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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

OCD or being an arse?

76 replies

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 13:43

The thread about people's perceptions of OCD has got me thinking about DH's incredibly annoying behaviour. He does have OCD (with checking and anxiety over really silly things) but it's not so bad that it takes over his life, iykwim.

I find the most annoying thing about living with DH is that becomes incredibly controlling because of the OCD. Actually, I'm not sure how much is him just being an arse and how much is the OCD. I think the need to control comes from the OCD, but the really annoying stuff really is him being a total arse.

He insists that I do things but then stands over me/nags or questions me relentlessly afterwards to make sure I do it his way/on his timetable. For example, he insists that I talk to tradesmen/estate agents/the council/all sorts of other people on the phone sometimes (because he's decided on his own version of a 'fair' division of labour, about which I will moan say more in a minute) but then complains that I approach it in the same way he would. Whatever I do is the wrong way. And he questions me on every aspect of the conversation; I'm almost expected to recite the whole thing back to him. I've lost count of the number of times I've said, 'if you want to know exactly what they say/it done the way you'd do it, you have to speak to them yourself'.

I get really pissed off when he decides the timetable for things too, and often respond by leaving it much longer than I would have just because I refuse to be controlled in that way. Im aware that's a bit passive aggressive, but saying 'no' never gets me anywhere as he refuses to accept that I might have other things to do.

For example, last week I was working on important stuff that I needed to concentrate on. DH was doing some work on our new house (that I didn't ask him to do, he decided it had to be done and it had to be done that day). He phoned me up and told me that I had to phone a tradesman and get him to come round. I was doing something else, so I didn't do it immediately. A little later he phoned to tell me about a problem (he had caused) and I had to go and pick him up. I still hadnt phoned the tradesman, as i wasnt going to do it until id finished my work. Then he spent hours complaining at me and going on about how he was unreasonable asking me to do something when he's doing everything else for the house, etc, etc. He just cannot and will not accept that he doesn't have any right o phone me up and tell me to drop everything and do whatever he's decided needs done at that moment. I would never phone him at work and tell him to drop everything and, say, make a hairdresser appointment for me.

And that brings me to the division of labour stuff. He has this idea of a 'fair' division of labour in his head and he sees it all as a kind of trade off. He will not do anything unless I do something as well. So, as in the previous example, he decided that he was doing work on the house so I had to do something as well. The most annoying thing is that this division of labour does not include all the household tasks, only those 'visible' to DH.

Take a typical day. I will get DS2 up and dressed and myself up and dressed. Then I have to do a nursery/school/work run, where I drop everyone else off and then come back home to do my own (FT) work (I can work at home most days). This means that I leave at the back of 8 and don't get back til after 9, whereas DH gets in to work before 9. I then have to do a work/nursery pick up in the evening (DS1 walks home from school himself), which means I have to stop work about 4.30 and don't get home until about an hour later. Because I'm at home, I do all the sick child care and lots of other household tasks. I also do all the cooking, which is very time consuming (and also comes with doing all the meal planning, the shopping and sticking to a budget that DH won't hyperventilate over). Being made to account for why our weekly shop for a family of 4 was £70 rather than £60 (when we can afford for me to spend double that every week!) drives me mad.

All DH is supposed to do is the washing up, the hoovering, putting the bins out and the washing (and then it's only because he is ridiculous about controlling how things are washed and always complains that I've washed his clothes 'wrong'). He does not always do any of this. I have to wash up at least once a week, often more, because he huffs and puffs about how tired he is (I have an autoimmune condition and fatigue is a major issue; he does not)/complains that I've used too many pans or utensils, etc. I regularly have to do the bins and the washing (even though I then face complaints about it being wrong). Nonetheless, DH will sometimes come in from doing the washing up, sit down next to me on the couch and then tell me to get him a cup of water. It seems that in his head, he has done a task ('for me') so that means I have to do something for him. When I utterly refuse, he acts all hurt and says that he just thought I could do something nice for him.

He almost never does something without expecting a balancing out in me doing something else. This wouldn't be so bad if he actually included all necessary tasks in his accounts, but all the things I do everyday don't seem to count. Not once in the last 3 years has he taken on the cooking while I've been there (no matter how bad I feel). The best he'll suggest is a take away, but then I either have to go out and pick it up or do the washing up, or both.

DH does 'cook' for himself and the kids when I'm away for work. I have to commute (nearly 2 hours each way, door to door) for work once or twice a week (but not all year round). Usually I try to make sure that I leave when everyone else does, and come home in time to make dinner (meaning a lot of time on the train for very little time in my office). One of those days I leave before 7am and don't finish work until 8.30pm and don't get home til after 11pm. This means that DH has to sort the kids out and produce a dinner, and even wash up. I have to either leave some left overs for him to reheat or buy some filled pasta and sauce that he can make himself. the horror! I have to commute because we moved to this part of the country for DH's job. I used to be able to get to work in 10 minutes but then DH got a job and I had to be the one that commutes. (there are advantages to where we live, but still, he doesn't seem to appreciate what I have to sacrifice both at work and at home to do this). In DH's mind though, he has to do all this work looking after the kids so it requires me to do more to balance it out.

The other area of control that really gets to me is our finances. I earn considerably more than DH. My wages are paid into a joint account, and this is where all the rent, bills, childacre and other everyday spending comes from. I set up a joint account like this when DH was unemployed and it was the entire household income, largely because I didn't want to be the sort of person that restricts their partner's access to money. Once DH got a job, however, he elected to have his wages paid into his sole account. He claims this is to make sure we saved as much as possible for a house deposit/renovation costs, etc. He keeps this money in a variety of savings accounts in his name only. I have absolutely no savings in my name because there's never any money left in the joint account at the end of the month for me to save. If it looks like there's too much money in the joint account, DH will transfer some to his accounts and then he'll transfer money into the joint account as and when necessary. If the joint account funds are running low, he'll transfer as little as possible into the account to make sure things are paid. He'll usually transfer a similar amount back into his account after I've been paid again.

This means I have access to very little money and always have to think before buying anything. I can't buy train tickets for work without checking first because there is rarely enough money in the account to cover it. He'll transfer money if I ask him but it's a bit humiliating having to ask. I also hate the feeling that I don't have any money. I was a single parent at university for many years and I never had any money. I had to watch every penny I spent and I still ended up with a big overdraft. As soon as I started working, I started paying off that overdraft and it was all gone before I even set up the joint account. Yet, DH uses the fact that I used to have an overdraft as an excuse for why he needs to remain in control of our money. His OCD means that he compulsively checks his online banking, and he interrogates asks me about everything I've spent money on if he doesn't recognise it. But I don't think it's really an excuse for squirrelling away all the money where I can't get it without asking.

In some ways, it doesn't matter as we're renovating a house right now so all the savings will soon be spent but I do resent not having access to money. I often don't buy things because I know there won't be any money in the joint account and then complains that I don't obsessively check the bank account or ask for some money. I don't really see why I should have to do either of these things.

Having written all that down, it sounds like our relationship is dire. It really isn't as bad as that sounds (I think this is often the problem with posts in relationships). But I guess I'm wanting to know what parts of this are due to DH's OCD (and that I should learn to tolerate better) and which parts are just him being an arse.

It's hard for me to tell because he tends to turn everything around in an argument so that I look like I'm unhinged or something. I am aware that I'm decreasingly tolerant of things DH does, and I end up very angry at him. He then makes it out that because he's calm and I'm not, then I must be the one in the wrong. For example, I find his obsessions with things being 'clean' very difficult to tolerate (not least because the dirty sod leaves used tissues all around the house that I have to clean up).

He almost never listens to me, and he's a bit deaf so he claims he doesn't hear me, so I often end up having to shout. He almost never listens to anything I say unless I shout (and he is not that deaf). It's frustrating because it feels like I either have to give in and do things his way (in which case he never notices that I have compromised) or I have to shout to have my point of view heard (and the, of course, I'm being unreasonable). So I quietly compromise about 90% of everything and then on the 10% of stuff that I think really matters I have to be really stubborn over. Then, of course, I'm unreasonable and always have to have my own way.

For example, he was clearing massive piles of junk (that he'd insisted on holding on to) out of our garage. I was just leaving him to it and not interfering in his decisions. Then he picked up a box and I asked him to just leave that one and I'd look through it later (as i was cooking at the time). But he didn't pay the slightest bit of attention and started going through the box. I hate it when he does looks through my stuff because he is always suspicious and will always find something to be annoyed/disappointed with me about in it. So I asked again and again but he just kept talking over me and ignoring me. Eventually the only way to stop him going through the box (of old paperwork that didn't affect him, but that he'd have insisted on interrogating me about) was to shout and take the box off him. However, that meant that I was clearly in the wrong and a shrieking harpy. But I really don't know what else I was supposed to do when he was so blatently ignoring me.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 04/09/2012 13:44

Arse. Next!

Anniegetyourgun · 04/09/2012 13:47

Seriously, though, does it really matter whether he can help it or not, if he either can't or won't change? The real question is whether you can stand to live with it. Not whether you can justify to an imaginary jury whether you ought to, but whether you, personally, would be happier out of it.

ClippedPhoenix · 04/09/2012 13:49

Yes, OP it certainly sounds like he's a controlling arse to be honest Sad

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 13:57

Well yes. You are all, of course right.

It's just useful to (a) write things down/clarify the actual issues and (b) have people tell me that this kind of behaviour is not normal or healthy.

I just need to figure out how to get him to see that he does need to change. Almost all of our arguments are a result of me reacting against this stuff, but it generally ends with me feeling like I'm in the wrong or, worse, being positioned as the one in the wrong and I feel that's unfair. But arguing doesn't help anything, and just make me feel crap.

OP posts:
ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 14:04

I guess the problem is that some of it is anxiety-based stuff from him, but it takes over everything.

So the bank stuff. We got a joint account so he would have access to money but also because I was fed up with being constantly asked about the bank balance, etc. He couldn't obsessively check the account just in my name, so it was easier for me to just let him do the unnecessary checking himself.

The shifting money about is some sort of obsession with keeping things in order. It's not a deliberate attempt to stop me having access to money, even though it achieves the same result as that would.

He does have good points, obviously, but it is exasperating to live with. MIL says he's the most exasperating person she's ever met (so its not just me).

OP posts:
ClippedPhoenix · 04/09/2012 14:09

Turning things round and not listening are not OCD symptoms but symptoms of someone who is self entitled.

OliveandJim · 04/09/2012 14:12

But surely he was like this when you met, fell in love with him? I understand that with time it gets a drag, but he won't change.
Looks like you mostly have a communications issue though and your DH is unsympathetic to the amount of work, compromise you are doing. Isn't the first option to go together to counseling to learn to communicate better with each other. Also, if someone else points out the amount of juggling and bending backwards you're doing perhaps he'll take notice if it's someone else that mentions it?
or what about making lists, if he is OCD he should like that, write down an entire week, hour by hour of what you do and what he does, and show him at the end of the week. Maybe include the number of times you said things and he didn't pay attention.

lynniep · 04/09/2012 14:14

Wow. thats a mammoth post!

I have an exasperating DH for different but similar reasons if you get my drift, however he isnt even in your DH's ball park. I do recognise a lot of the things you're saying (not the money bit - my DH might be an accountant but he has no clue about money)

What you said about you asking him to do something (leave a box) him ignoring you, then you shouting and therefore being the one 'out of control/shreiking harpy' sounds very familiar. He has driven me to the point of breakdown with his incessant nagging, and then tried to make out I was a danger to my child (only had one at the time)

So yes, he's not going to change. He's stuck in his head much like my DS. His logic is not the same as other peoples and therefore you cannot 'reason' with him in the way you can with 'normal' folk - because its everyone else that is wrong...

If you showed him this post, what would happen do you think? Would it make more sense to him on paper than from the horses mouth? (for me, it doubt it would make much difference, but maybe worth a shot - I tried writing a diary of my day once when DS1 was little to try and illustrate WHAT IT WAS I DID and also of the amount of times I was up with DS1/sat by his bed on the floor etc etc - it didnt register with him at all. I was furious)

CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/09/2012 14:18

Yes arse... Just because someone has a condition that allegedly means they behave in a bizarre or upsetting way, it doesn't mean you have to tolerate it.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt · 04/09/2012 14:18

Jesus.

The MAIN thing which is a huge worry is the money. He is squirreling all his money away and spending all yours.

TBH if I were you I would separate all the finances completely - have a joint account for shared bills but get away from the fact that you pay for everything while he saves his salary. Seriously, for your own sake, you really need to do this.

He sounds a horrible and controlling person. It sounds exhausting.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 14:21

No that bit is being an arse, most definitely. He's also petulant and can be vindictive, which are both arse-like qualities rather than anything justifiable. If we split up, he'd be absolutely dreadful to deal with because of this.

Although he does tend to rationalise his obsessions and compulsions. So he'll rationalise his need to continually check and organise the finances by saying that I don't do it right (because I had an overdraft before I even met him, as did he when he was a student, but that doesn't seem to count). Or he'll decide that his need to spend ages checking things are off/doors are locked before going out or going to bed is entirely reasonable and necessary because sometimes the kettle is not turned off at the plug.

And I think that he, at least on some level, really does believe that because he's calm and not angry then he's being reasonable. It doesn't occur to him that he might be a total nightmare.

He gets health problems that are entirely stress related, and panics himself into being ill. Yet, he seems to do everything he can to make his (and everyone else's) life more stressful. At work he sets himself all these ridiculous tasks and deadlines that he has to meet whatever the consequences (and which usually mean I end up taking on more stuff, and having to neglect my own work/life). Note: these are not real deadlines, he just makes them up. It's almost like he sees life as a videogame and he has to continually be levelling up, and monitoring his levels/organising his tasks to make sure he levels up correctly. However, life isn't like that.

OP posts:
FannyFifer · 04/09/2012 14:22

Controlling arse.

Get a bank account of your own to get your wages paid into, then each pay money into joint to cover bills etc.

Fuck living like that.

OTheMarriedManatee · 04/09/2012 14:24

Arse, I'm afraid. Lots of people with OCD don't feel the need to nitpick, criticise everything and spend your money while saving their own.

MooncupGoddess · 04/09/2012 14:26

Bloody hell - he sounds really awful. What are the good points in your relationship?

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt · 04/09/2012 14:28

Seriously, seriously, seriously get your own bank account.

If you split up you will be fucked, and he will have money all over the place.

He sounds like a nasty controlling fucker. Nowt to do with the OCD.

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 14:28

What Annie said.

A good start would be to each get your wages paid into your own account, work out the bills etc and each transfer half that amount into the joint account every month. He can't then take money out of the joint account to put into his name as there is just enough to pay bills etc each month.

Get a load of post-it notes and if you ask him to do something like leave the box for you to sort, or whatever, and he 'doesn't hear you', write it on a post-it note and stick it under his nose. (Not literally under his nose! On the box or wherever).

It's interesting that his 'OCD' works in his favour mostly by the sounds of it.

He sounds bloody exhausting and highly entitled. What are his good points?

SundaysGirl · 04/09/2012 14:34

So basically money wise you all live off what YOU earn and he puts all he earns away for himself, where you have no access to it without feeling humiliated?

That does not sound like OCD it sounds like selfish and unreasonable behvaiour. Why can't you get your own bank account again and then work out with him what a fair proportion of each of your wages is towards bills (if you earn considerably more than him then maybe you put more into the joint pot) and have all your DD's come out of the joint account and an agreement that the rest of the money is for whatever you each want to spend it on? If you both want something extra for the family such as a holiday then you both put the extra money into the account. And then keep your online banking details to yourself!!

mistlethrush · 04/09/2012 14:38

I would write it all down as someone's already suggested - but have a chart where you can fill in one side and he can fill in the other, including how long it takes. You could do both yours and his as you're around all the time. Perhaps seeing it as an actual graph would help him see that he is being unreasonable with the tasks?

I would also work out what your 'normal' outgoings are a month and tell him that you're going to set up your own account to be paid into and put in a direct debit for half of the remainder each month and that he needs to put the rest in. So what if his 'savings' get eaten into a lot quicker - they shouldn't be 'his' savings in the first place, they should be joint savings. This would mean that you would be able to buy eg train tickets without worrying.

In terms of ignoring you, I would start actually handing him notes - re the box for instance, I would have got some scrap paper, written on 'leave for Arbitrary to sort out', closed the box and selotaped that on top. It saves you having to shout, it gives a very clear indication of your requirements and intentions.

For instances where he wants you to do something now, you will need to save a message you can send on your mobile which says 'I'm sorry I can't do that just at the moment as I'm busy doing something else, I will let you know when I can do it' or words to that effect - again its in writing, that might help?

But, yes, he's an arse. Sorry!

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 14:45

Oliveandjim: he probably was like this when we met, but I didn't really notice at first and was probably far too tolerant of things. Over time, I just don't have as much patience. And I'm also exhausted and in pain a lot of the time, which reduces my ability to put up with ridiculous nonsense.

Making a list might be useful, but I'm not sure I want to encourage some sort of time allocation survey of household tasks that I'll have to fill in forever.

Lynniep: I don't know how he'd react if I showed him this post. I think he'd simply be angry that I posted it, rather than anything else.

We have tried to go to counselling. We had the initial session with relate who took our money and then never gave us an appointment for any more sessions. I'm not sure it would have helped though. The counsellor was mostly obsessed with our family backgrounds and childhoods. Mine is incredibly crap (alcoholic and narcissitic father, narcissistic mother -a great combo, I'm sure you'll agree - who had a nasty, bitter, divorce, dreadful grandparents, just loads of stuff) so it all ended up sidetracked with that and went nowhere near the real problems in our relationship.

The finances is very annoying and reading back I can see that it sounds horrific. It's not as bad as it sounds insofar as he's not doing it to control me; he's doing it because he thinks he has to control the money.

I could set up my own account whenever I liked and have my wages paid in there. And I would do so if I was properly worried rather than annoyed about the situation. I do earn a lot more than him and I could easily live off my wages alone. As I said, the money in his savings is all going on the new house (so he's not keeping it from me to do anything exciting with it). Once we've done that, I'm going to insist that he has his wages paid into the joint account too, and whatever remains at the end of the month will be split between our own savings accounts. I think I can easily win the 'fairness' argument there, although I suspect he's now going to become uttly obsessed with overpaying the new mortgage so there won't be much left for proper savings. I plan to point out that we need supplies of ready cash in savings as well as overpayments on the mortgage. The house itself is owned 50-50 (tenants in common), so there's no worry there.

I'm loathe to get my own current account again as I'll just be subjected to questioning and demands that I check it all the time. DH does not think that checking your online banking multiple times a day is a bit over the top; he thinks that's what all reasonable and rational people do. Being nagged over someone else's silly obsession is not fun at all.

OP posts:
AlmostAGoldHipster · 04/09/2012 14:46

OP, I want to give you a big hug and then a bit of a shake because your life sounds like Hell and this man is not normal, by any stretch of the imagination.

Please get your finances more under your control. Now.

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 14:59

OP now that you have said what your family background is I can see why you think you have to put up with this.

This man is not normal, and it is nothing to do with OCD. You do not have to live like this, and I think if you went and got some counselling for yourself from a counsellor who understands narcissistic behaviour and its effect on its victims, you would find that you don't actually have to tie yourself up in knots to pander to his totally unreasonable demands and behaviour.

You have been trained very well by your family to think that this is how you have to live your life. You actually don't.

He sounds extremely mentally disordered, and you cannot fix him. Even his mother says so! The petulance and vindictiveness is all part of this, and I wonder how he treats your DC?

I escaped from someone like this five years ago, and needed psychotherapy to get some recovery from it. I also had narc parents, and thought this was normal. It's not.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 15:01

I don't think I will be fucked financially if we split up. I don't really care about the savings (which will all be spent in the next couple of months) and my old current account does still exist. It's got about £5 in it. I'd just change where my wages were paid into and go on from there. DH would struggle much more in that situation because he'd be more than £1000 a month worse off than me.

The house is owned 50-50, and I can afford to pay all my own outgoings myself (including rent and half of the mortgage). I'd just have to cut back on more extravagant things like eating out and having sky movies. The bills are currently all in my name but since i started refusing to have DH stand over me while I talk to people on the phone, he's decided that they all need to be in his name so he can check everything. So everything for the new house is in his name, and we're about to move.

He does have good points. It's just sometimes the good points can sort of melt into bad points. For example, he can be very caring but then that care manifests in worrying irrationally about stupid stuff (no, the kids won't get sunburn in October). He is clever and can be funny. We have interests in common.

I think when you write down the problems like this, it does make everything sound worse than it is to other people.

OP posts:
gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:07

Why don't you see if you can find a good counsellor to run it past? I am happy to talk to you off board if you like.

Really it is not good. The money is the least of your worries. That can be sorted out during the financial parts of divorce if you go down that route.

I would worry about your and your DC mental health living with this type of control.

Lots of people are clever and funny. They aren't also controlling loons though. He makes me feel like I am having the life crushed out of me and I din't live with him!

I very rarely post these days, but your OP really made me sit up and take notice.

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:09

Sorry when I say off board I mean you can PM me if you would like to.

ClippedPhoenix · 04/09/2012 15:13

I'm loathe to get my own current account again as I'll just be subjected to questioning and demands that I check it all the time

Ummm OP, Tell him in no uncertain terms to back off and check his own.

Time to stand up for yourself isn't it OP.