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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

give in to bullying ex over contact?

78 replies

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 09:21

I've asked a solicitor about this and I'm waiting for her to get back to me, but I thought I'd canvass some opinions.

DD is 4 and about to start school on Friday. I've been separated from ex since she was 18 months. We have a court order - I'm residential parent, ex has lots of access, including during the day Mon and Fri. He'll lose some of this time when DD starts school, although he'll still have her after school on Mon and Fri till 5.45pm plus every second weekend and every Sunday night.

Prior to school, I handed DD over to him at a certain spot on Friday morning at 8.30am. Now she needs to be at school. Ex is trying to insist that I hand her over at the same spot at 8am instead. This means she has an unnecessary trip every Friday morning, with the risk of being late for school, instead of going straight to school, which is across the road from my house. I've said that ex can walk her to school on Friday morning if he wants, but he reckons that's not good enough. Bear in mind, he'll be seeing her later the same day anyway.

Ex has a long history of very controlling behaviour. Since we split, he's make false allegations to police and social services about me, failed to return DD when due, and tried repeatedly to bring me to court. He's a nightmare. He is very involved with DD and they have a strong relationship, but she tells me privately that she is scared when he gets cross with her, and I think she modifies her behaviour a lot to try to minimize his anger.

So, do I give in to his demands, knowing that succumbing to bullying means he'll continue to use this tactic? Or do I refuse to give in, knowing that he'll go into a rage and create a huge amount of stress on DD's first day of school? He's threatening to involve the police, contact the school (great first impression, eh) and says that if she misses her first day of school, it will be because of me. WWYD?

OP posts:

bigbuttons · 03/09/2012 09:24

no, don't, simply say it's not in her best interests.

bigbuttons · 03/09/2012 09:25

I would also inform the school.

headinhands · 03/09/2012 09:26

Can't he simply meet you outside yours as he has to walk her to the school anyway, injunctions etc notwithstanding obviously.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/09/2012 09:30

I hope you hear from the Solicitor soon.

Ex is still using controlling behaviour and is not above using his child to get back at you for having the gall to leave him. This move of his now is just the latest in a long round of tactics. Its all about him and what he wants, you are of no concern to him and his daughter is but of secondary importance to him.

There is likely no real reason why DD now needs to be there at 8am apart from the fact that this is what he wants. Do not whatever you decide give into his demands. Warn her school about him as well, you need them to be aware about this man.

I would also take a further look at the current court order and see if it can be tightened up to reflect the new changes. I would also consider whether it is really doing your DD any real good to be spending as much time with her father anyway bearing in mind the fact that controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour and she is modifying her own behaviours to suit his ever changing moods.

I'd also now be looking at your ex only making contact with either of you through a contact center and having contact much reduced anyway bearing in mind too his previous obstructive behaviours.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/09/2012 09:33

As it's obvious that this particular impractical demand is about point-scoring and not the wellbeing of your DD, there's no good reason for agreeing to it. If he has form for carrying through threats I agree about telling the school. Use the time with the solicitor to work out if you're still happy with the rest of the arrangements, given his aggressive behaviour. All bullies have to be stood up to. Good luck

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 09:37

I offered that, head. It's not good enough for him.

Attila, we started off in a contact centre when I first split. I'd love to go back to it, but I'm told it's a short-term solution. Ex is taking me to court in Oct, so I'm hoping I can use that to try to reduce his contact a bit. Part of me thinks that I should let him make a big drama this Friday, to hopefully show the court how he behaves, but poor DD - I don't want to put her through that either.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/09/2012 09:43

As a short-term fix, how about arranging with school to take DD along earlier than the other children for her first day? There's usually someone at schools by 8am - breakfast clubs operate a lot of the time and teachers get there early. If she's installed at school he won't be able to intercept you on the way and he won't be able to gain access into the school itself.

BerylStreep · 03/09/2012 09:45

I agree, what possible benefit is it to anyone for your DD to meet him at 8am, apart from to satisfy his need for control?

'He's threatening to involve the police, contact the school (great first impression, eh) and says that if she misses her first day of school, it will be because of me.'

What a shit. He is prepared to ruin his DD's first day of school, and then try to blame you. I would warn the school in advance and ask them for their advice too. Is there another parent you can walk to school with on Friday? If he is likely to make a scene when you are bringing her to school, would it be an idea to take you and DD off-side completely? Leave the house at say, 7.45 to have a special first day at school breakfast at a cafe, and arrive at school at 9.30am? The school might support you with this approach. A huge scene outside the school is going to be frightening, not just for your DD, but all the other children too.

What about speaking to the police and social services beforehand?

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 09:49

Cogito, thanks. I do have to stand up to him more. I get nervous about a court considering this to mean that I'm showing hostility to contact. He's told the most blatant lies about me not doing handovers. Not all that easy to prove that the handover did take place when it's going back two years or more.

OP posts:

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 09:55

That's an idea about going early. I suppose I'm reluctant to enrage him because it happens to be his weekend with DD immediately afterwards, and he'll be telling her all this stuff about me being evil and not looking after her and trying to stop them having a relationship. But giving in to the bullying just perpetuates it. Aaagh.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/09/2012 09:56

Courts are run by intelligent people. Your ex may think he's regular guy that is nice and persuasive but if he is a bully that had no contact for over 2 years of his DD's life and has a track record of involving police and social services they will have 'belligerent arsehole' written in the margin of their notes. It is not at all hostile to want a little girl to walk across the road to school on her first day rather than waste an extra half-hour on an unnecessary trip. You offered a compromise which was rejected.

'Tell the truth and shame the devil'.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/09/2012 10:02

If he's prepared to fill a little 4yo's head with nasty lies about her mother, he's beneath contempt. Again, keep notes of it all.

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 10:02

Just to clarify, he's always had contact. And I suppose I'm reluctant because during the original court hearing, I had given the CAFCASS officer information about his behaviour while we were married, but it didn't seem to count for anything.

Anyway, thanks all for stiffening my resolve. I'm not going to give in this time.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/09/2012 10:13

So exaggerate the truth a little. Force him to show his colours. Make the CAFCASS officer sit up and take notice. He seems to have no qualms about lying about you.

Collaborate · 03/09/2012 10:31

Op - I'm a family law solicitor if that helps.

You should take your daughter to school yourself and allow him to collect her until 5.45. You should also be applying back to court to vary the order, as it's completely unworkable now.

I'm sure the court would understand. The order was only made that way because your daughter wasn't in school. I'm sure that it wasn't intended to still apply after she started school. A court would have expected the two of you to try and agree alternative arrangements some time before she started school.

It's not in your daughter's interests to do as he suggests.

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 10:43

Collaborate, thanks. My ex has already applied to court to say the current order is unworkable, using it as the basis to argue for more contact. I need to be more proactive in terms of what I'm seeking from a revised order.

OP posts:

wannaBe · 03/09/2012 10:43

people who use their children as pawns like this make me sick.

op - I would call his bluff. So he's going to go to the police - and tell them what exactly? "officer, my ex won't bring my daughter to the drop off point half an hour before she starts school, this is a matter for the law I think...." sorry being flippent now but the mere suggestion of his going to the police makes him look like the idiot he clearly is.

This isn't about reducing contact - it's about making the arrangement that is best for the child - something which he clearly seems to have lost sight of.

She's not a toy to be passed around for a turn for half an hour here and there - and I would tell him that in no uncertain terms. If he wants to take her to school then fine. Tell him he can pick her up at yours and take her to school, but that you'll have no part in any demands to drop her off at a certain place at a certain time just so he can stay in control.

Be assertive - he can only get to you if you let him.

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 10:49

You're right, wanna. I'm not too worried about the police. He's called them before when I have failed to answer his phone calls and I just get a bored-sounding police officer phoning me to see if I'm alive and haven't fled the jurisdiction as per his allegation.

I'm slightly nervous about him turning up and physically grabbing DD from me, which he has a long history of doing. I think he'll be clever enough to know that making a scene will look bad when we go to court, so I'm mainly worried about what he'll say to DD for the rest of their weekend together.

It's all about his entitlement and nothing about DD's welfare. We're all just bit parts in his drama.

OP posts:

BerylStreep · 03/09/2012 11:32

I'm a little concerned that he is trying to argue that he should have more contact now that DD has started school. Is he suggesting that because he won't see her on a Friday during the day (i.e. when she is going to / at school, that he should therefore be able to use his 'contact allowance' at other times, effectively increasing the frequency of contact? Does this mean that you will see her less?

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 11:53

That's what he is arguing. He wants "compensation" for the lost time. In fact, he wants 50:50 time.

OP posts:

wannaBe · 03/09/2012 12:03

is there any reason why he shouldn't have 50 50 though?

Don't get me wrong he is clearly an arse, but is there any particular reason why he shouldn't have 50/50?

Offred · 03/09/2012 12:06

WannaBe - I think that would be the phrase "it's all about his entitlement and not about dd's welfare".

ShIne0ncrazydiamond · 03/09/2012 12:16

How local is he to you?

Is he any threat to her? Is there a reason why he could not have more contact or another night a week?

He sounds like an arsehole for sure - but putting aside how he has treated you - how does he treat her?

cestlavielife · 03/09/2012 12:29

it is very clearly much easier for dd to go straight from home to school.

you might consider whether now or in future she would eg stay over at his on a thusday night then he takes her to school.

but to get up extra early to hang around a street (and bearing in mind winter is coming) in order to get half hour before school makes no sense at all, and you can easily say this in court.

Original poster

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 12:46

I agree the question is how he treats her, not me. I think DD benefits by having time with him. I don't think she'll benefit more from more time because
a) he badmouths me to her, saying I don't take care of her etc. He tells her I am bad and my parents are bad. This has caused her confusion and distress.
b) she says regularly that he gets cross with her a lot and tells her she's naughty. She copes with it by not crying, because tears enrage him further.

That said, he's not physically violent. He feeds her (lots of sweets, but I'm picking my battles and that's not one) and dresses her well - in fact, he buys lots of clothes and shoes and dresses her better than I do, because I let her pick clothes, within reason, and he doesn't.

In terms of my own life, him having her for more time is fine - I've got work and study etc, so I don't think I'm clutching at her for my own sake. I'm just concerned that he's always wanted to annex her. His own mother ended up totally marginalized in his upbringing, and he seems determined to replicate that.

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