

I think this is one of the few circumstances in which I would consider giving up my job to concentrate on my kids and nephews and nieces full time, btw.

I would be lining up GPs and Counsellors for the aftermath, as far as the kids are concerned, but day to day care needs to be addressed first.

OP, I would probably not feel compassion for my sister because even though I know alcoholism is a disease, deep down I feel appalled when people self-sabotage. I would not push the compassion things for now, just don't behave in a judgemental way, even if you feel like being judgemental, as that might bite you on the arse later. Just move forwards and do the decent things generally.

The children have been covering up for their mother for years, especially the older ones. Now that she has been "found out", they may be experiencing some (entirely misplaced IMO) guilt over it. Removing them from the family home could be seen as punishment for failing to continue protecting their mother adequately (not saying this is a given, just a possibility).

In all of this plan, the best possible outcome for the DC must be sought - including taking into account how they might feel about the discovery of their mother's problem.

Let them feel guilty whilst well fed, and clean and comfortable. Let them feel guilty in the full knowledge that a functional adult is taking responsibility for their well being. Let them feel guilty while they are taking time to be children for a change. For that is surely the best way of feeling guilty.

I would tell them that full hotel services are being provided at my place while their mum gets back on her feet, and ask them what they want to bring from home for the duration ...

Why doesn't the dad take emergency time off for dependants or whatever it is called?

the best way to allay that guilt is to spell it out loud and clear that their mothers and father's behaviours are not acceptable and they should have been protected from them

Actions speak louder than words

this care-plan, shows them that the right thing to do is to keep supporting mum (and dad) /clean up after her/ look after her etc etc

the primary focus of the care-plan has to be the dsis. Alcoholics have to be very selfish/ self-absorbed/ focus/ single-minded to be able to recover. The children need to be in an environment where they are the focus, and their recovery

Boffinmum, I agree with you.

Babylon, I was thinking about your plan last night in relation to the way rehab worked. Obviously it isn't possible for you to impose 8 hours of therapy and two AA meetings per day on your sister - but the principle can be applied, and to me it looks as though your plan does so.

Replace therapy with "being supported to look after her own life" (and leave the AA meetings in!) ... You're pretty close to that. You and the others aren't proposing to bustle around like a house full of lackeys while she reclines on silk cushions, if I understand correctly. You wrote of helping her: supporting her, with love, to get involved in sorting things out. Whenever you've got the moral strength, I'm sure you will prompt her to think and talk about what's been happening and how she can continue constructively with the processes you're initiating. It's a domestic version of rehab. Looks good to me :)

She's a lucky girl.

'A conference will happen very soon and at that conference we have no doubt that the DCs will become subjects of a protection plan. If the professionals involved are not happy with the plan we have in place, and they seek to remove the DCs to a place of safety - that place of safety will be either my house or their grandparents house.

I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but maybe it has to to make Dsis realise?'

Babylon, I am inclined to agree a bit with MrD here that there is an element of enabling rearing its head. Don't get sucked into the alcoholism merry go round.

What happens to the DCs is for their benefit and no arrangement for them should be contemplated in order to have an influence on the Dsis. They DCs must not be used by anyone in this situation with any other end in mind than their welfare first, middle and last. End of. I hope that is what the CP referral is about and I hope you and the GPs understand that.

The Dsis can do what she wants, and her H too. The DCs' welfare comes first. They are children. They have enormous needs and those needs must be met, if not in their house then at yours or the GPs, and I have no doubt that you and your parents will be up to the task. I am glad if they are moved it will be to family and not farmed out in the community.

Yes, the Dsis might be made to sit up and pay attention if the children were removed, but this cannot be the primary reason to move them. The adults' circumstances are up to them to deal with. Decisions about the DCs need to be made only on the basis of what is good for them.

Absolutely agree with that, math.

What math wrote.

Alcoholism is truly a family disease. Your sister could very well go onto lose everything including her children and she could still drink afterwards. There are no guarantees here re alcoholism.

The childrens welfare (rather than your sister's or indeed her husband's) must remain uppermost in everyone's minds here.

I would suggest you read the following (it is online)
"Alcoholism a Merry-Go-Round Name Denial" by Joseph L. Kellermann.

there is a real split here, I hope Op you are able to consider the issues thrown up from both sides of the fence. I agree with MrsD that if DBIL does not step up then alternatives to your current situation may need to be considered and those would be absolutly the right thing to do, Im just not sure now is the right time. I would like to see a few more days and dsis being able to activly say and behave in a way that shows she is fully aware of what is going on around her and make the moves to prioratise her family, it needs a realistic time line, I think the CP conference will provide this.

I didnt read the link I posted but I did skim it so not sure I can say if I agree or not about the enabling, But i do think there is a big difference in enabling recover and enabling drinking/ risk bahaviour and not facing up. I still think the current situation is enabling recovery, but DBIL must be keystone otherwise it will be far to difficult for you to sustain. It has been almost a week now and I think although progress is expected to be slow just now, I worry how you can keep going.

I tend agree more with lemmony and garlic, but It must be DBIL keeping the children safe and everyone else supporting Him, he needs to be making some of the big desion making and doing most of the practical stuff for the children now he has had this time to get his head round things and his feet on the ground.

I hope you are bearing up and remaining strong

Hi everyone.

TET I am fine with having all options thrown up for discussion - as I've said before I've not had to deal with this at such close quarters before.

Previously, I've dealt with alcoholism from a professional POV and I've always had very clear signposts to follow - I've also only ever had my "bitesize chunk" to deal with - I've never had to consider the whole thing in one go before

Tonight I've had a long conversation with my dad. He isn't a happy man at all

We are into day two of our plan and already DM is doing more than she agreed, and more than she should be doing.

DF is rightly very concerned about the impact this is having on DM, and will continue to have. She isn't old, but she's no spring chicken either.

Yesterday and today she has been at DSIS' house before 9.30am, so DSIS has not been alone in the house for more than 30-40 minutes.

She has washed, shopped, cooked, cleaned and decorated - with the help of Dsis - but has stayed until after 8pm both evenings.

She called me to tell me how well things had gone today. While she has been there, I have been running DMs business - nothing strenuous, but even so....

DF, BIL & my DH have all been at work.

DF isn't happy as he is very concerned that DM is trying to fix Dsis. He is shocked and angry that 40 year old parents of 4 DCs are unable to parent their own DCs - he is aiming this mostly at BIL.

BIL came home this evening from work and apparently the DCs just went wild. He does not have any control over them, he cannot discipline them and he doesnt try to instill any calmness in them.

DF has expressed his concern tonight to me, that he fears Dsis will relapse when DM attempts to withdraw a little. He has also said that he thinks DM knows this and for that reason she will stay as long as she can each day for an indefinite period.

Rightly or wrongly I've forwarded some of the links from here to my parents email address. I need DM to read about enabling and hiding bottles and the merry go round of alcoholism.

I've read them and taken an awful lot of them on board - I need DM to do the same.

DM seems to think we are on the up and have turned a corner - DF and I still think we're on the way down and we've yet to hit rock bottom

I hope we are both wrong.

Dsis seems a little too compliant IMHO, she is too willing to make positive changes.

Again I hope I am wrong

She is nowhere near the bottom yet, because you are all still helping her. When she has utterly alienated the lot of you, and you are no longer helping her, then you will know she has hit rock bottom.

IMO.

I don't want to wave false flags of hope, Babylon, but could it be that BIL's general apathy/passivity has been a major thorn in her side? That she couldn't cope and couldn't admit it?

If that were the case, she's got every reason to feel positive.

I read a lot of negative posts here about "cries for help" but, often, they are real. Perhaps SIL wanted you to find her in that state & see how desperate she was?? Needless to say - even if this is true (and there's no guarantee it is) - she's going to hit some very hard downswings at various points. She really will need to have lots of relevant support in place: AA people and care workers, for preference. Plus, importantly, BIL's going to have to start looking after his home and family, or stand up and confess he can't do it.

I feel for your dad ... and am really touched by what you said about your mum! She feels the patient is engaging positively, then? I can see where you got your general brilliance from :) :)

Boffin & others - I'm not pushing any one perspective on alcohol addiction, because I've seen them all. Yes, we "look for the similarities" but alcoholics are individuals, you know. I'm really bloody glad no-one had that attitude towards me. I know how it'd have affected me and, ultimately, would have proved you right. The people who had powers to decide my fate showed more faith in me, thank goodness.

well you will only know if you are right or wrong if she is given the oppertunity to take control her self.

I think it is understandable and only natural that your mum has been there and done the things she has done over the past two days. Afterall it is her dd and she wants to shield and care for her. But your DF is right she does need to step back and soon it is maybe a little of what your dsis needs to feel to an extend, but it cant be over an extended period of time obviously or enabling probably will take over.

Sounds like BIL has his head firmly in the sand still. The thing is if she relapses she is going to relapse, Dm cant have control over that or remove it.

Dsis does need time on her own and DBIL needs to take the riegns when he gets home. Is it suggestable to DM to maybe go in at lunch time and leave at tea time. or pop in the morning for a short period and then again in the evening? I think it is important to go back over with DM the original plan too and contact the crisis team and inform them DM is doing more than is agreed. the plan needs constant reviewing by them too.

just to add I think someone does need to take DBIL to task. His behaviour and his role in all of this needs to be confronted. If I where his SIL or his PIL I would be serving him with some very serious ultimatums about his role and commitment in this family unit.