to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

ET I feel too strongly I think about the importance of the dsis being removed or the children being removed....a quick blood let approach, rather than the slow leakage and appliance of sticky plasters.

IMO the best outcome will be if dsis falls off the wagon sooner rather than later and save everyone a lot of time and effort; ditch this support plan and go about supporting the kids only

Its not the approach babylon and her family are taking. I dont think I can add anything which is useful and OP probably doesnt want be asserting my dissenting view over and over

Very very very best wishes x

In fairness I think rock bottom is different for different people. I think its a myth that rock bottom is the life or death scenario. I think it is more about recognisisng the life or death and what continuing on the path they are on will mean to them and those they love.

I know people who have escaped serious illness and injury by just facing what alone thier future will look like, the may have been able sustain such a life style for another 10 20 years or they have killed them selfs the very next day with one dodgy does of heroin and I have none other people who have sustained so much damamge over such a period of time, that one drink would inevitably kill them. I just dont think you can give a proper definition of rock bottom.

Hiya Babylon. I haven't read all the thread but wanted to say my dad was a drunk although not to the extent your DSis is. My Auntie used to come up and rescue us when he was particularly bad i.e. being aggressive and we would stay at her house. I, as do my siblings, have a great relationship with my Aunty and Uncle and will always be grateful they added some normalcy to our life. You will be in for a tough time but you are doing the right thing by the DC's and they will appreciate that.

Good luck. xx

'Rock bottom' is not what other people cosider it to be Skye its what she , usually in retrospect, recognises as her lowest point. Sadly it may be someway down from here - she has a home, a husband and a family bending over backwards to support her.

What does SHE say in all this ? does she recognise there is a problem ? does she want to stop drinking ? is she remorseful , does she have the slightest idea what her alcoholism has done to her kids ? Does she care ? What about her husband ? he comes aross as ineffectual at best .....

Babylon , you and your family have my respect and I wish you all well, your DN's are very lucky to have you all on their side. Sadly, unless your SISTER wants to stop drinking and is prepared to engage fully with the support to do so; I fear it may all be for nothing

DOI exH is a drug addict and alcoholic (still in denial)

everyones rock bottom is different huh sky...my husband was hospitalised, vomitting blood. Lost jobs/ driving license/ our home/ crashed his car/ lost us, his family....still drinking

A persons rock bottom...is when they feel bad enough to stop...some people never reach it

well I think that is understandable, maybe have a read about early interventions and some of the ideas and reasearch availible that considers the impact of early intervention and what difference supportive networks can have on children and thier families for the better.

i should add...he has had the same job for the last 7 years

He was regularly asleep in piles of vomit and faeces...despite this, no one else would have any idea he was an alcoholic-highly functioning

yes, I see that. I know that nothing will work unless she wants to stop drinking, but is it better to step in and try and help her see that, or to leave her to possible die rather than help her? I know from experience with my friend that nothing I said or did could get through to her and it took near death to get her to change, but at least I had tried to help, I suppose thats the point Im thinking of....

MrD, I see what you are saying and I suppose that if Dsis does not respond to family trying to help, then they will have to remove the children.. which is what you are saying

I think you're right, Enthusiastic - in reality, rock bottom is the point at which each individual realises what they're actually doing and chooses to do something about it - whether that's continue and kill themselves, or try and turn it around.

It might be considered trite or irrelevant, but I found Marian Keyes' novels on the subject of alcoholism/drug addiction very interesting to read - the realism shone out of them - which makes sense, because she is a recovering alcoholic. Rachel's Holiday is far lighter in tone, but shows that what might be considered rock bottom (nearly killing herself with drug and alcohol OD and having to be stomach pumped) really wasn't; it was falling off the wagon after being in rehab for a while that hit her.
In This Charming Man, the alcoholic woman is only one character of many - but she drives her children drunk, she sleeps with a co-worker, all sorts of terribly degrading scenarios - and her rock bottom is when her DH leaves her and takes the children with him. BUT it might not work for other alcoholics - losing home and family might drive them further into the arms of their addiction.
Might be worth a read (although be warned, if you haven't read it, This Charming Man is primarily about DV and abuse)

Re Babylon's family situation - obviously the Crisis team has experience in this situation and I assume that they've made this plan with the best intentions for everyone involved.

What I may have missed is how long this plan is for - is it a "let's see what happens and review in a few weeks" plan, or is this it? Because in that respect I also think that the sister is being helped too much and that in reality, while everyone else will feel better about the situation, Sister is just going to be going through the motions until she gets let off the leash again and she will just self-destruct as soon as she's "allowed".

Babylon, you are fucking amazing!

Just needed to say that :)

rock bottom is different for different people ... Of course it is.

Since my primary experience was in rehab, followed by AA after discharge, the addicts I knew best were those who had received intervention. A smart intervention can BE the rock bottom and, ime, those with enough people caring about them made a safer recovery than the majority I met in meetings, who'd been alone in freefall.

Babylon's sister has been very lucky in that her family was - and is - prepared to muck in; even luckier that the appropriate professionals were marshalled so efficiently (you're a marvel, Babylon, you really are.)

There's no guarantee it'll work. But the odds are far better than if she were left to her own destruction. You're right, sweetheart, it will be three steps forward to steps back. If you can keep it up, an 'observational' mindset will be most useful to you I think. Quite interesting, too, in its own way.

www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/nta_review_of_the_effectiveness_of_treatment_for_alcohol_problems_fullreport_2006_alcohol2.pdf

a google search threw this up
looks very relevant, although i have only read the contecnts page
it is an NHS document

that is interesting pages 25 to 30 are particualrly relevent. Im not sure how upto date that review is in terms of date being 2006 but it certainly shows some of the ways that support is organised in recent times I would imagine. Im no expert but I imagine that any ways forward are very much modeled on family support and service user choice and envolvement, and that is because it shows results.

Of course everyones POV is an interesting one & good to have to help in making decisions when a poster has a problem.

I just think trying to assess the Dsis problem & the effectiveness of her treatment & support at this moment in time from the thumbnail sketch we have from Babylon is not going to be terribly helpful as we are not the HCP's involved with ALL the details.

As I see it the empathy & support that Babylon has been given & I know MN-ers will continue to give, is the key here not trying to second guess if the DSis is getting the right treatment ( I too wonder if she actually HAS reached that rock bottom stage yet but I'm not there to assess)

I don't think Dsis has reached her rick bottom yet - I am genuinely preparing for a relapse in the next few weeks/months.

The support being offered now is short term support, ie let's see how things are going in a few weeks.

If there is no significant improvement, then the plan will be reassessed and DCs removed for there own safety.

The level of support being give now is simply not sustainable longterm - purely because of the distance she lives from me and DPs (approx 35 miles) which is an hours drive, or more in rush hour.

I am keeping an open mind regarding Dsis' progress. At the moment I think she is being compliant to get people on side, but she won't be able to sustain it for any length of time - hence I don't think she has reached rock bottom yet.

I appreciate all of the support and hand holding - and I totally respect all of the different POVs - I've never dealt with this before with a family member, where it impacts directly on me and my dcs and DH.

I am a recent new mum, my DCs are 7, 3 and 4 months - I need to make sure they are protected too from some of the behaviour of my DNs as well as from seeing Dsis in any kind of state.

Catwoo Dsis' DH has minimised her drinking and at times covered it up. He is scared of her we think, and is struggling himself to accept what has been happening under his nose

Rick????
Oh FGS stupid iPhone

Obviously ROCK!

i was wondering what Rick's bottom looked like and if I could have a stroke of it

it is sad when people cover up for alcoholics because of course they are not actually helping them. My friend had a partner who was very good and made her go to bed when she had drunk too much, but her next bloke was an alcoholic nightmare and once lay down in the road in front of a bus to get her attention shame it didnt drive over him

she always ended up with alcoholic partners, so that they joined her and didnt try and stop her......

just recieved www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/content/publications/content_619this link in my email inbox for anyone who may find it interesting, click on the purple link for silent voices.

Today the two eldest DCs have been spoken to at school by a family support worker. The FSW has reported that she is disturbed by much of what she has heard from them, and she spoke to BIL this afternoon to say she didn't really have any option but to take forward a report under Section 47 of the children's act (child protection) as opposed to Section 17 (Children in Need).

We are now awaiting a date for a CP conference. If there is no significant improvement by the time the conference happens, and as a family we are unable to enforce a robust and adequate care plan, then i suspect we will be facing care proceedings under an Emergency Protection Order

Poor children

That's very worrying for you I know, but may help focus support to prevent this happening? Could bil not get an au pair to help with school runs & after school care? Did the fsw indicate what could be done to prevent the DCs being removed? Thinking about you x

Oh Babylon ...... What a sad situation. I am glad they have been seen by the FSW but so sad that they are now subject to the CP team although that might be the best thing long term.

is the family support worker part of the crisis team? I was assuming from your previouse posts that it would have been multi disciplinary team.

Im am surprised the crisis team have not made you aware that CP assesments would be taking place if not already happening, has no one mentioned the CAF or carried one out? from my understanding they would need to make childrens services aware of youir dsis parenting responsibilities in such a situation.

To be honest I would have expected a S47 under these circumstances rather than a s17. I would not fret this too much but I think someone has messed up along the way in allowing you to feel that this is a fail safe plan that is in place if it is was not already part of child prtection planning.

Im sorry this is very stressfull for you OP.

TET you are obviously in the business & your concern is palpable but what good does firing all these technicalities at the OP?

As I observed upthread we do not know all the details & why should the OP share them all (if she indeed knows them all) we are not here to judge.

Op has been in child protection previously. Tet can use tla's (see what i did there?!) to babs, i believe. Am i correct babylon?

Bossy it's ok, I'm up to speed with all the reports etc - my previous career before maternity leave was local gov children's services - I used to to train the professionals on information sharing, lead professionals and how to complete a CAF so I know all about S17/47 referrals and af9 reports etc!!

I'm a bit out of practice but I remember enough

The FSW is part of the multi-agency team now, but as you will he aware TET there are now TAC (team around the child) meetings and because of the different ages, there are different workers. There's a worker for infant, junior and secondary in Dsis locality area, and the 4 DCs are split across the three age groups.

Unfortunately information sharing protocols don't appear to be the strong point for this locality either, and all 3 workers have made contact separately

I believe kinship placements are the goal whenever children are removed but bearing in mind father is on the scene it may be that sis is the one removed...

I am so sorry for you all babs - chin up kid, you'll not let anyone down. You are doing everything right for your situation because there is rarely black and white. Everyone needs to get through a day at a time now, hourly, possibly in your sis's case. And you're doing that without any further damage to the innocents. You're some woman. All the best.