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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

OCD or being an arse?

76 replies

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 13:43

The thread about people's perceptions of OCD has got me thinking about DH's incredibly annoying behaviour. He does have OCD (with checking and anxiety over really silly things) but it's not so bad that it takes over his life, iykwim.

I find the most annoying thing about living with DH is that becomes incredibly controlling because of the OCD. Actually, I'm not sure how much is him just being an arse and how much is the OCD. I think the need to control comes from the OCD, but the really annoying stuff really is him being a total arse.

He insists that I do things but then stands over me/nags or questions me relentlessly afterwards to make sure I do it his way/on his timetable. For example, he insists that I talk to tradesmen/estate agents/the council/all sorts of other people on the phone sometimes (because he's decided on his own version of a 'fair' division of labour, about which I will moan say more in a minute) but then complains that I approach it in the same way he would. Whatever I do is the wrong way. And he questions me on every aspect of the conversation; I'm almost expected to recite the whole thing back to him. I've lost count of the number of times I've said, 'if you want to know exactly what they say/it done the way you'd do it, you have to speak to them yourself'.

I get really pissed off when he decides the timetable for things too, and often respond by leaving it much longer than I would have just because I refuse to be controlled in that way. Im aware that's a bit passive aggressive, but saying 'no' never gets me anywhere as he refuses to accept that I might have other things to do.

For example, last week I was working on important stuff that I needed to concentrate on. DH was doing some work on our new house (that I didn't ask him to do, he decided it had to be done and it had to be done that day). He phoned me up and told me that I had to phone a tradesman and get him to come round. I was doing something else, so I didn't do it immediately. A little later he phoned to tell me about a problem (he had caused) and I had to go and pick him up. I still hadnt phoned the tradesman, as i wasnt going to do it until id finished my work. Then he spent hours complaining at me and going on about how he was unreasonable asking me to do something when he's doing everything else for the house, etc, etc. He just cannot and will not accept that he doesn't have any right o phone me up and tell me to drop everything and do whatever he's decided needs done at that moment. I would never phone him at work and tell him to drop everything and, say, make a hairdresser appointment for me.

And that brings me to the division of labour stuff. He has this idea of a 'fair' division of labour in his head and he sees it all as a kind of trade off. He will not do anything unless I do something as well. So, as in the previous example, he decided that he was doing work on the house so I had to do something as well. The most annoying thing is that this division of labour does not include all the household tasks, only those 'visible' to DH.

Take a typical day. I will get DS2 up and dressed and myself up and dressed. Then I have to do a nursery/school/work run, where I drop everyone else off and then come back home to do my own (FT) work (I can work at home most days). This means that I leave at the back of 8 and don't get back til after 9, whereas DH gets in to work before 9. I then have to do a work/nursery pick up in the evening (DS1 walks home from school himself), which means I have to stop work about 4.30 and don't get home until about an hour later. Because I'm at home, I do all the sick child care and lots of other household tasks. I also do all the cooking, which is very time consuming (and also comes with doing all the meal planning, the shopping and sticking to a budget that DH won't hyperventilate over). Being made to account for why our weekly shop for a family of 4 was £70 rather than £60 (when we can afford for me to spend double that every week!) drives me mad.

All DH is supposed to do is the washing up, the hoovering, putting the bins out and the washing (and then it's only because he is ridiculous about controlling how things are washed and always complains that I've washed his clothes 'wrong'). He does not always do any of this. I have to wash up at least once a week, often more, because he huffs and puffs about how tired he is (I have an autoimmune condition and fatigue is a major issue; he does not)/complains that I've used too many pans or utensils, etc. I regularly have to do the bins and the washing (even though I then face complaints about it being wrong). Nonetheless, DH will sometimes come in from doing the washing up, sit down next to me on the couch and then tell me to get him a cup of water. It seems that in his head, he has done a task ('for me') so that means I have to do something for him. When I utterly refuse, he acts all hurt and says that he just thought I could do something nice for him.

He almost never does something without expecting a balancing out in me doing something else. This wouldn't be so bad if he actually included all necessary tasks in his accounts, but all the things I do everyday don't seem to count. Not once in the last 3 years has he taken on the cooking while I've been there (no matter how bad I feel). The best he'll suggest is a take away, but then I either have to go out and pick it up or do the washing up, or both.

DH does 'cook' for himself and the kids when I'm away for work. I have to commute (nearly 2 hours each way, door to door) for work once or twice a week (but not all year round). Usually I try to make sure that I leave when everyone else does, and come home in time to make dinner (meaning a lot of time on the train for very little time in my office). One of those days I leave before 7am and don't finish work until 8.30pm and don't get home til after 11pm. This means that DH has to sort the kids out and produce a dinner, and even wash up. I have to either leave some left overs for him to reheat or buy some filled pasta and sauce that he can make himself. the horror! I have to commute because we moved to this part of the country for DH's job. I used to be able to get to work in 10 minutes but then DH got a job and I had to be the one that commutes. (there are advantages to where we live, but still, he doesn't seem to appreciate what I have to sacrifice both at work and at home to do this). In DH's mind though, he has to do all this work looking after the kids so it requires me to do more to balance it out.

The other area of control that really gets to me is our finances. I earn considerably more than DH. My wages are paid into a joint account, and this is where all the rent, bills, childacre and other everyday spending comes from. I set up a joint account like this when DH was unemployed and it was the entire household income, largely because I didn't want to be the sort of person that restricts their partner's access to money. Once DH got a job, however, he elected to have his wages paid into his sole account. He claims this is to make sure we saved as much as possible for a house deposit/renovation costs, etc. He keeps this money in a variety of savings accounts in his name only. I have absolutely no savings in my name because there's never any money left in the joint account at the end of the month for me to save. If it looks like there's too much money in the joint account, DH will transfer some to his accounts and then he'll transfer money into the joint account as and when necessary. If the joint account funds are running low, he'll transfer as little as possible into the account to make sure things are paid. He'll usually transfer a similar amount back into his account after I've been paid again.

This means I have access to very little money and always have to think before buying anything. I can't buy train tickets for work without checking first because there is rarely enough money in the account to cover it. He'll transfer money if I ask him but it's a bit humiliating having to ask. I also hate the feeling that I don't have any money. I was a single parent at university for many years and I never had any money. I had to watch every penny I spent and I still ended up with a big overdraft. As soon as I started working, I started paying off that overdraft and it was all gone before I even set up the joint account. Yet, DH uses the fact that I used to have an overdraft as an excuse for why he needs to remain in control of our money. His OCD means that he compulsively checks his online banking, and he interrogates asks me about everything I've spent money on if he doesn't recognise it. But I don't think it's really an excuse for squirrelling away all the money where I can't get it without asking.

In some ways, it doesn't matter as we're renovating a house right now so all the savings will soon be spent but I do resent not having access to money. I often don't buy things because I know there won't be any money in the joint account and then complains that I don't obsessively check the bank account or ask for some money. I don't really see why I should have to do either of these things.

Having written all that down, it sounds like our relationship is dire. It really isn't as bad as that sounds (I think this is often the problem with posts in relationships). But I guess I'm wanting to know what parts of this are due to DH's OCD (and that I should learn to tolerate better) and which parts are just him being an arse.

It's hard for me to tell because he tends to turn everything around in an argument so that I look like I'm unhinged or something. I am aware that I'm decreasingly tolerant of things DH does, and I end up very angry at him. He then makes it out that because he's calm and I'm not, then I must be the one in the wrong. For example, I find his obsessions with things being 'clean' very difficult to tolerate (not least because the dirty sod leaves used tissues all around the house that I have to clean up).

He almost never listens to me, and he's a bit deaf so he claims he doesn't hear me, so I often end up having to shout. He almost never listens to anything I say unless I shout (and he is not that deaf). It's frustrating because it feels like I either have to give in and do things his way (in which case he never notices that I have compromised) or I have to shout to have my point of view heard (and the, of course, I'm being unreasonable). So I quietly compromise about 90% of everything and then on the 10% of stuff that I think really matters I have to be really stubborn over. Then, of course, I'm unreasonable and always have to have my own way.

For example, he was clearing massive piles of junk (that he'd insisted on holding on to) out of our garage. I was just leaving him to it and not interfering in his decisions. Then he picked up a box and I asked him to just leave that one and I'd look through it later (as i was cooking at the time). But he didn't pay the slightest bit of attention and started going through the box. I hate it when he does looks through my stuff because he is always suspicious and will always find something to be annoyed/disappointed with me about in it. So I asked again and again but he just kept talking over me and ignoring me. Eventually the only way to stop him going through the box (of old paperwork that didn't affect him, but that he'd have insisted on interrogating me about) was to shout and take the box off him. However, that meant that I was clearly in the wrong and a shrieking harpy. But I really don't know what else I was supposed to do when he was so blatently ignoring me.

OP posts:
gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 16:37

Please have that chat with your H and come back and tell us the outcome.

I hope that he does see the light and change.

LisaMed · 04/09/2012 16:38

Don't know if this question will help - it's a sort of a Devil's Advocate one and you don't need to answer.

Do you think your DH would accept that his behaviour can have a negative impact on you and if so would he be prepared to modify that behaviour?

Whether it is a condition or an arse, that question tells you how your life is going to be or worse. There is a thread in AIBU about someone who has OCD here which may help you. Without some sort of impetus things aren't going to get better.

PropositionJoe · 04/09/2012 16:39

I think I understand how it can be that your relationship isn't as bad as it looks on paper. I also think some individual counselling would benefit you; you need to pick one or two of the issues issues to discuss with him first and he probably needs some anti anxiety meds. Has he ever taken any?

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 16:42

TheLightPassenger: you are right. DH's need to control his anxiety does seem to take over. At one point he was trying to involve me in his nightly checking routine. He'd beg me to 'help him'. I refused to stand there while he checked things repeatedly but I hadn't properly thought of this in the same way.

LittleFrieda: yes, teens do take up more emotional energy. It is hard, but I do try to make some toddler-free time for DS1. It's hard to get DH to see how important this is. I should do this more. DS1 is a lovely boy and brilliant with DS2, but I can tell he gets fed up with his brother. Our current house is a bit of a disaster, with no storage for anything. But I was planning on making DS1's bedroom a DS2 free zone, so he can feel like he has more of his own space. It was nice over the summer to be able to have lunch with DS1 and talk to him while DS2 was in nursery.

DS1 and DH do bond over videogames. They both love them and chatter on to each other about them. I find it quite exhausting, so it's good that DS1 has someone to share his interest. DH is much more patient with DS2 though.

OP posts:
TheLightPassenger · 04/09/2012 16:50

I've seen your post on the other thread now. Certainly what you described there about food/checking etc does sound OCD like. But the obsessions re Money/chore allocation don't resonate with me. Possibly he might have OCD/anxiety AND be a controlling arse. But OCD isn't a get out of jail free card, he should be seeking appropriate help - CBT and/or meds. Given the waiting list for psych services, probably worth considering going private for CBT if that is what is recommeneded.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 16:54

Oh I do understand that abuse comes in many forms. I was more that DH doesn't realise that what he does could be/is abusive.

I think he would be willing to try to change. I honestly don't think he realises what his behaviour is like. I will speak to him and I will report back. I think I posted because its now gotten too much to handle. It's not a great situation, but I think it can be improved. Of course, if it doesn't I spent many years on my own and I'm more than capable of doing it again.

I think he needs to talk to a neutral person in order to understand that it is not rational or reasonable to check you bank account several times a day or to need proof that the car door has been locked. And also that nothing dreadful will happen if the car is left unlocked on the drive for half an hour in the middle of the day. And, of course, that normal people don't tally up their contribution to a household.

He's never had anti-anxiety meds or anything. It might help. And it might help with all the health problems he seems to get, which I'm entirely sure are physical manifestations of his anxiety.

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 04/09/2012 17:08

I'm very sorry to hear that other people have had similar problems in the past. I think your situations were probably worse Once I properly talk to DH about this, he will probably be quite shocked and ashamed. He really isn't a bad person, and I don't think he means to be controlling. Nonetheless, the fact is he's been behaving like a controlling arse

Yours is bad too OP seriously.

Don't think that because he isn't punching you that he isnt abusing you.

The bad thing about emotional abuse is that the abuser will wear you down so much that you think its normal.

Can you say whats good about him/your relationship?

MardyArsedMidlander · 04/09/2012 17:21

'I think your situations were probably worse.'

No- I think they were exactly the same! My ex also never saw his behaviour as abusive- I wish he had. he felt it was about being careful with money and knowing where things were. Of course stopping someone going to bed until you can find your late father' death certificate- I thought that was abusive. Ringing me at work and demanding I stop talking to a homeless suicidal client because HE couldn't find a clean shirt- I thought that was abusive.

But as he used to tell me, he didn't go out to the pub at all hours so how could I say he was abusive.
like you, I used to tell friends tiny little snippets of our lives and they would look utterly appalled and stunned. And I'd go 'he's not so bad! he's just very stressed at the moment! He'll get better when he trusts me more!'.

tzella · 04/09/2012 17:28

I've just searched and the word 'treatment' only appears once in this whole thread Confused

What is being done to treat his OCD?

TheLightPassenger · 04/09/2012 17:34

might be because I used the world "help" rather than treatment in my post!

tzella · 04/09/2012 17:36
Blush
Busybusybust · 04/09/2012 19:13

AU - where do you see yourself in say, 5 or 10 years? Do you really think you could sustain this pressure for that long?

He is abusive, and I doubt he will change. Think of your poor sons!

OK you need to address the abuse - he ain't going to like it, or probably see it as abuse - but that's what it is. I think you chase to go down the counselling route - he certainly deserves that - and who knows - maybe he he'll see the light.

But whatever, you can't stay I thi relationship long term

Eurostar · 04/09/2012 19:42

OP - I have to admit to only skimming your posts so not sure if your DH has a diagnosis but if he does, it is possible it is obsessive compulsive personality disorder rather than the the more commonly known obsessive compulsive disorder and it has not all been properly explained?

This isn't a bad page about the differences
ocd.about.com/od/otheranxietydisorders/a/OCD_OCPD.htm

Can you afford the money for him/would he agree to see a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist for an assessment?

DixieD · 04/09/2012 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Inadeeptrance · 04/09/2012 21:42

I've not read the whole thread but how can you live like this. Controlling and abusive. Read Lundy Bancroft's book 'why does he do that', or look on the WA website at financial, and emotional abuse.

This is not a normal relationship and you do have a choice as to whether you continue, but the chances of you getting him to see, understand, and change are slim, to none I'm afraid. Sad

LemonDrizzled · 04/09/2012 22:13

I second everything gettingagrip said OP. She is spot on.

It seems to me that because you grew up with Grade A abusive family you can't see that you are living with a Grade C abuser.

This is not normal. You are putting up with the impossible. The rest of us would have told him to sling his hook years ago. You must be endowed with supreme patience and understanding to cope with his irritating ways. I respect you for that and your desperate attempt to tolerate him. But think what this will be like for your DS growing up. They will believe he is normal and learn to imitate him. Do you really want that?

Please read some of the links on the EA thread about financial control and so on. It takes a long time to see your relationship objectively when you have so much invested in it. But you have to deal with it before it sucks you down

Springforward · 04/09/2012 22:26

Another vote for arse here. Relative of mine is with a man who has OCD, and IMHO it is also rather conveniently excusing him being a controlling and abusive partner. But she won't leave, so nothing changes.

crackcrackcrak · 04/09/2012 22:28

The part about him going through the box rang true for me. I used to wonder if exp was either a bit autistic or just very interfering because that's exactly the kind of thing he would do. He could disrupt me doing anything and did do on purpose most of the time. Living with him was exhausting and constantly antagonistic because he couldn't just come home and let anything lie. Figuratively and literally.
At the same time he couldn't help me with anything even willingly - a lot of the time because of the same division of labour rubbish.
I could not live with a man like that again.

If you really want to stay with him I suggest you pick your battles wisely: list what's really unbearable and tackle them. The money would be top of the list for me - the not being able to book train tickets is absurd!!! Next I would go on strike wrt to providing dinners when you are away - he will manage!

HansieMom · 05/09/2012 00:14

He is acting irrationally but that does not mean you have to go along with it. For him, and TLP, and anyone else with OCD, you could try Paxil, an antidepressant. I needed it for depression, and it had the marvelous side effect of fixing my OCD. People might think 'fixing' is too strong a word, but it did. I would think, well, this is something that has bothered me but it will probably be okay, an it was. I cringe, TLP, to hear you say you have had OCD for decades as it is such a difficult way to live. But there is help, please try.

OhDearNigel · 05/09/2012 00:39

Sorry OP but it sounds to me as if he is claiming to have OCD so that he can blame all unreasonableness on it "it's not my fault, it's my OCD".

If you ask me the OCD in his case stands for Objectionable Cock Disorder. I think you know the MN cure for that..

MountainsMove · 05/09/2012 01:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CailinDana · 05/09/2012 07:31

Op while you're rearranging your whole life to accommodate his "OCD" - an illness he doesn't bother dealing with or treating - what is he doing to help you deal with your auto immune disorder?

Also if you actually have to scream at him so he follows your very simple request not to open a box (at which point he implies you're unhinged) what makes you think he'll suddenly see the light and change if you point out his behaviour is abusive?

tallwivglasses · 05/09/2012 07:37

Sorry op, I would have murdered him and buried him under the patio years ago. You are a saint Shock

gettingagrip · 05/09/2012 09:18

How are you this morning OP?

I was thinking about you all night. Some of the things you have said were in my mind, eg you say your H is good with your small DC but not so good with the older one. I would suggest that this is not really anything to do with the fact that he is not his child, but everything to do with the fact that the older DC will have his own opinions and views on things which your H cannot deal with, as they are different to his own. The younger child will not be at this stage yet so is not a threat in the same way.

I think a lot of the issues you are having with your H is because he is incapable of seeing you as a person separate from himself. Several PDs have this as the central issue, and it means that you can shout yourself hoarse about leaving boxes alone and so on, but it will make no difference whatsoever to them as they do not see you as another person.

Every single thing about my mother is explained by this - all sorts of head-fuck stuff which seems insane, until you understand what is going on in their heads. It is still insane of course! But once you see this you can see why they act as they do.

If he is PDed there is nothing you can do about. Your first duty is to protect your DC from the insanity. What do you know about his parents? These things are in families.

It will be interesting to see what his reaction is when you ask him to get some help. Most Pded people (not all) cannot see that there is anything wrong with them, so will not seek help. Clinical psychologists and the like therefore see their victims rather then the person themselves.

How long have you been together and how long have you been ill?

TheLightPassenger · 05/09/2012 17:49

Hansie - thanks for your concern. I have been pretty well for 8 years now (have been on Prozac continously and intend to remain so) but will never be 100% free, more like 90-95% at best. When better off I had private CBT as well, which I still use. So life is quite good really, I can work, holiday, have pleasure etc.

dixie - from the sufferer POV I would say your post is spot on, q agree re:not enabling etc.

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