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Original poster

give in to bullying ex over contact?

78 replies

NicknameTaken · 03/09/2012 09:21

I've asked a solicitor about this and I'm waiting for her to get back to me, but I thought I'd canvass some opinions.

DD is 4 and about to start school on Friday. I've been separated from ex since she was 18 months. We have a court order - I'm residential parent, ex has lots of access, including during the day Mon and Fri. He'll lose some of this time when DD starts school, although he'll still have her after school on Mon and Fri till 5.45pm plus every second weekend and every Sunday night.

Prior to school, I handed DD over to him at a certain spot on Friday morning at 8.30am. Now she needs to be at school. Ex is trying to insist that I hand her over at the same spot at 8am instead. This means she has an unnecessary trip every Friday morning, with the risk of being late for school, instead of going straight to school, which is across the road from my house. I've said that ex can walk her to school on Friday morning if he wants, but he reckons that's not good enough. Bear in mind, he'll be seeing her later the same day anyway.

Ex has a long history of very controlling behaviour. Since we split, he's make false allegations to police and social services about me, failed to return DD when due, and tried repeatedly to bring me to court. He's a nightmare. He is very involved with DD and they have a strong relationship, but she tells me privately that she is scared when he gets cross with her, and I think she modifies her behaviour a lot to try to minimize his anger.

So, do I give in to his demands, knowing that succumbing to bullying means he'll continue to use this tactic? Or do I refuse to give in, knowing that he'll go into a rage and create a huge amount of stress on DD's first day of school? He's threatening to involve the police, contact the school (great first impression, eh) and says that if she misses her first day of school, it will be because of me. WWYD?

OP posts:
Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 10:50

Offred, that's encouraging. You're right about me needing to re-adjust my thinking. I've got to stop reading those horrible stories in the papers about parents killing their dcs - they make me want to rush around keeping him happy at all costs.

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MagicLlamaStrikesBack · 04/09/2012 11:04

Nickname,

I think if you are blocking contact and being difficult for no reason then yes the court would frown upon you, but from what you are saying a) you arent blocking contact and b) you have a reason.

I was very like you in the beginning and I was full of compromise and just gave into what he wanted because I couldnt deal with his constant pressure, and I felt keeping the conflict away from DS was important. Ex just ramped up his demands in the end, and after 3 years of it DS had a breakdown. I am ashamed that it took DS to completely fall apart before I realised how much he was struggling. DS was trying so desperately to keep us both happy he just couldnt do it anymore.

My ex has actually ended up with indirect contact only because of the hostility and his dickish behaviour of course he now wont write because hes not having it his own way which is also affecting DS but there you go

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 11:53

Oh Magic, your poor DS. Your ex sounds like mine - they will manufacture conflict because the thrill is in the "winning" rather than in the contact itself.

Hope your DS is doing okay now.

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cestlavielife · 04/09/2012 12:15

i understand the dilemnas - his rage his problem but if he rages when with DD?

for this specific issue tho i think everyone, court etc would be on side of you and dd - is pointless for d to ahve to met extra early on school day just to please him. here is concrete example where you say clearly - no, this is not in dd best interest.

that dd modifies her behaviour around him is also worrying - my dd 10 is confused over contact with dad (has gone off with him today, he is in good phase at present and she is favourite) but she talks about not wanting to "let him down" if she says she doesnt want to go at times he suggests or only wants to visit for two hours not six etc.

older dd 12 does not want to see him - and where there has been doorstep contact he is critical of her openly "you need your brain seeing to" or sends me msgs accusing me of twisting her mind and turning her to my "way of thinking". she has had enough of having him tell her how "abusive" i am to him. he accepts no role whatsoever in terms of his behaviours eg when in throes of severe mh having impacted... (tho has tried in past to use his MH to, for example, delay court hearings - "i am too sick" ) .

these people show no logic... you can never "win" on logic on rational thinking. - but you can stick to firm boundaries and show resolve .... "no dd will not meet you at 0800 on school days. she will go straight to school from home" end of. let him take that issue to court and look stoopid...

TheProvincialLady · 04/09/2012 12:16

If he has a history of aggression and is threatening to make a scene on the first day your daughter starts school, please DO ring the police and explain the situation and ask for their advice.

I feel very sorry for you in this situation and very, very sorry for your daughter having such a massive bullying tool for a fatherSad

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 12:25

YES, that's exactly the fear, that it's DD who suffers.

I'm really sad to hear of all these other children in the same situation. My DD is manipulated in much the same way as your younger DD. How can a supposedly loving father make a child feel guilty and confused in order to control them?

I can't believe I got suckered into having a child with this man, not seeing what a mess he was under the surface.

Tappy foot waiting for solicitor to respond.

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Offred · 04/09/2012 12:30

It depends on your magistrate and how you justify your perspective - supported by research etc. If you can make a well supported case I think they should listen.

BerylStreep · 04/09/2012 12:31

Have you spoken to the school?

Downunderdolly · 04/09/2012 12:41

Hello Nickname

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have had some issues with my ex re handovers - not to the degree you have - but you have received good advice on here and I shan't add to it other than to say that I would struggle to imagine that a court would find a child leaving their home 30 minutes before they are due at school to spend time with parent vs the offer of said parent been given the option to walk to school would be upheld.

In my instance most of the time ex drops or picks up DS (also aged 4) from school. However at w/ends when this isn't possible we now - after a couple of unpleasant incidents - do pick ups/drop offs from outside local cafe about 2 minutes drive from my home. This has ensured that we are in a public place and that any 'unnecessary' behaviour is taken out of the equation - just mentioning as although does not solve your specific issue it may be something that could be considered - unless it already has - in the other times.

I was so sad to hear about your ex bad mouthing you to your DD. Do you have a court ordered parenting plan? I am in another country (another story as unable to return back to UK) but we have a court lodged parenting plan that precludes this so there would be some legal recourse. Fortunately, despite a problematic relationship between me and ex and a several regrettable incidents infront of DS when ex lost control, he by and large refrains from this.

Having experience a fraction of what you are going through, my heart aches for anyone in this situation. It is truly shitty. Good luck my love x

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 12:42

I sent the school the contact order a while back and mentioned that contact was sometimes contentious. Ex says he's been on to the school, and God only knows what he has said. I don't know whether to talk to them again - I don't want to come across as being a contender for the Jeremy Kyle show.

If I were a betting woman, I'd say Friday morning will be more of a whimper than a bang, and ex will attempt to get his revenge by throwing all his efforts into brainwashing DD that Daddy is Great! Mummy is Evil! before the next court hearing.

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Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 12:46

Downunder, a lot of sympathy for you for being unable to return to the UK.

No parenting plan - not sure if they exist in UK, but will ask solicitor.

And yes, handovers are in a (very) public place only. That hasn't always stopped ex shouting at me, but there is no way I would do it in a non-public place.

Thanks to all for the comments. Going offline for a bit to spend some time with DD!

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Downunderdolly · 04/09/2012 12:59

Hi Nickname

Have a lovely day!

The parenting plan I referred to isn't actually (my error with words) court ordered but it is lodged with court and is part of our access agreement. It sets out

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 22:42

Thanks, Dolly - I think a lot of that stuff will be going into the revised order. Being specific does help.

My solicitor has been in touch and I'm feeling better about it. I'm going to be more proactive in proposing a contact order that works for me, while she's also going to contact ex and try to bring down the emotional temperature a notch or two. She also confirmed what you all said, that no court would require the Friday morning handovers. So thanks all - I'd lost sight of what was a reasonable and normal way doing things, and you set me straight!

I'm also going to talk to the school and reassure them that a revised order is underway, so it's not always going to be like this (I devoutly hope).

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crackcrackcrak · 04/09/2012 22:48

We have parenting plans in the uk but they are overruled by contact orders.

I would go and talk to the school and ask what they think about this daft 30 minute thing. If they support you ask if they would mind being quoted by your solicitor. I know what you mean about feeling like you are on JK as I squirmed like mad when ex forced me do do similar with nursery but any experienced teacher will have seen it all before and probably be supportive.

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 04/09/2012 22:51

You're right, just have to take a deep breath and do it. Using my poshest accent.

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Original poster
NicknameTaken · 07/09/2012 09:57

Update: it went fine this morning. My solicitor sent a letter to ex which pretty much reiterated how much contact he gets, and reminding him that he'll be getting half of school half-terms etc. That, plus a last minute compromise on location (near the school, just not the exact spot suggested by me, so a face-saver for him) seemed to calm him down. We met and took DD to school together, and there was no drama.

It's not all peace and harmony, as I've seen the additional court papers and there are a series of utterly bizarre and exaggerated claims against me (I let DD watch The Lion King, apparently because I wanted to implant ideas about fathers dying in her head). He also claims that the police, social workers and two previous solicitors have failed to treat his claims with due seriousness. Frankly, he sounds unhinged.

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TheProvincialLady · 07/09/2012 10:06

So glad it went ok this morning for you and DD.

You are right, he does sound unhinged. He's not exactly helping himself with his application is he?!

Offred · 07/09/2012 10:12

It will come out in the wash but you will not be sure until the final judgement. Have faith and assert what is best for dd now rather than what you are allowed because that will set the precedent for what is reasonable in the future.

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 07/09/2012 10:19

No! I veer between being glad that he's shooting himself in the foot, and anxiety about possible mental issues that impact on his parenting. I'm not sure the extent to whether he really thinks this stuff is true and the extent to which he believes it is good advocacy for his cause. There are cultural and language differences which affect the way he presents himself but even so. He has included email conversations which consist of a fairly ordinary question from me about what arrangements would suit him, and his epic rants in reply.

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Original poster
NicknameTaken · 07/09/2012 10:21

Sorry, that "No!" was to PLady about him not helping himself.

That's a good point, Offred. The problem is that I wobble about what is best for DD. I do still think that some contact has benefits, it's just determining the cut-off point at which the contact becomes damaging.

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Offred · 07/09/2012 10:42

Yes, mine see their dad. The contact has benefits. It is really hard to know where to draw all the lines I know.

cestlavielife · 07/09/2012 11:25

court etc is just going to ignore his lion king comments - is difficult tho when they being totally outrageous - my most recent expereince was when forced to attend pre assessment to get dds counselling - they insisted seeing both parents together first - he came out with such nonsense i was seething - yet they were just saying "hmm" "yes i see..." "oh i see..." "ok..."

arrghghgh. but i have to believe when they review the notes they see what nonsense he was sprouting...

cestlavielife · 07/09/2012 11:27

and when their self belief is so huge

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 07/09/2012 13:30

''He also claims that the police, social workers and two previous solicitors have failed to treat his claims with due seriousness.''

Really, I wonder why .... Grin

Glad to hear it went well this morning.

Is it possible to request that he have a psychiatric evaluation?

Original poster
NicknameTaken · 07/09/2012 15:46

Cestlavie, yes, I can see why they do their utmost to appear non-judgemental on the face of it, but hopefully it has to play a part in their assessment.

Smells, I will ask my solicitor. Not sure what the chances are, but no harm asking.

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