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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

OCD or being an arse?

76 replies

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 13:43

The thread about people's perceptions of OCD has got me thinking about DH's incredibly annoying behaviour. He does have OCD (with checking and anxiety over really silly things) but it's not so bad that it takes over his life, iykwim.

I find the most annoying thing about living with DH is that becomes incredibly controlling because of the OCD. Actually, I'm not sure how much is him just being an arse and how much is the OCD. I think the need to control comes from the OCD, but the really annoying stuff really is him being a total arse.

He insists that I do things but then stands over me/nags or questions me relentlessly afterwards to make sure I do it his way/on his timetable. For example, he insists that I talk to tradesmen/estate agents/the council/all sorts of other people on the phone sometimes (because he's decided on his own version of a 'fair' division of labour, about which I will moan say more in a minute) but then complains that I approach it in the same way he would. Whatever I do is the wrong way. And he questions me on every aspect of the conversation; I'm almost expected to recite the whole thing back to him. I've lost count of the number of times I've said, 'if you want to know exactly what they say/it done the way you'd do it, you have to speak to them yourself'.

I get really pissed off when he decides the timetable for things too, and often respond by leaving it much longer than I would have just because I refuse to be controlled in that way. Im aware that's a bit passive aggressive, but saying 'no' never gets me anywhere as he refuses to accept that I might have other things to do.

For example, last week I was working on important stuff that I needed to concentrate on. DH was doing some work on our new house (that I didn't ask him to do, he decided it had to be done and it had to be done that day). He phoned me up and told me that I had to phone a tradesman and get him to come round. I was doing something else, so I didn't do it immediately. A little later he phoned to tell me about a problem (he had caused) and I had to go and pick him up. I still hadnt phoned the tradesman, as i wasnt going to do it until id finished my work. Then he spent hours complaining at me and going on about how he was unreasonable asking me to do something when he's doing everything else for the house, etc, etc. He just cannot and will not accept that he doesn't have any right o phone me up and tell me to drop everything and do whatever he's decided needs done at that moment. I would never phone him at work and tell him to drop everything and, say, make a hairdresser appointment for me.

And that brings me to the division of labour stuff. He has this idea of a 'fair' division of labour in his head and he sees it all as a kind of trade off. He will not do anything unless I do something as well. So, as in the previous example, he decided that he was doing work on the house so I had to do something as well. The most annoying thing is that this division of labour does not include all the household tasks, only those 'visible' to DH.

Take a typical day. I will get DS2 up and dressed and myself up and dressed. Then I have to do a nursery/school/work run, where I drop everyone else off and then come back home to do my own (FT) work (I can work at home most days). This means that I leave at the back of 8 and don't get back til after 9, whereas DH gets in to work before 9. I then have to do a work/nursery pick up in the evening (DS1 walks home from school himself), which means I have to stop work about 4.30 and don't get home until about an hour later. Because I'm at home, I do all the sick child care and lots of other household tasks. I also do all the cooking, which is very time consuming (and also comes with doing all the meal planning, the shopping and sticking to a budget that DH won't hyperventilate over). Being made to account for why our weekly shop for a family of 4 was £70 rather than £60 (when we can afford for me to spend double that every week!) drives me mad.

All DH is supposed to do is the washing up, the hoovering, putting the bins out and the washing (and then it's only because he is ridiculous about controlling how things are washed and always complains that I've washed his clothes 'wrong'). He does not always do any of this. I have to wash up at least once a week, often more, because he huffs and puffs about how tired he is (I have an autoimmune condition and fatigue is a major issue; he does not)/complains that I've used too many pans or utensils, etc. I regularly have to do the bins and the washing (even though I then face complaints about it being wrong). Nonetheless, DH will sometimes come in from doing the washing up, sit down next to me on the couch and then tell me to get him a cup of water. It seems that in his head, he has done a task ('for me') so that means I have to do something for him. When I utterly refuse, he acts all hurt and says that he just thought I could do something nice for him.

He almost never does something without expecting a balancing out in me doing something else. This wouldn't be so bad if he actually included all necessary tasks in his accounts, but all the things I do everyday don't seem to count. Not once in the last 3 years has he taken on the cooking while I've been there (no matter how bad I feel). The best he'll suggest is a take away, but then I either have to go out and pick it up or do the washing up, or both.

DH does 'cook' for himself and the kids when I'm away for work. I have to commute (nearly 2 hours each way, door to door) for work once or twice a week (but not all year round). Usually I try to make sure that I leave when everyone else does, and come home in time to make dinner (meaning a lot of time on the train for very little time in my office). One of those days I leave before 7am and don't finish work until 8.30pm and don't get home til after 11pm. This means that DH has to sort the kids out and produce a dinner, and even wash up. I have to either leave some left overs for him to reheat or buy some filled pasta and sauce that he can make himself. the horror! I have to commute because we moved to this part of the country for DH's job. I used to be able to get to work in 10 minutes but then DH got a job and I had to be the one that commutes. (there are advantages to where we live, but still, he doesn't seem to appreciate what I have to sacrifice both at work and at home to do this). In DH's mind though, he has to do all this work looking after the kids so it requires me to do more to balance it out.

The other area of control that really gets to me is our finances. I earn considerably more than DH. My wages are paid into a joint account, and this is where all the rent, bills, childacre and other everyday spending comes from. I set up a joint account like this when DH was unemployed and it was the entire household income, largely because I didn't want to be the sort of person that restricts their partner's access to money. Once DH got a job, however, he elected to have his wages paid into his sole account. He claims this is to make sure we saved as much as possible for a house deposit/renovation costs, etc. He keeps this money in a variety of savings accounts in his name only. I have absolutely no savings in my name because there's never any money left in the joint account at the end of the month for me to save. If it looks like there's too much money in the joint account, DH will transfer some to his accounts and then he'll transfer money into the joint account as and when necessary. If the joint account funds are running low, he'll transfer as little as possible into the account to make sure things are paid. He'll usually transfer a similar amount back into his account after I've been paid again.

This means I have access to very little money and always have to think before buying anything. I can't buy train tickets for work without checking first because there is rarely enough money in the account to cover it. He'll transfer money if I ask him but it's a bit humiliating having to ask. I also hate the feeling that I don't have any money. I was a single parent at university for many years and I never had any money. I had to watch every penny I spent and I still ended up with a big overdraft. As soon as I started working, I started paying off that overdraft and it was all gone before I even set up the joint account. Yet, DH uses the fact that I used to have an overdraft as an excuse for why he needs to remain in control of our money. His OCD means that he compulsively checks his online banking, and he interrogates asks me about everything I've spent money on if he doesn't recognise it. But I don't think it's really an excuse for squirrelling away all the money where I can't get it without asking.

In some ways, it doesn't matter as we're renovating a house right now so all the savings will soon be spent but I do resent not having access to money. I often don't buy things because I know there won't be any money in the joint account and then complains that I don't obsessively check the bank account or ask for some money. I don't really see why I should have to do either of these things.

Having written all that down, it sounds like our relationship is dire. It really isn't as bad as that sounds (I think this is often the problem with posts in relationships). But I guess I'm wanting to know what parts of this are due to DH's OCD (and that I should learn to tolerate better) and which parts are just him being an arse.

It's hard for me to tell because he tends to turn everything around in an argument so that I look like I'm unhinged or something. I am aware that I'm decreasingly tolerant of things DH does, and I end up very angry at him. He then makes it out that because he's calm and I'm not, then I must be the one in the wrong. For example, I find his obsessions with things being 'clean' very difficult to tolerate (not least because the dirty sod leaves used tissues all around the house that I have to clean up).

He almost never listens to me, and he's a bit deaf so he claims he doesn't hear me, so I often end up having to shout. He almost never listens to anything I say unless I shout (and he is not that deaf). It's frustrating because it feels like I either have to give in and do things his way (in which case he never notices that I have compromised) or I have to shout to have my point of view heard (and the, of course, I'm being unreasonable). So I quietly compromise about 90% of everything and then on the 10% of stuff that I think really matters I have to be really stubborn over. Then, of course, I'm unreasonable and always have to have my own way.

For example, he was clearing massive piles of junk (that he'd insisted on holding on to) out of our garage. I was just leaving him to it and not interfering in his decisions. Then he picked up a box and I asked him to just leave that one and I'd look through it later (as i was cooking at the time). But he didn't pay the slightest bit of attention and started going through the box. I hate it when he does looks through my stuff because he is always suspicious and will always find something to be annoyed/disappointed with me about in it. So I asked again and again but he just kept talking over me and ignoring me. Eventually the only way to stop him going through the box (of old paperwork that didn't affect him, but that he'd have insisted on interrogating me about) was to shout and take the box off him. However, that meant that I was clearly in the wrong and a shrieking harpy. But I really don't know what else I was supposed to do when he was so blatently ignoring me.

OP posts:
ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 15:16

Oh, it's nothing like as bad as my childhood. More exasperating than anything else and I'm definitely not scared of him.

My actually family are dreadful, and there's way too much to type out here (includes nasty divorce where parents used me as a pawn and generally behaved appaullingly and my evil grandmother trying to stab me when I was 10 and my parents taking her side).

I think I've made DH sound way worse than he is (although I do think his behaviour is a problem). He's a bit unrealistic with the kids, more so with Ds1. He's DS1's stepfather and he finds it hard to accept what is normal in a 12 year old boy. Mostly he just obsesses over unimportant issues and can't seem to let things go. I do end up expending quite a lot of energy explaining that, for example, it doesn't matter if DS1 doesn't hang his towel up on the radiator; he's the only one that suffers when he has a wet towel to use the next morning, and that's probably the only way that he'll learn.

When I say petulant and vindictive. It's not outright nasty or as worrying as that sounds. He'll sulk over things and behave quite childishly. The vindictiveness is more in wanting bad things to happen rather than anything else or he'll purposefully say somethng just to hurt me in an argument (for example, he'll imply that I'm a bad mother). It's more petty than anything else. But certainly not an attractive trait.

OP posts:
gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:22

So what do you want to happen OP? What outcome did you hope for when you posted your opening post?

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:23

And putting up with behaviour in a partner which is not as bad a behaviour that you have previously put up with is classic.

sudaname · 04/09/2012 15:29

I would worry about the 'tenants in common ' bit too. Whose idea was that - his ?
l was in that situation till l found out that if anything happened to my DH l would end up jointly owning our marital home with his two adult DCs (one of whom l have no love lost with - long story) and they could in fact insist on moving in with their families basically if they wished. l insisted on changing our ownership to 'joint tenancy' which is basically 'last man(or woman) standing' on the deeds gets the whole property - regardless of what any will says aswell.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 15:31

The thing is I do stand up for myself, which is why we end up arguing. I tend to prioritise things according to whether they're really worth making a fuss over.

The nagging to check my account is very annoying, particularly as DH seems to believe that something dreadful will happen if I can't say to the nearest pound what the balance is at any time. He genuinely thinks this is how normal people feel about their bank account, and he's utterly paranoid about fraud. So if he can check the account himself then I don't have to worry about it. I am quite happy with the general idea that I've got enough money, I don't need or want to monitor every tiny transaction.

I have talked to him about the issue of keeping the account balance as low as possible. He agrees that it's not fair or sensible, and that i shouldnt have to ask for money to buy train tickets to get to work, but he seems to be compelled to squirrel it away in a savings account as quickly as possible, even though this inevitably means transferring money back later in the month because there is t enough money in the joint account. He keeps about 30p in his own current account, so he has to transfer money any time he wants to use that account for anything. And he will let me see his online banking if I want to (in fact, he keeps insisting that I look to see what the budget is for house renovations). I know how much money he has in there, and I'm certain that he's not doing anything malicious with it.

He even agrees in principle with transferring some of the savings into my ISA (not least because then it would get more interest than in his normal savings account) but then it comes to the problem that he couldn't continually monitor it. He checks his online banking on his phone as often as he checks his email, which is loads. He would honestly get really panicky if he couldn't check all the savings, so he would feel he needed me to check all the time too.

Argh, I'm aware than I'm coming across as one of those foolish OP's refusing to listen to everyone and trying to defend the indefensible. I don't mean to. I think there are very real problems in my relationship, but I think I've made DH appear to be a total monster. He can be a nightmare, but not in a monstrous way. More in a trying to avert panic attacks kind of way.

OP posts:
ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 15:34

I think I wanted some perspective really. Even though I sound like a head in the sand OP I am listening and thinking about what you're all writing. Loads of people have very useful advice.

The tenants in common thing was my idea. DS1 is my son from a previous relationship, DS2 is our son. I wanted to ensure that DS1 can never end up disinherited if I die first. We have carefully written wills just in case, but DH is taking more of a risk here than me.

OP posts:
gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:35

So I ask again, what do you hope to achieve? What are you asking?

ClippedPhoenix · 04/09/2012 15:36

Ok OP but really you do need to get your own account sorted and tell him as stated in no uncertain terms to back off and let you deal with it yourself. Tell him how much it bugs you and drop it there. Every time he starts bossing you tell him to mind his own accounts business.

You seem to back down to keep the peace but then resent it and it becomes a big problem again. Be firm on "this" issue.

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 15:36

Sorry x posts.

MardyArsedMidlander · 04/09/2012 15:38

Either you are going out with my ex P or there are two men on the planet like this Sad

What really struck a chord, is that like you I have an autoimmune condition which causes extreme fatigue. By the time I got up the nerve to leave my partner I was 48 kilos- and since I am 5'7" this was NOT a good look- just totally worn down by his constant demands, bizarre rules and continual nitpicking. At one point he used to wake me at 2am to ask how much money was in my current account.
Of course I could never 'win' against him as I didn't have the time or the mindset for the constant score keeping and rules he used to impose. The more pissed off I became, the more anxious and controlling he would become.

sudaname · 04/09/2012 15:41

Oh l see, so you have made sure your son will at least inherit your half then , by going for tenants in common. sorry l stand corrected - good idea in that case. !

sudaname · 04/09/2012 15:43

Make that three Mardy my exh was certainly one of these triplets seperated at birth. Grin

Love the name btw.

TheLightPassenger · 04/09/2012 15:51

I have had OCD for decades. The majority of what you describe doesn't ring true of OCD to me. Presumably there is a degree of anxiety/insecurity behind his behaviour, but that doesn't give him free licence to behaving in such a controlling manner. Unless he seems there is a problem though, will he be motivated to change Sad

AmberLeaf · 04/09/2012 15:52

I feel stifled from just reading your OP Sad

This sounds awful.

He sounds incredibly controlling and appears to be financially abusing you (amongst other things)

This must be awful for your children too.

What do you get out of this relationship?

LittleFrieda · 04/09/2012 16:05

Hm. If his savings are about to be spent on a joint enterprise, he isn't squirrelling it away for himself. But perhaps in future, you should pool both your salaries, take what's needed for the house, and split the remainder 3 ways, savings, you and him.

LittleFrieda · 04/09/2012 16:07

Who looked after the children during the summer holidays?

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 16:10

I think I want to figure out for myself what the real issues are. It's hard to unpick them on a day to day basis, so hearing other people's shocked reactions is very useful indeed. It's hard to know where the boundaries of 'normal' in a relationship lie, especially when your experience is largely of dysfunctional ones.

I do actually agree that I should get some counselling about my childhood. It was not good and I have deep scars as a result. It's kind of a separate issue from my relationship woes, and not entirely 'current' as I haven't had any contact with any family other than my mother in more than a decade and I severely limit that/ensure its on my terms.

In terms of what to do with DH, I think we need to talk properly. Writing things down here and seeing the reactions, trying to clarify has been really useful. I have a much better idea about what we need to talk about and where I need to set some boundaries. In particular, the turning things around and making me feel like I'm unhinged is a big problem and something he needs to stop doing.

I know everyone is truly horrified by the financial thing, but it isn't necessarily as dreadful as it sounds or necessarily as difficult to resolve. I think talking to DH about how close his obsession with controlling and checking finances looks to outright financial abuse might be quite a wake up call. Honestly, I'd be happy with a joint account and more sensible allocation of savings. DH would (and will now probably insist in) put the savings in a shared account, but it doesn't make any sense not to use our personal ISAs.

The allocation of tasks thing is incredibly annoying, and I have some good ideas about how to make my input more visible. I am slightly concerned that he'll delight in a spreadsheet household time allocation survey, as then he could check and measure to his heart's content. I think what I really want, and what I need to get him to understand, is that it's not all about equal allocation of labour and that it's perfectly normal to just do things for other people without expecting anything in return. He is able to do that for DS2 (who is only 3), I just need him to see that a family is a gift economy, not a straightforward exchange. He likes to theorise things, so he'll probably like that.

And I think he needs to go and see the GP about the obsessions and compulsions. They are difficult to live with, particularly when he keeps trying to rationalise them. I can cope with a bit of checking the door is locked, but the generalised anxiety really negatively affects me and the kids. Again, he'll even more be motivated to do something about it when he realises how bad it is for DS2 to have a father who panics over really silly things.

Things have been getting worse over recent months (which is probably what prompted me to post), but life has been more stressful what with house buying and such like. We've probably not settled back into a sane relationship pattern since DS2 was born, as he was not a placid, sleepy baby to say the least! We've also had to move 3 times in his lifetime, both changed jobs, and other unsettling events.

I need to learn to be more patient yet assertive. I have to some extent started second guessing situations, which means I end up upset more than necessary. People have suggested some good strategies for dealing with being ignored or having unreasonable demands placed on me. I particularly like the post it notes one and the standardised text message.

To be fair to DH, I am not necessarily an easy person to be in a relationship with. Despite what it may seem from reading this, I am actually quite a strong and determined woman who knows her own mind (rather than a simpering doormat). I was a single parent for many years, so I have been used to doing things my way. There are also step parenting issues, which mean the balance of power in some aspects of our home life are weighted against DH.

I could probably be more sympathetic to how difficult it is to be in that situation (and appreciate how difficult it is for DH to let go and not worry about the decisions my ex makes on DS1's behalf). I do try to include DH in decision-making about DS1 but I know he find it's difficult to figure out what his role should be. And, of course, DS1 is starting puberty and is a big mess of hormone and irrational behaviour. DH doesn't have enough (any) experience of teenage boys (other than having been one) so he struggles to see that stroppy is quite normal. And he doesn't seem to understand the definition of 'easy going' or 'letting it go'.

I'm also more grouchy because I am very often in pain and exhausted. My doctors are trying to sort out effective medication for that, but it does mean that I am not well disposed to pandering to obsessions.

OP posts:
LittleFrieda · 04/09/2012 16:14

Blimey. I just read the second page. I think you should bank entirely separately, joint finances can't work for you with him like that.

He doesn't have the right to know your financial details, this is something that you share only if you want to.

LittleFrieda · 04/09/2012 16:18

If you have spare money to place in ISAs, perhaps you could use some of that to outsource some of the household chores. to lighten the load on the whole family, especially if you are below par and with a teen in the house?

It sounds as though the biggest thing you are short of, is time.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 16:21

Well yes, he's not squirrelling it away for his benefit. But he does like to squirrel it where I can't get it (to do exciting things like buy toilet roll). It isn't malicious though. He thinks this is the best way to ensure we have enough money for the house.

He does have problems with trust. And so he insists on checking through everything, thinking the worst about everything. Getting a bill becomes a big deal. Or worse, if he finds an old bill (that's long settled), he starts getting panicky and interrogating me about it. Having him be responsible for all the bills should sort that out.

In the summer, DS1 mostly went to his dad's (otherwise he was at home with me, but he doesn't need much looking after). DS2 went to nursery as normal. If there's unexpect childcare required it almost always falls to me. The only time it doesn't is when I have to be in work (in a face-to-face meeting, etc). I don't mind this with DS1 as he's my son and I don't have to entertain him. With DS2 the issue is that, as I'd be working at home anyway, I'd get nothing done anyway because he'd insist on me playing with him/comforting him while he's sick. I think I'd feel better about that if sometimes DH shared the ill child time with me, so we'd both be off work.

Although that sounds like a classic DH choice. He seems to think that the only two options are that ArbitraryUsername does it or we both do it together. I do tell him to piss off and do it himself though.

OP posts:
TheLightPassenger · 04/09/2012 16:26

generally part of recovery/treatment for OCD involves not making others part of your obsessions, dealing with the anxiety/feelings yourself without trying to get others to change their behaviour purely to reassure you. What niggles at me with your descriptions in your post is that his need to feel less anxious - whether about money or an unfair chore allocation seems to take precedence in family life.

LittleFrieda · 04/09/2012 16:27

For a blended family to work properly, you have to both share the burden of both children, even if that means him taking more of the load of your joint child, allowing you some time for your DS1. We are a blended family and there have been times where I've had to remind DH that we have 4 children, not 2. I have teens and primary children and it isn't an easy combination, the emotional energy that teens demand is largely unseen, but it is just as exhausting as chasing round after a 3 year old.

ArbitraryUsername · 04/09/2012 16:32

Well, we are very lucky that we earn good salaries (it certainly hasn't always been that way, so I am very grateful for it). And, yes, time is an issue. We're not absolutely loaded or anything. We aren't enormously extravagant and have never been on a proper family holiday (beyond going to stay with the PILs).

Everything is going on the house at the moment, but after that's sorted we should be able to save. Then, I was planning on us getting a cleaner because, frankly, neither of us enjoy housework and we will be able to afford it.

I'm very sorry to hear that other people have had similar problems in the past. I think your situations were probably worse. Once I properly talk to DH about this, he will probably be quite shocked and ashamed. He really isn't a bad person, and I don't think he means to be controlling. Nonetheless, the fact is he's been behaving like a controlling arse.

There is a family that lives on our street where the husband is abusive (it's very obvious, and I've had to call the police to report it a couple of times when he's been drunk and shouting abuse at his wife/threatening her through the locked door). DH is not impressed with the situation and can't understand why she doesn't leave him. He will (honesty) be horrified to discover that people would interpret his behaviour the same way.

OP posts:
gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 16:33

So basically you want him to change into a person who isn't obsessed with tit-for-tat job allocation, controlling behaviour around money and DC being DC, among other things.

I think he sounds like someone with a personality disorder who is incapable of changing, thinks there is nothing wrong with him, and that everyone else is wrong about everything.

The very fact that you are seriously considering a spreadsheet with every single second of every day of your lives accounted for just shows how bonkers the whole thing is. In normal families, whoever sees what there is to do does it, and no-one expects to have to account for every thought in their head just because their partner demands to know it. And people do not normally trade off doing the hoovering for the other partner doing the cooking or whatever. They may do it as they care about their partner and want to be fair, but they certainly don't do it and keep a tally.

You really do need to get yourself some serious counselling, and your family background is not separate from this at all, it is central to why you find yourself in this position now.

gettingagrip · 04/09/2012 16:35

And further to your recent post above - abuse takes many forms, and isn't just someone shouting!