to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

Without sounding too harsh either, I think a section 47 CP referral is actually the best thing that could happen in terms of DSIS accepting responsibility and facing up to what she has become.

I tried to explain to DPs today that while we are pussy footing around making the house nice and lots of cups of tea, the only thing DSIS has actually lost is the alcohol.

She still has her family, her DH and DCs, she still has her dog and her 5 bed detached house - with the added bonus that someone else is cleaning it for her and cooking for the DCs and doing the ironing etc.

So far, it is only spoken words that have held any threat of losing DH or DCs - temporarily or permanently

I think it would help to make her face up to her addiction if she were made to sit around the CP conference table and see what has been written about her in black and white yellow in this authority

I don't want to see her lose her DCs for any length of time - but she needs tough love, and fast.

She also needs to understand that what is being said is not an idle threat.

I am so sorry for what you and your family is going through.

I have absolutely no experience or no advise, but on reading this, it strikes me that the husband has been a very neglectful father, allowing this to happen under his nose? She has let the family down no doubt, but she is ill from alcoholism. What is his excuse? Busy working late?

bossy, Im not firing anything at her. It is usefull to be informed. I have not asked her for any details and I have not judged her. I think based on waht OP has already posted it is Ok to discuss..no?

Op has already made clear up thread that she is already knowledgable herself. So Im not sure what your critisim is. My earlier posts where in responce to another poster who I was exchaning some upto date information with in support of OP as i felt that this would be benificila in allowing that other poster to understand some of the reasoning around what has been arranged. I dont have any direct experinces but I think it is benificial to share as much knowlede as possible to ensure OP understandsa and is able process and discuss her situation.

I was just coming back on to read any updates from OP and reassure her that S47 does not always result in care procceedings, which Im sure she already knows but needs time to proccess the info she was given already today.

Anyway Babylon I dont think anyone should have a monopoly of what is being posted as support to you, You are obviously a very capable lady experincing a very difficult situation, and i appologise if I have over estimated that in my posts to you. I would definatly not panick about S$& But i would if I where you discuss with the crisis team coordinater your concerns and ask any questions as to what you should expect.

Given the amount of family support the children have available it's highly unlikely anyone will be thinking about care proceedings. They will be looking to ensure the children's safety so may push for either the children to go to your parents or your Dsis to leave the home. The last thing anyone will want to do with a family that is working so hard to protect the children is start legal proceedings. The plan you have put in place will reassure children's services that the children's needs will be prioritised and protected by the wider family. If a child protection plan is put in place this does not mean the children will be removed, in the vast majority of cases this does not happen, particularly with a family like you looking out for the children.

Oh, Babylon, how horrid. I'm afraid I assumed child protection were already involved, too. Does your sis understand this though? You're very switched on, so if you'd not realised it, it would be easy for your sis to miss. Maybe it will help focus her mind a bit?

You've already accepted how hard this is going to be; don't let it grind you down though. There'll be problems, you'll need the patience and determination of a saint, tolerance never seen before, and great fortitude. Sometimes you won't manage it. Don't beat yourself up about it when it happens. Come here, rant, rave, cry, whatever you need to do to get yourself through it. (eat cake)

I'll say it again, those kids are lucky to have you.

Babylon - I expect you'd know this anyway but if there is family available to take the children, won't they look at that before taking them out of the family entirely? Even if they have to leave the family home (although I have to say I still think it would be better for your sister if she was the one who had to leave), they have your parents and your own offer to house them, and neither you nor your parents are going to leave them in their mother's care unsupervised.

Ah of course you are /were Babylon I'll wind me neck in then!

However this....

Unfortunately information sharing protocols don't appear to be the strong point for this locality either, and all 3 workers have made contact separately

Makes my blood boil...I've seen it with vulnerable adults, why are some of these people so bloody terratorial with their info? Surely in this sort of case (& it's hardly unique I'd have thought) a FAMILY conference implies shared information. It's this sort of nonsense that leads to Baby P type cases.

Anyhoo....I hope you all get the support you need. You are an amazing aunty!

And i do agree with you on the info sharing Bossy it is very frustrating, particularly with vulnerable adults. that is where my direct experience is and you are right very terratorial, if many workers where as upto speed with what they should share rather than over worry what they are not sure about, things would be far more efficient. Many proffessionals are very misguided when it comes to sharing info.

I wonder if info sharing just doubles or triples the chance that details would fall through the cracks or it would all turn into a game of 'telephone'. Looking on the bright side here maybe..

Surely taking the children out of the home would give them the message that they were the ones who had done something wrong, especially if they do not get a family placement. Removing the DSis seems to me to be the absolute best option and if the BIL is as high up as mentioned in his profession then maybe he could pay for private care for her?

And I also think the BIL needs to step up here. No use raking over what happened and how he managed to be so blithely oblivious over the years, but if this has been his habit it needs to stop and he needs to get a firm grip of the situation for the sake of his DCs.

Can't sleep again

Just to be clear, CP involvement is a given now, considering what eldest DCs have spoken about.

A conference will happen very soon and at that conference we have no doubt that the DCs will become subjects of a protection plan. If the professionals involved are not happy with the plan we have in place, and they seek to remove the DCs to a place of safety - that place of safety will be either my house or their grandparents house.

I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but maybe it has to to make Dsis realise?

WRT information sharing, I don't know of a single professional who ever got disciplined for sharing too much information. I know of plenty who have been disciplined for keeping it to themselves.

When I was training them, I instilled in them that they should never be the only person who knows the information. Sadly, some people still believe that knowledge is power which is where a lot of the problems arise, thinking specifically now Victoria Climbie and Baby P

Again thank you everyone for your posts - I am overwhelmed by the support being offered here and I appreciate each and every one of you taking time out to comment and share your experiences.

Please don't ever worry about me being offended by your opinions etc, I'm sure you've realised I am a pretty tough cookie and I have skin like a rhino when I need to!!

I am taking time out for me and my family each and every day, and my DCs will always be my priority. But as ever I shall continue to offer as much support to my DNs as is necessary/I can manage.

Hello Babylon

blood y hormones keeping me up!!

Your mind must be c hurning ..but remember this in yrs to c ome your DNs will be okthanks to you .

Thanks bossy

I've been up to breast feed DS, and just wide awake now

Going to make myself a big fat hot chocolate and see if that helps

My mind is churning, there's so many little thoughts flitting about - but hey ho, I guess that's life!

maryz with respect, I resent your use of the words simply and happily; there is no ?simple? or ?happy? about it

I am not denying that having the main-care giving as the alcoholic is far more complicated, but having daddy removed is NOT simple or happy

I am inclined to think it is more important to have the alcoholic removed if that is the main care-giving parent; they are in a position to cause far more damage to the kids. And in this instance dad has not been stepping up to do anything to reduce or minimise that harm

If my husband had been the stay at home parent whilst I was out at work all day, I would have had him removed MUCH earlier. I never never ever left him in charge of the kids whilst he was drunk/ hung over

I've been lurking on this thread. Horrible situation, and you are an amazing sister for the support you are offering to your sister's children.

Will you be attending the case conference? I think some of the comments about the dh are very relevant. SS will consider that he has also neglected the children by ignoring the situation for so long (similar personal experience with ss). He really needs to get his priorities right. All this time he has been going out to work leaving your Dsis to it, and even now, he is still leaving the children in her care. Surely the children are more important than a 5 bed house! He needs to urgently show some real commitment if they are to hold on to the children.

Could he get annual leave for now? Drop to part time?

BTW I was not/am not a SAHP; me and my husband work full time. Child care was finely tuned and depended on both of us to make it work.

he was unreliable and I often missed work/ was late to cover for him being absent/drunk

Its advised by Al-Anon to 'detach' from teh alcoholic before making teh decision to perservere with the relationship. Sofamily life is arranged without depending on the alcoholic for anything. This minimises disruption to the kids and the other parent, minimises arguements and opportunities to enable/ lessens co-dependency

Ive watched my kids witness their alcoholic father, his bodily fluids, his incoherency; his absence; his letting them down. They defend him to the last; they make excuses for him, because they LOVE him unconditionally , he is their DAD

It is not OK

It must be really hard to witness, poor children. But your dsis has an illness which she needs help with. Ultimatley it is up ti her but she will need all the support she can get.

I have never experienced anything like this, but my instinct tells me it's the children who should matter more to the family at the moment, rather than your sister, as she is ill and that needs fixing by professionals, whereas you can all step in and take care of her kids until she has improved.

If it was my nephews and nieces I would be considering taking them in with me for the duration, and sorting their lives out as far as possible. More stable, tbh. BIL needs to concentrate on their mother for now.

Babylon

re this part of your comment from your post of 17th Sept at 22.39.

"I think it would help to make her face up to her addiction if she were made to sit around the CP conference table and see what has been written about her in black and white yellow in this authority".

But equally it may not. Also she may well be still mired in denial (as her both enabling and codependent H certainly has been and perhaps still is). What's happening re him; he has also played and still plays a role in her alcoholism. Infact you are all playing roles now; this is what happening within families where a family member is an alcoholic.

Is he talking to Al-anon, I sincerely hope so.

Your sister has to have to want to help her own self here; people running around after her will achieve nothing and it will not help her.

Quite apart from yourself Babylon, its their children I feel the most sorry for in all this; both their parents have let them down abjectly.

There are no guarantees re alcoholism; your sister could well go onto lose absolutely everything and she could still choose to drink afterwards.

ATila you articulate in 1 post, what I have been trying to say for days

Im a bit confused by the links that EnthusiasticTroll and I posted earlier; he document I found was NHS. There is talk in these documents of supporting the alcoholic...in ways which scream 'enabling' at me. It seems at such odds with everything else

Id be really interested to hear your thoughts on that....

"I am inclined to think it is more important to have the alcoholic removed if that is the main care-giving parent; they are in a position to cause far more damage to the kids. And in this instance dad has not been stepping up to do anything to reduce or minimise that harm

If my husband had been the stay at home parent whilst I was out at work all day, I would have had him removed MUCH earlier. I never never ever left him in charge of the kids whilst he was drunk/ hung over"

MrDobalina has voiced my thoughts exactly.

Which begs the question: What action will they take with the children when both parents have been equally neglectful.

QS I was told by my lawyer that, if i was not seen to be protecting my dcs and keeping them safe, I was in real danger of having them taken away (this did not need saying to me BTW)

i dont know what constitutes 'real danger' though

"Infact you are all playing roles now; this is what happening within families where a family member is an alcoholic."

But in the short term emergency situation, the children must be taken care of - and that means that the family is stepping in and providing the children with what their own parents are failing to do. When the immediate emergency is being dealt with, that's what you do - for the sake of the children.

The aftermath will be dealt with by SS etc. and if the sister will not/cannot face up to her alcoholism and act accordingly, or the BIL, for that matter - then action will need to be ramped up.

While this initial shock/fall out is occurring, I just don't think that going in with hobnail boots will solve/help anything.

BUT: I am not arguing against any poster who has said that the sister needs to be made aware/face up to what will happen if she doesn't stop drinking. I totally agree.

The kids were playing in their mother's vomit an hour after being picked up from school. The dog was eating it.

For me, this would be a RIGHT, THAT'S IT moment, and I would have scooped them up and taken over their care.

They would be in my house with regular meals, clean clothes, a lovely comfortable room, regular homework and parents' evenings, and an awful lot of TLC in order to allow them a normal life. I would not criticise their parents, I would not do anything other than keep them well looked after for as long as necessary. I would feel this was my duty.

Am I alone?