25 years´ friendship in trouble. A drinking night. What to do with this friendship.

[Miraxx]

Hi all. I've been feeling bad about a long friendship of mine. We've known each other for 25 years and are both now almost 40 with children. Originally we were school mates. Best friends for a great deal of these 25 years.

For the last ten years our friendship has been going down, however, about which I have been very sad and actually even depressed about. We have still kept in almost weekly contact by phone. Our communication has been rather thin in content, though. We've mostly been chatting about everyday stuff and she has not made initiatives on seeing one-on-one for talking or anything. She has three children, all under ten so I have totally understood this.

Still, it has felt very bad as she was my best friend for such a long part of my life. Also, for the last ten years I have been seriously in an ill health and I have been so lonely. After the birth of my only child nine years ago I suddenly developed an acute, nasty gall bladder disease which lasted for three months with a few rides on the ambulance, resulting finally in an emergency operation to remove my gall bladder. After this, there were other more casual problems like infections, but when my baby was 1 years old I got cancer. Another surgery, long story short, I was basically cured, but it was a huge shock for all of us. But, there was more to come. Two years and I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. This is something chronic which I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

In the midst of all this suffering the father of my child and I broke up. I have been taking care of our child alone now for a few years. His father usually takes him on the weekends, though.

It has been very stressful. I have been so depressed and alone and barely could make it sometimes. I had to give up working and apply for disability, on which I have now been on three years.

Anyways, back to this friend of mine. Two weeks ago she called me on Friday night which is unusual as she mostly spends weekends with her family nowadays. She asked if I would like to have a drink or two somewhere outside in the park like in the old times...well, of course I had to say yes :-) as this was something so out of the ordinary and perhaps a chance to connect with her, at least a little bit, again.

Although I must say I have not been so keen on drinking with her for many years, because I have felt I could not trust her anymore, not so much anyway. This is because ten years ago I told her a super confidential thing about my affair with person X. Later she told me that she had revealed to her father (whom I know, too) that I am having an affair with someone he might know. After this I couldn't trust her anymore. Not as much I used to, anyway.

It was a fun night for both of us. She seemingly made effort to establish a connection: she kept on flattering me, she said I still was one of her best friends, it would be nice to see more often and so on. She said she had to make some distance between us during my years of illness and divorce because she could not afford to get dragged into that, she had to keep her own things going on.

Sorry this is a long story even though I'm leaving out so much. Anyway, during the night she asked me if I was having any romance or such in the air. I had my guards on but i did reveal that I have been dreaming about a guy Y whom she knows and with whom I have been in contact with.

The next day I started worrying about what I had told her about Y. The chances were that she would be blabbering about my crush on this guy for our common circle of acquaintances (for her, friends, for me, acquaintances). So I sent her an SMS asking for her not to talk about that and that I have felt so betrayed that ten years ago she went on and revealed my affair to someone.

Well, she replied that she does not remember telling about my affair to anyone. I replied that it was her father and she had told me this herself back then. She replied that she cannot recall anything like this, and she feels we had a fun evening yesterday night; and she wishes next time we would get back with a more positive outlook.

Now there has been a silence of two weeks.

WHile I feel it was nice to talk to her and see her, I have so many doubts about our friendship. After all these horrible years, I do not want friends who, in my time of need, distance themselves from me. And, what's more, when things are better for me, try to come back. I do not need friends who I can't trust to keep my strictly confidential things, either. And thirdly, I would really appreaciate that if I confront my friend about somthing she did, she would make an apology if anything - not deny everything and shut down contacts with me because "I was being so negative".

Any thoughts? I'm sorry this text is so long.

And you have sounded nutty and needy from the start.

Miraxx I don't think you are a perfect friend either because you cannot accepther the way she is.. she really doesn't want to be best friends and finds it all too much with her own life, and the intensity that you expect from her.

She is not perfect, she let you down but she is closer to her father than to you and maybe she had her own reasons to tell him. You can't control her,and then get revenge when she doesn't live up to your expectations.

Decide whether you want to see her again, if so, be more positive, friendly and do some fun things together without all the angst..If not, move on.

Pretty harsh responses Mirandaa. The OP's had been some difficult times. Don't see any need to attack her.

been through some difficult times, I meant to say.

And Melindaa, even

Must engage brain today!

Wow Miraxx. I had sympathy for you up until the last post. You should have raised this issue years ago. To do so now is frankly odd. You certainly are not a perfect friend - your way of talking about her for starters is just plain rude. I can only imagine the pressure you place on your friends- have you ever told any of them you are looking for a "soul companion"? That is an incredible thing to ask of a partner let alone a friend.

I don't think that either of you are best served in this 'friendship'. You obviously have very different expectations and outlooks. Walk away.

I don't think acceptance has much to do with this actually. I don't accept her actions (breaking of confidence, "not remembering" this when confronted). That is a different thing than accepting the person herself. I mean, you can love your brother and support him, but you would still have problems with the act of him committing a manslaughter and lying about in court.

For me, the essence of friendship is confidence. You are right in saying that we seem to have a different meaning and weight attached to friendship. And it could be I´d better find new friendships. Believe me, I am trying.

I don't really understand the critique of me being needy. Could you specify in which sentence I seem needy? I do believe no man is an island and according to my world view we all need people around us. We need people especially if we fall ill or disabled or are faced with another catastrophe in our lives (home burn, accident for example). Most of us would need emotional and social support and friendship in those kind of situations, don't you agree?

Friends who are happy to do so and have the time may provide comfort in hard times .. but its a relationship and a two way street so people choose whether to be friends or not, and on what level.

You have to work at making friends Miraxx.. what can you offer your new friends? What have you to give and how will they enjoy your company?

Sometimes I really do have thoughts about me having many traits of an asperger person. I believe aspies´concept of friendship is something much more loyal and deep than neurotypical persons´.

I am well capable of "ordinary" , more shallow social interactions, however. It´s just those don´t mean anything to me really. I need persons close to me. Doesn´t everyone need.

I know I should get a partner. But believe me it ain´t easy with such an ill health. Who the heck would want to commit himself to a person with an incurable, progressing illness. I want to be satisfied with myself as I am, my son, school acquaintances, my friends, my relatives. That´s the only way to go.

The problem with something done 10 years ago is that she will do it again. If she has no regrets, she definitely will. So it is not something that can be considered "bygones". I can't trust her. The fact that she has no remorse shows me she still can´t be trusted. THAT is the point.

Come on now. You cannot seriously put this on par with manslaughter and perjury! If you said that this had happened six months ago or even a year. But ten years is just too long. I can well imagine that she said she didn't remember in the hope that you wouldn't dredge it up.

I can understand why you were upset at the time but I do think it's a bit to place such a huge emphasis on trust when you admitted to having an affair. If my friend was happy to break the trust of a marriage I wouldn't think that it would be such an earth shattering thing for me to confide in my father.

You can't trust her to the level you would like, no...lifelong confidentiality, no. Her even willing to discuss it, no.
You know that now.

Well, I did put up with it for ten years. I did not say a word to her about it. I tried to live on as if nothing had happened and get over it. I thought my feeling of mistrust would go away. But it hasn't.

We could have talked it over now. But she doesn't want to.

I guess I have to accept that humanity is overrated. Even best friends can't be trusted. I think I am too sensitive for this life.

mirax I really think you need to get some perspective on this. "humanity is overrated" is frankly a ridiculous statement to make in regards to one person not living up to your, as you've said yourself, incredibly high standards.

You've had a lot happen in the last ten years, which no doubt have knocked your confidence and look to external sources for support. That's understandable but not healthy. You seem to be pinning everything on this poor woman moulding herself into what you expect her to be. You talk about making new friends - what do expect of them and what do you give to the friendship? No one person can provide all you need and most people have friends that fulfill certain aspects, friends who are great fun, friends who are a shoulder to cry on, friends who are good to just hang out with. If you continue being so idealistic about how people should treat you (but not vice versa) then you will continue to be disappointed.

In this thread I have tried to have a focus. That focus is on what my friend did and said as well as general venting. The thread has not been about our friendship in general.

I agree on what you said that it is good to have several friends and no one person can fulfill all needs and expecations. I really do have to work on meeting new people and getting new friends.

As for the newer friends I have met, I expect nothing from them actually. Maybe a kind word if I'm having an exacerbation, that´s all. For my good, longtime friend it is different. I do expect a lot more from her. Some interest in our affairs, some compassion, contact, maybe even some help with child care if appropriate (again, she is they are the godparents of my son and live nearby). Is that much? I don´t thinks so.

I myself am a very dedicated person and friend. I have always tried to find time for her things and worries - although I must say that she and her family have been very lucky in life. I was visited the hospital when each of her children were born. I´ve borrowed my things, my dresses, I´ve showered her and her children with gifts. Just because I wanted to, I haven't expected anything in return. I've helped them in their garden work. I've shared with her personal things that I have told no one else (and expected confidentiality of course). I am very loyal and she knows that. I have tried to forget our quarrels and move on. We have told each other our health worries. I have kept her secrets. We both have lived our lives and met new people, but, as I said, still had almost weekly contact, calling when waiting for the bus or other breaks in the busy schedule for example.

Ah, so your friendship is based on helping out, keeping secrets and confidences and having concern and help back.

This isn't working is it Miraxx.. you need to have a rethink. You aren't really able to help her out a lot and she may not need it, and she has said she can't help you out or keep all your confidences.

Find a new way to connect, having fun, finding out new things, going to the cinema etc.

Don't value yourself and your friend on how much you can do for each other...just offer yourself and your company.
Good luck x

Thank you.

It sounds like you have a problem here, I'm sorry to say, not your friend. It seems you are becoming too concerned with something that happened 10 years ago. If you had an affair, she may have felt uncomfortable with it (morally) and felt she needed to talk to someone about her reaction. She sounds like she has been a good friend, but you really can't expect her to be your parent. I'm glad you are getting treatment, this should help you put things in perspective and move on.

I agree with whoever said that the wider the circle of friends the better, I have found out myself that not everyone is willing or able to help if you are having a crisis, some people may be busy/exhausted/having their own issues/have three very small children/just doesn't respond in the way that you expect. But, if you have a few friends, the chances of finding a sympathetic ear or someone to have a laugh with are much higher.

If someone texted me about an issue ten years ago, I'm afraid, whatever their problems, I would not want to continue the friendship. Even if I had made a mistake, I wouldn't want to be friends with a person who bore grudges and didn't see the good in me. Good friends are kind, forgiving and see the positive side of each other, so for example, I had a hard year a couple of years ago and was disappointed that a couple of friends showed little interest, but in fairness they all have very little children and their own health/marriage issues. I don't think they were neglectful, they gave what they had to give and perhaps, at another time in the future, we'll live near each other or be in touch more.

I think it's a shame if you are cutting off from this woman who has been your friend for 25 years, especially if you have been calling/called weekly, that's pretty close when you all have little ones/other issues. But, you sound very resentful and not like you like her at all. She may have been inviting you round with her family and friends to make you feel included (as you are on your own) yet you see this as her being demanding!

I think you may well be straining the friendship to breaking point, so time to think about whether that issue 10 years ago is really a deal breaker. I think you'd be crazy to ruin a lasting friendship over that, especially as you were the one having the affair and she may well have had good reason to discuss it (which you haven't gone into here).

Miraxx, having read your other thread on your illness, I think there's every reason to think you are feeling angry and down about your very real health situation, and probably quite depressed. This will colour how you see your friend a great deal and I wouldn't personally make any dramatic decisions whilst you feel like this. You mention you are having cognitive therapy, I also think you could do with an outlet for all this frustration- can you talk with your therapist about this or is it very solution focused? If not, support groups for people going through similar things may work well for you, because you are right, unless you have been through it it is so hard to understand. Good luck.

Ok. I will shed a little light on those last ten years. Those years have not been good in our friendship. I'm sure my friend would agree on this.

From my point of view, it has been the unpleasant discovery that she liked me joyful and laughing, but when there came bad times, she drifted away. Ok, we have stayed in frequent contact, that's true, so she hasn't abandoned me or anything. But she stopped wanting to see me, only called me every now and then - as opposed to weekly, it usually was me who called, and those phone conversations started to be really thin in content. She did not want to hear more about my health issues, she kept it short and casual.

Once she told me: "I miss our friendship that was filled with laughter, fun and joy." Well yes, I too missed my life as it was, and which now was filled with tears, confusion, fear and tragedy.

As I am venting about this friendship here I think I finally realize that my idea of "sacred friendship forever" has been utopic and so over-demanding. It is not from real life. I have been too idealistic. At the same time I HAVE tried to live up to being a such a good friend myself. Probably I have not succeeded, but I have tried.

I guess I have had the same kind of unrealistic expectations towards friendship that women in general tend to have towards marriage and their husbands. No one person can fill all those wishes and demands for eternal companionship.

It's very hard to maintain a friendship with someone demanding and whiny when you have three small children and a life of your own. She is not your mother or your carer and it has never been her job to look after you when she has her own children to take care of.

While your illness is no one's fault, it does not entitle you to insist on being someone else's first priority; if you need help and support you need to ask for it from professionals if there is no family member nearby. It's too much to ask of a friend that s/he becomes your carer.

Perhaps she wants to gloss over the time you had an affair as it disappointed/upset her and she felt she knew less about you. From her point of view she could post on here about her moralising friend who had an affair but can't forgive her fir telling her dad. You have yourself on a pedestal for perfect friendship but to be honest if my closest friends expected deep and meaningful chats every week and a dissection of the previous decade I'd find them annoying and whiny.
You have been dealt a horrible hand and the friendship isn't going to solve that but it could still work of you lowered your expectations. I hope you can find friendships elsewhere and relieve the pressure in yourself and others.

I'm sorry. I don't consider her as my carer. Nor should I be her first priority. Where did you get those ideas from?

While we talk we often discuss her work issues. I like that and I am interested in many things in general, so I am always open to any kind of discussions. I am not put off by worries, sickness or death. I would make a good support person for someone going through tough times, I think. At least hope. Nowadays my friend often consults me on some doctor and medication issues, because I have become the professional patient.

Mumsyblouse, you are right in saying that I wouldn't want to strain this long friendship to a break. It is worth more than that. I reálize now I should have taken into account the time frame of 10 years and that this is generally considered bygones.

I am very sad about my crumbling health, of which I write more in another thread. It is no-one's fault. Ms is such a tragic disease in that it often strikes people in the prime of their lives. I am angry to this disease. I know my friend is angry too. She says it's just shit what happened to me. And I agree 100%.

OP it's perhaps time to call a day on thus so called friendship. I suspect that all that's holding you together is nostalgia.

I speak from experience here. I had a friend of roughly 25 years abs after a pretty traumatic break-up she was nowhere to be seen. I just cut ties. Why be friends with someone who isn't there in your hour of need? You deserve much better.