25 years´ friendship in trouble. A drinking night. What to do with this friendship.

[Miraxx]

Hi all. I've been feeling bad about a long friendship of mine. We've known each other for 25 years and are both now almost 40 with children. Originally we were school mates. Best friends for a great deal of these 25 years.

For the last ten years our friendship has been going down, however, about which I have been very sad and actually even depressed about. We have still kept in almost weekly contact by phone. Our communication has been rather thin in content, though. We've mostly been chatting about everyday stuff and she has not made initiatives on seeing one-on-one for talking or anything. She has three children, all under ten so I have totally understood this.

Still, it has felt very bad as she was my best friend for such a long part of my life. Also, for the last ten years I have been seriously in an ill health and I have been so lonely. After the birth of my only child nine years ago I suddenly developed an acute, nasty gall bladder disease which lasted for three months with a few rides on the ambulance, resulting finally in an emergency operation to remove my gall bladder. After this, there were other more casual problems like infections, but when my baby was 1 years old I got cancer. Another surgery, long story short, I was basically cured, but it was a huge shock for all of us. But, there was more to come. Two years and I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. This is something chronic which I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

In the midst of all this suffering the father of my child and I broke up. I have been taking care of our child alone now for a few years. His father usually takes him on the weekends, though.

It has been very stressful. I have been so depressed and alone and barely could make it sometimes. I had to give up working and apply for disability, on which I have now been on three years.

Anyways, back to this friend of mine. Two weeks ago she called me on Friday night which is unusual as she mostly spends weekends with her family nowadays. She asked if I would like to have a drink or two somewhere outside in the park like in the old times...well, of course I had to say yes :-) as this was something so out of the ordinary and perhaps a chance to connect with her, at least a little bit, again.

Although I must say I have not been so keen on drinking with her for many years, because I have felt I could not trust her anymore, not so much anyway. This is because ten years ago I told her a super confidential thing about my affair with person X. Later she told me that she had revealed to her father (whom I know, too) that I am having an affair with someone he might know. After this I couldn't trust her anymore. Not as much I used to, anyway.

It was a fun night for both of us. She seemingly made effort to establish a connection: she kept on flattering me, she said I still was one of her best friends, it would be nice to see more often and so on. She said she had to make some distance between us during my years of illness and divorce because she could not afford to get dragged into that, she had to keep her own things going on.

Sorry this is a long story even though I'm leaving out so much. Anyway, during the night she asked me if I was having any romance or such in the air. I had my guards on but i did reveal that I have been dreaming about a guy Y whom she knows and with whom I have been in contact with.

The next day I started worrying about what I had told her about Y. The chances were that she would be blabbering about my crush on this guy for our common circle of acquaintances (for her, friends, for me, acquaintances). So I sent her an SMS asking for her not to talk about that and that I have felt so betrayed that ten years ago she went on and revealed my affair to someone.

Well, she replied that she does not remember telling about my affair to anyone. I replied that it was her father and she had told me this herself back then. She replied that she cannot recall anything like this, and she feels we had a fun evening yesterday night; and she wishes next time we would get back with a more positive outlook.

Now there has been a silence of two weeks.

WHile I feel it was nice to talk to her and see her, I have so many doubts about our friendship. After all these horrible years, I do not want friends who, in my time of need, distance themselves from me. And, what's more, when things are better for me, try to come back. I do not need friends who I can't trust to keep my strictly confidential things, either. And thirdly, I would really appreaciate that if I confront my friend about somthing she did, she would make an apology if anything - not deny everything and shut down contacts with me because "I was being so negative".

Any thoughts? I'm sorry this text is so long.

I think you need to try to start being less anxious and try to cultivate more friends.

You speak to your friend weekly but are worried that the friendship isn't as strong as it used to be - with three kids that's quite an achievement, I have friends that I would deem to be close that I don't catch up with for several months, we both have busy lives.

She perhaps does not remember something she said 10 years ago - I know I wouldn't necessarily remember and does not feel that she needs to apologise for anything.

I would let it lie for a while - I think both you and your friend need some space from each other and that you are looking for more than she is able to give. To be honest I find it kind of sad that you both sat on a park bench getting drunk I would have thought that a trip to the movies or the pub would be more enjoyable.

Do you have other friends? It might be an idea to widen your social circle - there may be groups for fellow MS sufferers that you could join.

Thank you for your reply.

Actually I have started to do just that, getting to know new people and hopefully getting some new friends and reconnect with some old ones. It's just a slow process and there are many dead alleys, so to speak. I have found a nice lady friend from the ms circles who I see regularly now and I attend the ms meetings in the local chapter.

During my ten years of illness and bitter divorce, it was so hard to maintain friendships or any social contacts basically. I was so devastated. I also found out that so many healthy people don't understand or don't want to be involved with (serious) illnesses, or at least don't know how to. I think many people around me have been so shocked that they don't want to have anything to do with me, unfortunately.

I just think my old friend here should have asked me details of what she could not remember but I could and then make an apology if appreopriate. Her untrustworthiness in this issue had a big impact on our friendship from my part and it still goes on.

You sound very low about things, understandably, but she probably doesnt remember 10 years ago and it is a long time ago so probably best just left, I dont think you can execpt an apology.

What you do need to do though is move on and gain some new friends, then you can place this friendship in the proper place, you were best friends for many years but both of your lives have moved on so even though its nice to catch up etc you have both evolved into new areas of your lives.

Oh yes, meant to add, you find out your real friends during terrible times. I would leave the past and start making yourself some new friends. Hope it all works out for you x

I am sorry you have such a tough few years and that you feel so anxious about this.

Your friend sounds manipulative, sly and selfish. I have friends with loose lips (which I hate) but she seems more than this...like she wanted to get info out of you. Why? To make herself feel better/feel superior? Simply to get gossip?

That said, you handled this badly. Texting her afterwards about her blathering about the affair... Why by text? You should have left it at 'Hi XX, please don't mention Y to anyone at all' OR even better called her. To put an accusation like that in a text, especially after a nice evening, is ill advised - no matter the truth no-one is going to respond well to that are they?

Btw did you mean you sat and got drunk in a park?! That to me is a kind of metaphor that this friendship is stuck firmly in the past - firstly stuck in an immature/unhealthy dynamic and secondly it is in the past ie over.

I think you need to work on self esteem and better friendships.

One of the reasons we have kept in contact, even shallow, pretty often is that I am the godmother of her eldest child. Mind you, this child was born eleven years ago, right before our friendship started its slide. Also, she is the godmother of my only child, who is now nine years old.

We live near each other and we both really enjoyed the beer in the park -option, we both thought it was fun and cost-effective ;-)

You are right that the texting thing was a bit awkward and rude. I should have been more diplomatic. On the other hand, why should I always have to be the perfect one? After all, she was the one, albeit ten years ago, that knowingly broke the confidentiality, though she doesn't seem to remember.

I had the chance to take the subject up face to face on the drinking night actually, because thatat night she mentioned about the X affair thing, telling me that "she has never told this to anyone". Yeah, right, I thought in my mind. But I didn't say anything. I was slightly drunk and I didn't want to ruin the fun evening. That would have been the worst option.

Perhaps she has memory problems due to her frequent drinking. She really thinks herself as trustworthy, it's just that during those frequent alcohol-filled nights be it at home or elsewhere she perhaps is not so trustworthy after all. She just doesn't remember it.

Hi OP
I'm sorry you have had such a lot to cope with both emotionally and physically. As I'm sure you are aware when we are happy and fulfilled we obsess less over friends and problems and the past. So many bad things have happened in your life you have had to process and deal with all of these and its not easy.

This friend doesn't seem the sort of friend you need.. neither close and confidential nor light hearted and likely to introduce you to a new crowd.
She is not going to admit to breaking your confidence,and I wouldn't trust her again.

Leave her behind in an acquaintance role and don't get involved with trying to work out the past..it won't work because you are fundamentally different.

Continue with your new friendships and go with net working and being friendly in genereal, rather than intense close friendships.
Good luck x

Her last message to me was: "Why do you always have to be so negative. I think we had a nice evening together. I can't recall anything like what you said. Let's hear (from each other) later with something more positive." (I'm not a native English speaker, forgive me the errors)

My last message to her was: "I do remember that you told me you had told your father about my affair. This is an issue that has been bothering me for ten years now. So you too please try to live with me telling it to you."

I could be ok with this if we discussed it together and made peace. But she is the kind of person that doesn't want to talk things over. I know, I have tried this before...with not much success.

I love confidentiality but even for me this is too much... if she told her father, then she betrayed your confidence and you know that... so why bring it up? You can't trust her in the way you would like and shouldn't tell her anymore about your current crush, play it down but don't worry about it.. you can't control her.

perhaps its time to let this friendship fizzle out a bit and focus on finding new friends.

I dont understand your last text sorry.

But holding a grudge for 10 years makes it sound like you are being unreasonable. It is too long ago to dredge up now.

You sound quite needy if you expect this level of contact from a friend with 3 DCs.

I think the main reason she told someone my secret was because she didn't approve of the affair I was having. As far as I have noticed this is her way to go whenever she does't approve of something, be it a secret or not. She has told me some things like this concerning her other friends, too. She feels she has no reason to be ashamed telling these secrets, ´cause these friends of her deserve it for doing the wrong thing.

For ten years, I did just that what you are advising me to do. I kept quiet and rarely spoke a word about my most secret issues / love life. I didn't go out drinking with her, because that would have put down my defences; as it did now concerning Y.

I almost feel she intended to get me drunk so that she would here some info and be able to gossip around . Even though it hurts me so much to think about it in this way. I wouldn't wanna think about it like this - she has been my best friend for ages.

Why is it that some people don't want to just sit down and talk things over? Chances are that this will ruin our long friendship.

Miraxx your secret was clearly very important to you and it is disappointing that 10 years ago she didn't keep it.

If however a friend of mine got drunk and started accusing me of stuff that happened 10 years ago I wouldn't be best pleased as I would feel its somewhat weird to be bottling all that up for such a long time and I wouldn't want to spend time with her.

Why don't you give each other some time to breathe. If you want to remain friends with her I would suggest that you try to detach somewhat and have outings that don't involve alcohol as it doesn't seem to work well for either of you.

Yes I agree it was not a good thing to keep the anger inside me for ten years. It was just that when she told me about this, the situation was something I didn't want to spoil. My first child, her godchild, was about to be born and I was so busy, and as mentioned, the fresh godmother of her daughter, too.

I have been pretty introvert as a person. She, on the other hand, has enjoyed the spotlight and attention, kind of the narcissistic type. I think I used to be just so familiar with these type of persons that being the less important one was just so natural. If I would confront her, and I have done this a few times, I'm not a complete "nerd", she would instantly slash back at me. She does not take criticism as it is and work on it calmly.

Our interaction has mostly circled around her needs. But she has never realized this, it's something automatic to her. We go to her house, hang around there, I have met all her relatives...for 20 years. Now that I have had problems with walking and commuting from home, mind you, it has been a problem for her... Cause I can't go there anymore. Lately she has been offering rides with her car to come to their place, so I guess the issue has been settled so far.

You both sound very different.. she is extroverted and doesn't dwell on things, doesn't keep secrets if she doesn't want to and doesn't want to be too involved with needy people.

You are more introverted, value confidences and expect the same in return and need a friend to be quite committed and involved.. or at least not just all take from you. You also do dwell on things and don't forgive if someone has betrayed you.

Too different in your expectations for this to work.. and crucially you don't trust her. It's not your fault, she doesn't sound very nice or a very good friend. Sorry x

Does anyone has experience with narcissism? Does my friends reaction sound familiar to you?

What bothers me with this now is just her reaction. She just denies that she did anything wrong and then does not want to discuss it anymore. She wants to get back to me as soon as I have a more positive attitude.

And it's not like it was ME who committed a crime! It was her who leaked my personal secrets. I'm pretty sure she remembers that, because at the time it was a conscious choice from her to tell.

She is in fact saying, if you want me to be your friend, you´d better agree that I will be telling your stuff to others. It's so rude because with multiple sclerosis now I have limited mobility and being a single mum very limited life in general.

Maybe I should start another thread on narcissism and friendships.

Are you having any psychological help, OP? You have had a lot to cope with in terms of your poor health, and that would make anyone miserable. But you are coming across as inclined to blame your misery on everyone else and expect far more from people than they are willing or able to give. I think you might benefit from some support and counselling so you can let go of old grudges and make some new friends.

Perhaps I came out a bit wrong. For someone to leak my secrets and not apologize is in my eyes rude in any case, regardless of my personal life situation, that is.

In this case, the fact that my friend knows my miserable life situation and that I have limited opportunities for befriending new people, makes her attitude even more rude.

I agree on trying to meet new people, though. I don´t like her attitude, never have. Bet she´ll miss a good "servant".

Miraxx, you sound very needy and me, me, me. Presumably while all this has been going on for you, she has had her own life to lead. She has her own children, her own marriage, and her own problems to deal with.

You seem to be expecting your friend to shoulder not only her own issues, but yours too.

Forget about the secret breaking ten years ago. She told one person, her father. She didn't gossip about you at the school gates or send an email to multiple friends about you.

You must be very proud to be such a perfect friend yourself, but not many of us can match your high standard, sorry.

mirax I don't think your friend sounds narcissistic. She just sounds like someone who can't recall something from ten years ago. You've gone from describing her as your best friend for many years to someone whose a narcissisist and only wants you as a servant.

You seem to be pinning everything onto this woman and amplifying all the negative things. She must be a reasonably good friend if you've maintained weekly contact. From her point of view, she tried to have a sort of fresh start and spend a girlie night together and then the next day gets an angry text about something that happened 10 years ago.

Perhaps you guys are just at different places and either aren't really friends anymore or you just need to accept a more superficial level of friendship?

Also, some people really disapprove of affairs. While I'm not one of them, your friend may have been - and she might be narked that you don't seem to have acknowledged either at the time or now that having affairs is something that some people consider morally wrong. Of course, she may well have put it out of her mind over 10 years, but to find you still not only banging on about it but blaming her for disapproving might well have made her less inclined to retain a close friendship with you.

Thank you all for your input.

As I told you she has been my good friend for most of my adult life, even best friend. Though I don't consider myself ever having a best friend as such - a soul companion. But perhaps I do have such high standards that few people can live up to them, that is possible...My favourite theory is that I'm an asperger wierdo for whom there exists no soul companions in this life.

I use Mumsnet for ventilation here. Aside from being my friend, she has always been rather self-conscious and selfish - and I, on the contrary, have suffered from low self-esteem and have always suppressed my own needs and wants, because that's what I have always done. Also, I admit to being a critical - which I think is a good quality, too - and even a negative person too often - of which I am not proud of.

Maybe I should change my attitude here to being more shallow and closer to a "normal" person. What would a normal person do regarding this breaking of trust? You as normal persons could answer that question for me

One thing a "normal", shallow person perhaps would do would be to do something equivalent. Perhaps I've been overtly nice regarding her life and the things she doesn't like to talk about. I've been a too perfect friend. Perhaps next time I meet her father at my god daughter's birthday party, I could start going on about how well my friend's relationship has turned out despite the fact that she slept with him the same night she met him, drunk as hell. After all, this is what we girls always are warned about.

Miraxx, all I can say, is thank fuck you aren't my 'friend'. You quite frankly come across as being quite weird and odd.

Kudos to your friend for putting up with you for so long. You sound like a self-pitying whinger.

'She said she had to make some distance between us during my years of illness and divorce because she could not afford to get dragged into that, she had to keep her own things going on.'

She hasn't been a great friend to you over the years. Why wasn't she there during your illnesses? This is more telling than the blabbing about the affair actually.

I don't blame you for being upset with her but she clearly doesn't put the same weight on the friendship.

Just put it behind you and move on, I'd say. You can always make an excuse next time she wants to meet up.

Mirandaa, I wonder what your problem is. Your input in this thread was hostile from the start.