Wanting to see the OW

[Ormiriathomimus]

OK. Many of you know my story. In short I am 3 month down the line from discovering DH's affair with co-worker. It's over, we are reconciling and doing quite a good job so far. After a few bumpy weeks when neither of us knew what we were supposed to be doing he answered all my questions, been unfailingly supportive and loving. He has addressed all the things that bothered me when his affair was going on - distance from me, intolerance towards DC, lack of interests in family events. Our relationship is (cautiously) better than it has been for years. In turn I have had a good hard look at the way I have been - I can't blame it all on my depression and on tiredness. We have explored stuff that went on in the past that set up resentments that never got addressed. It's fucking HARD WORK and I still get bad days when images dance around in my head and I just want to scream ...but I think we're getting there.

So..... all good stuff. BUT.....

...I want to see the OW. I knew her before the affair, I know where she lives, I have met her kids and her H, I went to her wedding. But since I found out it's as if she has snapped out of existence. And I want to see her again because inspite of the fact that I know she is a very ordinary woman with her own issues and problems and not some irresistible femme fatale - she has taken on an almost mythic significance in my mind. I want to see her being ordinary. (Ideally I'd like her to see us being happy together but I am quite prepared to admit that is childish and a bit needy ). I want to lay the ghost.

She has texted DH once a few weeks ago as if she wanted to resume contact but he sent back a very simple 'Please don't contact me again' so seeing her would be stupid and counterproductive. And she should be nothing to me. My issues and any unfinished business are with DH not her but still...w hen you have a sore tooth you can't stop prodding it with your tongue. She feels like that to me.

I won't do it. But I want to. Is that crazy?

B ut what if ........ she's lost weight, got a good hair cut, and like a pp, had an attitude re-boot. It's a dangerous tactic. Beauty and attraction is obviously in the eye of the beholder and people's looks grow on you.

geegee888, that is interesting that you say that if your husband cheated with somebody who was pig ugly you'd be more upset. I think I'd be less upset. Not that I'm married, or an OW I hasten to add!

Geegee888 i can believe that study you refer to because I am seeing a lovely man but I would be intrigued to see a photo of his xw. But then, what if she looks like Isabella Rosselini? what then!? curiousity satisfied,,, but :-|

The point i was making is that it's natural to want to see the exes of partners who haven't even cheated on you..... ! well, to sort of want to see them.
:-/

Of course the only thing that really relevant NOW Is how ORMs DH behaves from this point on.But equally so the OW doesn't become irrelevant overnight to most of us .How wonderful it would have been to have an off button to stop negative, curious thoughts.To what ever degree she played her part and rightly or wrongly it took me some time to process that.In my case OWs behaviour was most certainly relevant.She changed her hours to be around my DH.Fact.People noticed ,commented on how much she flirted with him.Fact.Even outfits she wore that were different to normal.In the early days of trying to understand this and her it all seemed very relevant.
As I said clearly to ORM it starts to become less significant with time.

Thanks Hector.You seem to get where I'm coming from and what I'm trying to say to ORM to reassure her.As a friend said I chose to understand and forgive my DH because he matters to me.OW doesn't so if I like to have the occasional luxury of disliking her that's my prerogative !

But stargazy all of that behaviour is completely irrelevant, so what she hung around him and tried to be his OW? It should be irrelevant to you what she did. The only time it is relevant is if you have a relationship with her of your own I.e. a friend or sister and then your bad feelings are relevant to your relationship with her only and how she has betrayed that. It is completely irrelevant to your marriage or to you h's affair how she may have behaved during the lead up/affair. It only matters what your h did. If you think it does I have to say I think you probably haven't truly dealt with your h's affair. I don't think getting over an affair properly is about putting on rose tinted spectacles and deflecting your hurt from your h to the ow. It is about seeing the affair for what it is and your h's behaviour for what it is and moving forward having learned from the experience either together or apart. There's no room in that for energy spent on thoughts of what ow might have done.

It is irrelevant to the affair because when you commit to a monogamous relationship, which is by no means the only kind, you commit to not having an affair when, inevitably, someone fancies you and hangs about in hope; flirting and changing their working hours so they can see you. You commit to talking openly about crushes with your monogamous partner and either seeking their help in ending the crush, negotiating a happy non-monogamous relationship change or deciding to leave. It really should be irrelevant if the ow in waiting took off all her clothes and tried to jump on your h. Nothing and ow did/does minimises any part of an h's affair in any way. However that is very uncomfortable a thought if you are still in love.

People who commit to monogamous relationships and maintain concurrent affairs for a period of time are not weak people they are selfish manipulative liars. They want the benefits of a monogamous partner and the excitement and flattery of something new as well and they do not have the required concern for their committed monogamous partner to actually be honest and respectful so instead they lie and manipulate and blame the innocent party in order to protect themselves and their affair. Some decent people make mistakes, those people take full responsibility, they don't lie, some people who have behaved cruelly see the light, they normally take absolute action to end the affair and secure themselves within their marriage/relationship. The ones that I think need to be given up on are the ones who have affairs then cover them up, then lie when they are discovered until they can't lie anymore and then do the good doggy act until the wife stops being mad all the time not bothering to actually take any action to make things better which means the wife doesn't really notice them, deflects all her feelings onto the OW who is a convenient focus for blame and possibly in some ways (failing to tell her to fuck the fuck off/distance himself) sets the ow up to take more blame by making her feel he may still be interested and there is a chance which makes her hang about with some sporadic pestering to wind the wife up. That type is even harder to get over than the out and out shameless cheating bastard because he's such a headfuck. And it is all about maintaining the situation he wants - a wife and an exciting girlfriend.

And yes women do it as well but we are talking about men here so...

I disagree that the ow's behaviour is irrelevant and going over it is a sign of 'not moving on.'
In many cases, orms included i think, the ows have feigned friendships with wives. It then is another seperate betrayal to go through. So there is also 'how could she do that to me?' and this doesn't diminish the mans role. There must also be 'why would another woman, a wife, and a mother, do that to me?' it's called sisterhood and this woman knew he was/is married so she is no innocent party.

Perfectly natural to want to see her...but don't do anything about it!

Oh, I meant to add: one one other occasion, 6 months after the affair was discovered, I very unexpectedly bumped into the OW (DH not there). I stood up straight and said Hi and she visibly shrank, her face flushed and she involunatarily took some steps backwards cowering from me, just because of my presence. Not because I was in any way threatening her or anything like that - all I had done was to keep my composure. Made me feel good .

It isn't going over it. It is going over it as causal or pivotal or relevant to the h's affair. I did actually say almost exactly what you said, although I find the concept of "the sisterhood" a bit vomit worthy unrealistic, if you have an actual friendship with someone (not necessarily a constructed one) then obviously you have issue with them but they are still irrelevant and unrelated to the h's affair.

re "the sisterhood", I'm not a wife, but I wouldn't want a married man, so I agree that sisterhood is a big vague, and those who feel it aren't necessarily married mothers you know. I just wouldn't do it because it is destructive.

Mm, i meant here that I too would be obsessed over a woman who intentionally tried to do me wrong. The affair is not sisterly, sisterhood, or anything a 'good woman' would do.

I used the married mother example only because the ow in orms case is.

I agree offred that it is not relevant to the affair as such but it would be important to me to see such...selfishness in one person.

I will always be curious about OW. I want to know what the attraction was and maybe if I met her I would be able to work it out. It's a bit like picking a scab. I haven't met her in person but she emailed me via facebook and I managed to link into pictures of her via her friends unlocked profiles. The email I received was disgusting and really spiteful so probably not a good idea to meet her, I don't want her trying to scratch my eyes out. I don't think I would stand a chance against her, she looks like a prize bareknuckle fighter!

Yes, I agree but not for the sisterhood, basic human decency. I don't feel like I owe other women anything above men and children.

I still do not speak to/avoid an ex friend who was sleeping with my ex and who I cried with and confided in but I don't see it as her fault as far as my ex is concerned. I was really hurt and betrayed by what she did to my confidence and friendship which had long predated the relationship with xp. I was really hurt by that for a long time but now I'm not however I would never trust her or bother with her again because I don't consider her worth my time. I never confronted her though I don't think there would have been any point since our friendship was ended.

Ah that's interesting offred, I'm the opposite. I would go children first, women then men. I dunno why because I do like men! I suppose I expect more of women and that's why I would find a woman's betrayal (even a strangers) in this way v painful.

Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.Silly me she wasn't a sister or a friend so I shouldn't have given her anything more than a passing thought.I stand corrected.

No stargazy I said it won't help your marriage to blame her for your h's affair. It isn't her fault he betrayed you just because she wanted to have an affair with him and took steps towards making that happen. The only thing that is relevant is what you h did to betray your trust. She didn't make him have an affair.

But she is not blaming the ow, none of the woman here have done, but they are saying they are appalled, offended and hurt by them. that is fair enough surely? Just because one person deals you a big hurt doesn't mean other peoples wrong doing gets off scot free.

I think a lot have done through being hurt by them. Orm has with the "mythical significance" and her feelings of hate which she had never had for her husband. Stargazy just did right then with her "she changed her working hours" "I've forgiven him". Having a level of hurt by a stranger which outweighs the level of hurt by the husband is blaming ow in a way.

Why would you feel hurt by a stranger who owes you nothing at all and either knows you only through the affair or peripherally or not at all? It is upsetting but rationally I can't see how it is hurtful.

It is the spouse or partner who you should be offended/appalled/hurt by surely and an imbalance of hurt away from the spouse and towards the OW surely, although understandable if you love the spouse, can only be a deflection of blame/hurt I think.

I cant say anything other than that i was very happy to inform OW that she wasn't the only one (Strange i know) and watch the fallout from that in email form.
I let each and every one of them know what he had been doing, and told them that a.n.other had gonhorrea and they better get checked out.

As for the most significant OW .. she was pig ugly and fat. So i told her that DP was a well known chubby chaser, and she must have reminded him of his mother. Backed up by a picture of MIL. Her reply was 'i deserve that'

Telling them he WAS still sleeping with me seemed to piss them off as well.

threatening to tell their partners was also 'feelgood factor'
This was all in the 'anger period' and saw me through a lot of hellish feelings.

2 months ago i bumped into one of them in the GP surgery. This is where i understand what you mean OP. I had often asked DP what this one was like, tormenting myself to the point i could have reached up and pulled my face off and it wouldn't have hurt any less.

She was short, with a big head. Like a lollipop. :) Dark hair, very scrawny, like a boy. And i waited and i couldn't breathe, i knew it was her.. had only seen vague pics.. when she turned and i saw her face, i could breathe again. Then i was pissed. Why did he choose these ugly women?

And yes now i know they made him feel special at a time i was concentrating on being pregnant, having a baby, bringing up a new baby.

Fuck the OW.. The thing that will live with me for the rest of my days is the total and utter cruelty he doled out to me when he was cheating, treating me like i was nothing, he ruined my pregnancy and i didn't know why..then when i saw them all one after the other i couldn't work out why he was willing to risk losing everything for them all.
But he was cruel when there was no need, except to make me get upset and tell him i didn't want to see him until he knew how to behave, this was ideal for him, because he did that every time he had to meet up with one of them, or take them out for the night. And as i remember it, this was quite often, once i didn't see him for 6 weeks while pregnant with DS. Just as i had gotten over him and started to live again, making arrangements for contact with him for DS after he was born, being asked out on dates and actually thinking of accepting, (i worked with DP at the time so he got all this info drip fed to him) he decided to give us 'another chance' .... arsehole i didn't suspect at all, i thought the shitty treatment was him being worried about having a new baby, the rest of the time i was concentrating on happy pregnancy so ignored his crap or refused to tolerate it.

Yes there was no need for the affair/s.. but he didn't have to trample all over me at a time when i should have been treated like a princess.

Do you know the worst thing? We have actually moved on enough (he thinks, i'm not so sure now, i thought i had but being here for a few days has proven that i'm actually still raw and hurt) to discuss having another baby.

I am FUCKING petrified to do that. I couldn't go through that pain ever ever again, should he take advantage of me being preg and in love, trusting.. I would love another baby... but i just can't do it. Due to have coil removed this year and absolutely dreading that he will ask then as he's marked down when its supposed to be out by, and happily making plans and reassuring me it'll be better this time, he'll treat me like a queen ect ect.
How do you get past that :( That horrible slimy feeling of fear. Not certainly by meeting or seeing OW. though i do understand about the 'mystical proportions' she has gotten to in your mind, totally.
Best thing you can do is get a pic of her no matter what may and fucking glare at it, throw darts, whatever, until you can look at her without pain.

Incidentally DP shagged his OW in the family car and works van. To this day i can not look at either make of vehicle without feeling sick.

Wishing you the best of luck for the next few years cos you're gonna need all that strength and dignity you write with

Offred what you can't seem to comprehend ,and if you've read any of my previous posts there is a big gap time wise between me finding out OW had changed her hours to be around my DH and where we are now.And of course MOST of my hurt and anger was towards him.ORM is exactly two years behind me in recovery terms- to the day.I am empathising with her in that I understand the curiosity re. OW.
Believe me my DH did not get off lightly and simply get forgiven and OW vilified.How simplistic.But unfortunately I'm a 'need to know' sort of girl who could only move on when I've a analysed and understood all the circumstances.That included questions like why that woman ?Why at that time.Life would be a lot simpler if I wasn't like that,but I suspect I'm not the only one.I've even been told on MN because it didn't involve tongues and shagging ie. a fully blown physical affair there was no need to feel betrayed.I reserve my right to disagree with that also.
I liken how they behaved at the time ,and DH agrees,like pair of drunk drivers.Having fun at party, selfishly thinking just one more drink and very low chance of being found out.Then bang.Hitting someone it hurts so hard it takes months to recover and could have been fatal.If a drunk driver hit one of my family they would not be irrelevant to me.So I wil never accept OWs part was totally irrelevant either.

As well as OW I spent a huge amount of energy pondering what part I had played in the build up.Like ORM I was low,and had retreated inwards.Wasn't very supportive towards DH that in no way exonerates him.And he has never expected it to.To quote you directly 'some decent people make mistakes and take full responsibility' That was my DH, he never once trying to shift the blame onto OW.That and looking at the bigger picture around that time- him,me her,the circumstances at work and home etc. helped to make sense of it.

Ps. I also thought a lot about her DH and the impact on him, after all he found the texts.TBH I probably was more concerned about him and how he was doing.Was he feeling the same shock and hurt?Was she talking,really talking to him and doing her best to look at their vulnerabilities and help him to recover?
You could say that's none of my business.You could say I over think things.Probably true.But I felt I owed him a big thank you for bringing things into the open and to a halt.Even though I never did speak to him I hope he's doing OK.Better than OK actually.Good ,strong and happy like I am today.

I'm not making that point though stargazy. The ow does not compare to a drunk driver as far as you are concerned she's a passenger in the car, she's the drunk driver to her husband and your husband is her passenger.

No, she's not the passenger, she's the car!

Anyway... big blow up last night. Not happy about the way he's been behaving in the last week - distant again. He swears he isn't seeing her - probably isn't, but something is on his mind and I don't think it's me. He has an ultimatum - commit to me 100%, start giving me more of himself, talk talk talk! about what happened - or get out. Regardless of the affair I can't be doing with this - never liked it, got no reason to put up with it now. Sent him this in an email - no reply