to feel ashamed and disgusted? Should I be showing compassion?(Long - sorry)

[BabylonPI]

OK,

my DSis and I haven't seen eye to eye for quite some time - the last time I visited her house was in September 2009 when dd2 was a month old. Since then, I've given birth to DS1 - she didn't know I was pregnant with him as I asked people not to tell her. I didn't want her to know. The last time I had any contact with her was in August 2011 when she ruined my DD2s birthday party by starting a massive row with my inlaws

DSis has 4 DCs, and I love them dearly. I have maintained contact with them even though I haven't had any contact with her.

At the beginning of the summer hols, DSis was admitted to hospital with some unknown illness. My parents begged me to make contact with her, and I did - for them, not for me or for her, but for my parents.

She was discharged from hospital (without a diagnosis) and we met for the first time in 12 months at my parents house. She met my DS for the first time and it was fine.

On Monday this week I took a trip up to her house as it was her DC3s birthday on Tuesday and I wanted to make sure the card and gift was on time. DSis was not expecting me and immediately upon entering her home I felt very uncomfortable - nothing I could put my finger on but very uncomfy.

Her DCs 3&4 told me upon my arrival that I shouldn't use the downstairs loo as mummy has been sick in there and it smells. DC4 also said that Daddy was still at work and he wasn't coming back.

Alarm bells started to ring, and I just felt that she wasn't herself. I thought she had been drinking, but talked myself out of that as I know how ill she has been. DCs asked if me and my DCs could stay for tea - DSis said we must and she would go and fetch takeaway. At this, I said we simply couldn't and had to get home.

I left after approx 45 mins.

On the way home, I called my parents and started off a whole chain of events which I'm devastated by.

I told parents that if I didn't know better I would say she was drunk - parents didn't believe me, so took a trip up to her house unannounced. The shit really hit the fan.
DSis denied drinking, but her whole attitude and demeanour gave her away. She attacked her DH, our parents and all in front of her 4 DCS who were screaming at their GPs to leave as they were making everything worse

It gets worse.

On wednesday, I got a call from DM to say I needed to pick her up ASAP and get to DSis' house.

On arriving there, we find, DSis sat in a heap on the floor covered in her own vomit. The living room floor covered in vomit with the youngest DCs playing in it and the family dog eating it

She was so out of it - sat there in just a bra, completely oblivious to her surroundings. This was at 5pm.
She had collected her children from school in the car in this state (but dressed) just over an hour before. Eldest DC had called her Dad to say they desperately so needed help as mummy was so ill. Daddy called GP and so on and so forth....

Dsis is fighting drunk. DCs are witnessing everything (and it was obvious by their reactions that they've witnessed it before).

Because of her recent stay in hospital, her DH and my DM thought it best to take her back to hospital - she is denying all the time that she has had a drink.

At 10pm last night, she was still twice over the legal drink drive limit - she wasn't fit to be seen by the MH crisis scene until after 2am.

She was vile to the hospital staff, DH, DM - everyone really.

It then all came out. She has been drinking in secret for YEARS. She has conditioned her DCs to say NOTHING by thereatening them with Social Services and telling them they would be taken away.
She has had numerous bumps in her car, and has been breathalysed on one occassion that we are aware of (obviously clear on this occasion). Her DCs finally admitted that mummy often mounts the kerb when driving and they have been covering up for her.

She also has major issues with dependency on painkillers. Again, she has denied this vehemently.

She was sent home from hospital soon after 5am today. She has a crisis team in place who will visit her daily at home. She is on a detox as she is severely alcohol dependent.

She missed her DC4s first day at school and her DC1s first day at Secondary school due to her drinking.

When she arrived home, her first concern was that she didn't want to see her MIL, and after that I received a call to ask if I had seen her iPad as she couldn't remember what she had done with it.

I dropped EVRYTHING last night to go to her and her DCs, and her major concern is updating her facebook status :(

I am disgusted, angry and ashamed of her. Right now I don't want to know her. I am livid that she has risked her children's lives and the lives of others by driving drunk on a daily basis for god knows how long.

I will do anything to make sure the DCs are safe, but I'm not sure I can see her without without giving her a good hard slap

Is this wrong? Should I be supporting her unconditionally?
AIBU for being this disgusted with her?
Where do I go from here?

She has some deep rooted issues which she had told everyone she was addressing and was getting counselling for - this was also a lie.

I'm gutted

Sorry, I did say it was long.

Just to add, school are aware - or at least they will be this morning.

I'm so pleased that the DCs had a day out with you and were able to be children for the day at least. I hope your DBiL's mother will be able to give him some emotional support even if she is not prepared to give physical support.

Hoping all goes well

Unfortunately MIL, it seems, just wants to take sides and apportion blame, which is not helpful. She also has a very "told you so" attitude which is just annoying.

I shall continue to offer as much time and support for the DCs as I can

Babylon, well done, you've got an awful lot sorted already. Be prepared for it all to go wrong, be prepared to be the villan of the piece, but remind yourself daily that you did this for the kids - and they are what matters.

They may go off the rails themselves (particularly the eldest) but with your support there is no need for that to be the end. There is a support network for teens suffering from family alcoholism - I wish we had know about it when my neice was suffering, I think it would have helped.

Antabuse didn't work with my brother, the pull of the alcohol was strong enough for him to 'suffer' to still have it - but it is still worth a try.

Good luck

Babylon

My siblings and I have been dealing with my alcoholic mum. We've had her falling down the stairs and laying in the hallway for 9 hours before being found; we've had her constantly being sick and having diahorrea and looking as white as a sheet as her blood level was so low, she was half dead.

We've had her fobbing off the doctors and us about how she is. We have taken the bull by the horns and spoken to her doctor and got her admitted to hospital (which has had to be done several times).

She hated my sister and I (not my brother so much as he was not so active in all this, but backed my sister and I up fully).

She's now been dry for about a year. Please also note that paranoia plays a part in alcohol withdrawal. My mum gets paranoid from time to time. Confusion also comes into play. There's also shame and denial all at the same time and all contradictory.

Now that my Mum has been dry for a while, she now realises that we had to do what we did. We have spent months just getting drawn into this huge drama of hospital; illness; diagnosis (she's terminal and doesn't have THAT long to live); care (she's getting care through the council); prescriptions; organising finances etc. etc. etc. It's absolutely bloody exhausting.

For a while you will be in there and then you will need to pull back. Otherwise it will send you bonkers. For what it's worth, my siblings and I feel a multitude of emotions about Mum: Disgust at the vomit/diahorrea (incontinence); pity because she's been carrying her problems with her since childhood; disbelief (how could she sink into self-pity when she has us and her grandchildren) - you name it. I think that after a while, once you get your head around it all, compassion is what's left.

But this story is a lot different to yours in that there are no young children "directly" involved. Would Surestart be of any use for the after-school period before your BIL arrives home? Or an au pair? Nanny? Just throwing some more ideas in the pot to think about.

to you and all your family. It's a very, very tough situation.

unfortunately babylon MiL's approach is probably the one that is most likely to help your sister

Please please please go to Alanon meetings - you are all been drawn onto the merry-go-round of enabling and are in danger of becoming co-dependant

drinkning whilst taking metronidozole makes you sick---so that may have been prescribed for dual purpose, all with the antabuse?

MrD I agree with much of what you are saying. Therefore my priority is to the children only.

It pains me to say it, but Dsis can drink herself to oblivion if that's what she has to do - but over my dead body will it it be at the risk of her children

I dont agree that MIL approach will be the most helpfull, It may be the right choice for MIL to make for herself and that is also finefor her, but the support is needed and the children deserve this. The alternative will be very different and Im pretty sure in the long run that is not what should happen. What they are doing is certainly not enabling her to drink and maintain her previuos life style it is enabling her to help her family. But you certainly do need to make sure you are preserving your self and your own family and accessing the helpyou need and I do agree that should through alanon. So long as the saftey net is thier for the children if you need to step back you must do so also.

xpost baylon, I think that is a very good approach and mind set just now. with a bit of luck that respect for your dsis will be earned by her again.

dsis is being shielded from the consequences of her drinking. If her lovely lovely family werent there/prepared to clean up, collect and supervise the kids, she would either be removed from the house or her children would be removed from her. As it stands she has no incentive to stop doing what she has been doing for the last 9 years

she is not being enabled to take care of her family; she is having her family taken care of for her

seriously if this approach worked....alcoholism would not be a problem. I dont know anyone who hasnt tried variations of this technique, a million times over...

she needs to hit her rock bottom...she hasnt...and she is now being protected from it

I think that is a difficult assesment to make, If this is not her rock bottom then the safeguards in place are even more neccessary to keep her family afloat.

I think it is impossible to apply the same rules to a mother with 4 dcs as it is for any single person. Her children will be removed if she is hitting her rock bottom with no safe guards. She is detoxing, if she choses to go and drink that will be upto her no one can physically prevent that either way all they can do is reduce the blow and impact all round.

I think it is impossible to apply the same rules to a mother with 4 dcs as it is for any single person

I am not doing that ETroll
I was married to my alcoholic husband, the father of our children, for 12 years. I had him removed from the house

What is your Sis's husband doing about all this? I don't understand why it is all up to you and your parents to sort out.She is not a single motherThey are his kids FFS? Did he not realise the extent of her drinking?

Im not underestimating what you are saying, I think that removing an alcoholic father and husband has very different consequenses when they obviously have a very able mother.

I grew up in a very similar household as you describe. the damamge that has occured for my self and my siblings is untold, there was no support and intervention. DV and alcoholism was not recognised in the harm it does to children. The priorirty is the children, thier father is expressing concerns of being able to maintain thier care alone. The LA will want at all costs to avoid any care precceedings as this does have damaging effects on the children also.

Sadly it is not a prescribtion situation where one size does not fit all. I do tend to agree with you though, that the impact will be far less if Ops sis was removed and maybe undergoing residentail detox and rehabilitation, but there is just not the funding for that. I think it is correct to have the goal that one day she will be sober and caring herself for her family. But the reality is the LA will be more interested in the childrens welfare and what is inplace to protect them and reduce the harm and long term effects.

The relism is that all harm and negative effects cant be totaly removed due to so many differnet and political issues and cosntarints. But she is also thier mother and they will love and defend her and her removal may have a longer lasting effect, especially if the dcs are up rooted to thier grandparents house. I dont think any approach will appear to be the right approach. I do respect and understand your concernes also agree to some extent that for the dsis, there are other options and long term concerns about thye success of what is happening, but I can see why what is happening has been put in place for the best for the children in maintaing a sence of help and normaility.

With all respect MrD as you obviously had an awful time but that was your situation & removing the alcoholic was absolutely the right thing to do as it left you & the DC's in the family home to rebuild your lives. Your DC's still had a carer who was there for them.

In this case removing the mother or children from the home would fracture this damaged family still further it seems to me.

ALSO non of us has all the details, we don't need them. The HCP involved are working out a strategy for this family and if it is deemed to be the best thing for that family then it's as good a plan as any.

As I see it Babylon is the one who needs our support here- not long a new mum again herself, ( if I remember correctly Babylon?)the strain of this must be immense.

I dont see how Babylon and family are enabling if they have got in as much support as necessary and are protecting the children. i would say that Dsis has pretty much reached rock bottom, the state that she was found in.

MIL walking away is up to her, but that is not going to help the children in any way and she should be ashamed of that.

Babylon - you appear to be doing the best that you can for your dsis and the children in what is a very difficult situation.

I would say that keeping your sister busy and helping her to sort her life out is a good thing to do..

Hi Babylon, have a huge amount of sympathy for your situation.

I think that the approach you and your family are adopting will give your sister's children the best chance for the future. If yourself, your brother, your parents, and your sister's PILs can all draw up a rota for the foreseeable future so that someone is always there for the after school period, before your sister's DH comes home from work, then you may all be able to establish a more normal, happy routine for the children.

Also, the more of you that are involved, the less likely your sister will be to feel hostility towards any one of you for taking over. Admirable though the offer to have her children live with you was, I am sure it would have very negative implications on her feelings towards you.

It may well be true that your sister has not yet reached rock bottom, and that by having you and your family sweeping in as the cavalry will mean that she doesn't face the implications of her alcohol abuse. But surely the most important factor is damage limitation for her children, and for them to know that they will be protected and cared for by you guys.

Best of luck to you all

This is all such early days for Babylon and her family and they are doing an amazing job. Of course there will be backsliding and drama and anger etc etc but the main thing is that the children will not be left again to bear such a dangerous situation and awful secret on their own.
My cousin and his wife both had significant drug problems for much of their lives. Their two small boys were completely in the thick of it, including being told at one point by their mother that they would probably find her dead one day after school. She always threatened them that they would end up in a foster family if people found out how bad it was. My cousin took his own life when the boys were teenagers.
This all took place in another country from me and my family. Those two boys are adults now. One has his own drug and alcohol problems. The other has worked and studied incredibly hard, never put a foot wrong and for the rest of their lives will be sending money back to support his mother and brother. He has never really been a child.
I feel very strongly about the damage inflicted on children by adults whose lives are out of control. Babylon I so admire your focus on the children.

"dsis is being shielded from the consequences of her drinking. If her lovely lovely family werent there/prepared to clean up, collect and supervise the kids, she would either be removed from the house or her children would be removed from her. As it stands she has no incentive to stop doing what she has been doing for the last 9 years."

I disagree a bit with this statement. The clean up/collect & supervising kids is a short term emergency action until things calm down and their Dad can organise things with work etc. It takes a few days to get an action plan functioning. I don't believe that sister is being shielded, more like they're helping the children - the focus is giving the children a more stable framework rather than the sister.

BB unfortunately my experience is the same experience shared by most people who have a relationship with an alcoholic

babylon does need support

I will bow out

good luck

sky being found unconscious in a pool of vomit is fairly normal for most alcoholics...it is unlikely to signify her rock bottom

I dont think you should bow out MrD. I think all perspectives are helpfull for the OP, All situations have thier own uniquness. Even though some other posters myself included have some other ideas to you, that does not mean that the OP is not finding any of your words helpfull to her ecpecially in understanding this situation and helping her define and remain justified in her own feelings about her dsis.

so what would rock bottom be and how are the family supposed to let her get to that point without it affecting the children?

Not looking for an argument, just genuinely interested in what would be considered rock bottom? and whether the children are supposed to be there to see it or not......

My friend ended up in hospital on the verge of death, which I would call rock bottom, but she had no children.....