How do you know for sure that you should leave?

[Apty]

Relationships are full of good and bad. What do you do when you are confused about the balance and how bad it really is?

My instincts tell me to leave sometimes, and then at other times that seems like the worst thing to do.

Do you reach a point when you know?

Hi everyone - just checking in. No real changes here. I asked dh if he'd consider counselling, on foot of advice from my own counsellor. She reckons we need help to separate. I'm not sure about that. A quick lotto win would solve the vast majority of my problems... The thought of the next two years are killing me. But until i get out from under my debt situation there's no hope of a second residence. He's not too keen on counselling but said he'd do it if I wanted to.

Good to hear your positive story Dogstar.

It was our 5th anniversary of getting together yesterday, my DP was on majorly romantic mode and I was fluctuating between depression, feeling like my heart was being torn out, and appreciating the lovely things he did for me all day. A very confusing day. I had to keep a smile on my face all day and it was a massive struggle.

He has been making a big effort at home too, helping with the cooking, tidying up, getting bits from the shop. If he was being a twunt it would be so much more clear-cut . My feelings are still the same, even though we have been having more fun together over the last few days since our big chat.

How has your weekend away gone Thistlepetal?

I have just been re-reading this thread rather than working, and all of your experiences and advice to eachother are giving me so much to think about. Thanks .

Tired of, how are you? You sound a lot like me , but I'm still here , living with my dp and our kids wishing he would leave , lacking the guts to make a move myself

My weekend away was good thanks :), great to be away from it all with good friends. Came home to a very long and detailed email from DH in which he seems to be issuing an ultimatum. (Counsellor suggested any means of communication since DH away a lot and few opps to discuss).

Basically he wants us to try again in our marriage, in which case he will make lots of changes, but if I won't try then he feels has done all he can. And that he's not to blame for any of this. And that he'd like to know so he can move on and find another partner.

Don't know whether to laugh maniacally (*sp) or cry. I've responded to some of his points and he is coming home tonight so we can discuss during the day tomorrow, without risk of the DCs overhearing. I'm nervous of what the outcome will be, but relieved to finally be having a full discussion about it. I know he is very hurt right now and there is a fair degree of emotional blackmail in the email, but I'm trying to stay focussed on what's best for the me and the kids.

Sherry it sounds positive that your DH is at least considering counselling with you? How do you feel about it now?

Cannot your situation sounds so sad, but good to hear you are managing to have some fun together. That's what is so horribly lacking from our marriage but if you can get that back, do you feel there is some hope?

Dogstar you sound so contented, that's great - and it's also great that you're on such good terms with your ex. Can't see that happening for us if we split, it's already starting to get a bit nasty, so any advice you could give to nip that in the bud would be much appreciated :) .

I'd also like to thank Dogstar for being kind enough to post when she's moved on.

That post made me think though. Dogstar's dh sounds 'worse' than mine. Though there are others on here whose dhs sound 'better' than mine. I guess it's all irrelevant really, what counts is if you are happy or can imagine being happy in the future and feel you have things to look forward to.

Feck, thanks for asking. I've just come on here because I'm feeling stressed out and I thought I'd see if the thread was still alive. I'm procrastinating about moving out. Dh is in no hurry to see me go. Little things are stopping me...

1. I spent absolutely AGES half-killing myself decorating the big sitting room in my new house. I used a litre of filler, did all the prep properly. Chose a lovely colour. After one coat it looked great, but on close scrutiny a little of the underlying white showed through as specks. I'd run out of paint, so bought some more and did a second coat. It looks like shit because the second tin of paint wasn't the same colour (it should have been). So it looks patchy. I've taken the paint back and they gave me some more and a refund but I really wanted to have one room looking nice before I moved in so knowing I need to do the walls again is a nuisance and I don't want to move in until it's done (or am I just making excuses?)

2. I need bedroom curtains and I haven't got any. I'm not going to sleep much without them.

3. I can't bring myself to organise moving. My office is a mess and I need to sort it all out. I need to order packing boxes and start packing. I can't get my head round getting a removals company in and saying I want them to take the odd piece of furniture here and there. And I can't face doing all this with dh around, it seems so cruel.

4. I'm back at Uni and I have hardly any time for anything now.

5. I've got an au pair lined up and I need to tell her to book a flight and give the poor girl some dates. But I can't until I know when I'm moving in.

This is crazy, isn't it?

I'm really scared. I'm scared I won't know how to work the heating in the new house. I'm scared I won't like it when I'm on my own. There is no telly or internet. I go over there and let myself in, it's still empty and every time there is a new letter on the mat re council tax, TV licence etc. I feel engulfed by it all.

This is bloody pathetic, isn't it?

Dh's twin has offered him a long term loan which would help financially a lot. I can't urge him to take it but I wish he would. It would give him a bigger budget to find a house, he's really struggling to find anything to go and see at the moment.

Family home is actually under offer now, so it's definitely all going to happen.

I can hardly believe it and keep feeling like begging dh to come too.

God, I'm hopeless :(

tired, I get it, I really do.
I have projected into my ( single) future and amongst the (pathetic) things that hold me back, are
a) internet access/ internet problems ( DP is a techie whizz)
b) painting and decorating ( One of his fortes)

so allow me a sympathetic and wry smile at your predicament.
feel free to PM me

Hi, thanks to you all for your kind words.

Thistle The only advice I can give you on keeping things civil for when you split is to sit your DH down and say that for the sake of the kids you want to at least be able to talk about stuff regarding them without arguing. Even if it involves arguments initially say you would hope when its all sorted you can both behave like mature adults for their sake. Explain how you'd like to be able to keep him updated on things like school or what they are up to but you won't be able to do that if he is being nasty and cos he's a good dad you know he'd be disappointed not to hear those things. Make it sound like you are doing him a favour, he might not be as confrontational then. Not sure if it will work but worth a try.

tiredof It can all be very daunting but I find the best thing to do is make a list. Write down everything you need to do and sort out, then work through it one thing at a time. I can understand you wanting everything decorated but it really doesn't matter if its not done. As long as you have somewhere clean to live the painting can wait. It's a year since my ex moved out and I decided to paint the stairs myself, got half of it done and then gave up. I'll get back to it eventually but tbh I don't care. So what if my stairs are multi coloured, its not the end of the world. Just so you know, Argos do some cheap curtains, buy the cheapest you can find for your bedroom, they'll do for now. I had pink walls and green curtains for ages lol.

Feck Again with painting and decorating, its actually not that difficult and as I said above, not the end of the world if it doesn't get done. With regard to internet access etc, again pretty easy to figure out and if you can't do it ask about, there is bound to be someone who can help or will know someone else who can.

Hope this helps, things do get better, I promise.

Tiredof, I get the overwhelming feeling of all the things you will have to do and worrying whether you can do them.

Dh has gone, and it's the start of everthing being different, and so far, the bits I think I can't do have been ok. I'm managing children and work and practical stuff - it's tiring and sometimes scary, but I can only live hour by hour at the moment, and as something comes up, I just have to deal with it. I feel very sad a lot of the time as it's all very new and I'm still coming to terms with my decision, but I also feel relieved and a little bit excited - I'm moved things around and made the place feel different and nice, it all feels totally possible right now.

Hi all, feel like I should start my own thread really, but you all seem like such a supportive lot to moan on at, share my woes with. I hope everyone is okay, and that those of you who have made decisive moves recently are coping ok.

Thistle thanks for your comment, it is really good that we can have fun together still, but it makes everything so confusing. I am not sure if it does give us hope, it just makes me feel such a bitch. I kind of feel now like he is a wonderful friend, but that I don't want him to be a sexual partner, although he is a partner to me in so many other ways. I don't think a relationship should have the sex bit missing long term to be healthy, but I basically can't stand him touching me . I don't fancy him at all .

He has been really helpful since last Thursday's big chat, around the house, giving me general support, making a real effort. The thing is that with this he has been trying to get all smoochy, and I have been trying for his sake but kissing / touching etc just leaves me cold. He says that every time he kisses me it blows his mind, and I am thinking about the kids / what's for tea / work .

The atmosphere has gone downhill between us since Wednesday morning. We have not talked about it yet as he was out last night. TMI ALERT I woke up in the middle of the night Tuesday night to him rubbing inbetween my legs, and my immediate, sleepy reaction was to push him off and shout "get the fuck off of me". He did, and I then don't remember anything else as I went straight back to sleep. I know from past experience he will tell me that he wasn't even aware that he was doing it. Now, I know from being a regular on Relationships, that many here would say this is assault, and I don't feel comfortable or good about it, as I have made it clear that I am finding the sexual side of our relationship difficult, and he has promised me he will back off. But, OTOH, I know that for many, and me too in previous relationships, this is a pleasant and perfectly acceptable way of being woken up by your partner. I guess I am just confused because I swing between being angry about it because he used to grope at me all of the time and this is one of the reasons our relationship has hit the doldrums, and thinking that it isn't really his fault, because in most relationships this is okay behaviour... isn't it?

No, it's not OK behaviour. It's a demonstration that he thinks he's entitled to have sex on you, and that he is going to keep trying to do so whether you like it or not.

It's also unsurprising that you are not interested in physical contact with him; being constantly touched and slobbered on and having to be on permanent alert to stay out of reach of his grabby hands and clammy cock is utterly off-putting. And it's worth bearing in mind that some men who constantly pester for sex don't actually want sex at all; what they want is to make you feel anxious, miserable and revolted.

Hi all,

Can I join please. I think my name says it all! I'm switching between the relief at the thought of life without my H, and then feeling like I should give it yet another try for our 20 month old dd.

We had a huge talk a couple of weeks ago, where we both said we're at breaking point. H wants to try but I've been at this point before and he hasn't cared. It's only because hrs at breaking point now that he's 'committed' to changing.

I on the other hand am tiered of it all. If I could snap my fingers and be on the other side of separating from him, I honestly think I'd do it in a heart beat.

At the moment he's being all lovely, promising me everything he thinks I want, but at the back of my head I'm just thinking, I'm done, I want out, I want my own space, my freedom. I have no effort left to put in, and tbh I don't think I even want to.

Bit if background, we are each others first relationship, got together young and been together 9 years almost. So I have no idea how to end a relationship.

Sorry for spelling, on my phone.

Gotta go, he's back

cannotseeaway,

Would not stay for the sake of the child; it teaches the child that your relationship is based on a lie.

The child/children will then have two parents who don't get along, and so they can grow up in a dysfunctional home run by two parents who can't show love for one another.

It is not at all fair to do that to the child if you are as unhappy as you are and mired in unhappiness. Do not let it drag on for years. If you stay for the child, the child will likely not thank you for doing so and could even go onto ask why you put him (i.e your H) before her.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships?. If it was not for your child would you be together at all now?.

My post should be addressed to PulledInTwo

Apologies.

Cannotseeaway - I do think that sort of behaviour is so damaging and confusing. It makes you feel mad because sex should be a normal part of a relationship and when it makes you feel so awful, but there's pressure to just give in and pretend, you feel so guilty and angry and horrible.

When I first started a thread on all this, months ago, it was because my dh had raped me after years of this kind of pushy behaviour. I didn't face it at all but it eventually made me really ill, just the effort of living with the pressure. I got really confused about what I should do and if I should leave or not - it became all about that. I started this thread with a name change because I wanted to find all the other reasons apart from that one - and feel strong in my decision, I couldnt decide how I felt about anything. I'd already made steps to split up but needed to feel strong in that, and confident in my choice. As soon as you mention rape, everyone tells you to leave - but the kind of pressure and control you're talking about was just as bad in a way.

Now it's happened, it's very very early days - but I can see that there's just no escaping from it, it's been so so destructive, you can't be true to yourself while in that situation - it's like you're not being heard and your feelings don't count. I know I've done the right thing. I may be exhausted and feeling a little bit shell shocked, but I can cope with all that better than being in a relationship where someone does that to me. I think you'll feel better when you take some decisive steps.

Pulledintwo - I don't think any of us knows how to end a relationship, one step at a time I guess? It's never going to be easy but it sounds like you know your own mind and what you want. Maybe you could start to make small plans and gather information to keep you strong. Good luck

PulledInTwo not sure "welcome" is the appropriate word, but you will definitely find lots of empathy and support here.

"We had a huge talk a couple of weeks ago, where we both said we're at breaking point. H wants to try but I've been at this point before and he hasn't cared. It's only because hrs at breaking point now that he's 'committed' to changing."

I could have written this about 2 months ago - exactly that. I had to suggest separation before he realised I was serious, and by that time I really had had enough. He still wants to try, I still can't find that spark.

We had a very big chat this week and DH is coming round to the idea of separating amicably for the sake of the children. Before this point I couldn't tell if I was putting off saying for definite that it's over, because that was what I felt was best for me as a person, or just because I felt he was going to make it very difficult and nasty from that point onwards. I now feel a huge weight has been lifted, and that when I do call it, it will be for the right reasons. I'm still biding my time though, as I still feel he has a lot to come to terms with and I think the potential for nastiness may still be there.

So in some ways I am no further forward, but in other ways I can see that the less rush there is, the more likely we'll all come out of it in tact.

Cannot, I can see why you're so confused - it does seem like your H is pulling out all the stops to change your mind, and I wonder if he thinks that trying to win you over in bed is another means to that end. But when you clearly are giving signals that you're not interested in him sexually, he has no right to do that. None at all. Even if you were to give things another go, I suspect that the sex side of things would be the very last thing to fall into place - and he needs to respect that.

Apty, I'm so sorry to read what you're having to cope with. You're right about being decisive though, you are taking back control and it must be better than being stuck in a relationship where you're not being heard. Stay strong, and use all the support you're being offered.

I hope others here are coping well and making progress, I sure I wouldn't be nearly as strong without this thread.

I decided to leave my ex husband when I found myself wishing he'd have an affair so I'd have an excuse to go! 4 years later we're separated but he still rings me and calls in to see the kids, I'm sorta like his best friend now, he even gets on with my new partner!! It was a very hard thing to do, but I'm soooooo glad I did it.

andyjay if I could guarantee this outcome for us, I'd be gone in a flash! Which kind of says it all, doesn't it..... Baby steps..... Thanks for sharing - lovely to hear from all these folks who have made it through :)

Pulledintwo yes, welcome. It's kind of sad when someone identifies with all the stuff on here because it's a hellish place to be in, but there is some reassurance in knowing other people are in the same boat/know what it's like.

Well, folks, I have got a date to move out. I'm getting some help from someone and we have agreed a date, so it will be in just over a fortnight. I've had the keys to my new place for over a month, so it is about time, really. Feels very daunting. I'm hoping it will give me some clarity. At the moment, I am either at work which is really stressful all the time, or at home where dh is ominipresent, which is also really stressful all the time. I feel exhausted.

Keep thinking I should ask dh to come too; think about a new start, free from financial worries, which is what it would be if he did. Things are very bad for him at work. If we all went we could bank a load of equity from the family home and use it to live on, go on holiday, make life fun again. And it would take the work pressure off him, which is one of the things that killed our marriage. He might be different then. He could find another, more enjoyable job, or start a new business.

I don't know if these thoughts are real and how much I should respect them. Is this just me getting cold feet? Not being able to let go? I have to try it alone, don't I?

Apty I'm so sorry to read what happened to you.

I think you are brave to have freed yourself. A while ago I was on, or started, a thread about agonising what to do. Someone told me that it's weird, and sad, for a while. Then you start enjoying life again and do not wish to go back. I hope it's true.

Also, I meant to say, another thing I have noticed about this thread and have wondered about. We are all in agony about what to do. Things are not so bad that getting out feels like a matter of life and death, it's all about mixed feelings. I can't help feeling that some of us have marriages that should have worked, except for the fact that our husbands didn't wake up and smell the coffee until it was too fucking late.

I can't imagine ever reaching a point where I don't regret massively my marriage not working out. And along with that, there is anger because I was not waving but drowning for years and I was unheard. Why do they only try to change in the way we need them to when they have a gun to their heads? Why could they not do it when it would have counted? How many of us tried to talk, asked for counselling, and were only listened to when we said we'd had enough and wanted a divorce?

Apty I cried when I read your post yesterday, I am so sorry about what happened. Much of what you described rang so true with me, especially the part about feeling like you are going mad, and that your feelings don't count and you are not being heard. Thanks for sharing something that must be difficult to share, as it has really helped me, and helped give me the courage to have it out with DP last night.

SGB I do not think that DP would act as he did to purposely make me feel anxious, miserable and revolted, but he has managed it anyway. Your words sum up my anger.

I told DP last night that what happened on Tuesday night was very much out of order, and cannot happen again. He suggested him moving into the spare room, and agreed with me that he needs some individual counselling to address his "neediness and disrespect to himself and me" (his words). He also echoed your words Thistle, about how he now realises that the physical side of our relationship is going to be the last thing to slot into place if we do end up staying together.

So that is it then, he is in the spare room, and it is all very depressing. It feels like this is the beginning of the end to be truthful, although I really want to give our relationship a chance.

Tiredof you are so right about all of these men waiting until the last minute to change their ways. DP said last night he has had the kick up the arse he needs now, but that he also knows that I have heard it all before. I think it is probably too late for us, but want to give it a chance and let him have his counselling and see if he can put his money (or lack of) where his mouth is. It is painful sleeping alone with him in the attic room above me, knowing that he is sleeping alone too, but there is also relief.

tiredof I am glad you have a date to move. I reckon that once you are moved and settled into your new place you will have a much clearer idea of whether you can ever envisage your partner living there with you, and whether this idea fills you with hope or dread .

Glad some weight has lifted thistle, I feel the same. I do not feel so guilty now DP has taken some of the blame off of my shoulders.

Thank you for the welcomes. I'm sorry you're all in this awful situation to, but at the same time it makes me feel better I'm not alone. Little steps does seem to be the way forward. I'm a full time student just starting my final year, so my plan is to wait and see what finances I'm getting from student finance. Hopefully I'll be able to support myself financially if I moved out. If I can I guess I'll start looking for somewhere to rent...

Its just so confusing at times. As someone mentioned, the relationship isn't awful but its not good. I find myself wishing at times that my H would cheat so I could have a clear cut reason for leaving. I agree with tieredof that it seems to be that, at least my H, only seems to care now that it's to late, now that the spark has completely died. I don't want to hurt him,but I'm so tiered of this ...deadness. We were so great at the start, so in love and we complemented each other so well. I think H neglected the relationship due to putting it on the back burner and now he's ready to work on it,its already dead we should have worked, and I'm so sad, sad to be at this point, sad for my H, for loosing what we had, sad for our dd,...

Going to take small steps and keep posting on here if thats ok.

Pulledintwo, yes, keep posting. I'm not always around, but I'm grateful this thread is still going. It's helping me a lot, and others too, I'm sure.

I'm also a full time student and have one more year to go after this one. Then I will start earning :) I am also worried about the finances until this happens. Feel free to Pm me if you want to share any info about practical stuff.

Wondering if Smallsherry is still around? Hope you're OK.

Please may I join you all? Having similar issues. My H has drinking issues and is currently not working. He isn't doing enough to remedy either problem despite me issuing an ultimatum 3 weeks ago.

I've had enough. Even if he does decide to apply for 10 jobs tomorrow and join an alcohol support group (highly unlikely on both counts) I think there may well be no way back for me now. Right now I think ky respect for him has gone.

I just feel churned up inside about it all, devastated for my DDs and I can't think about anything else.

Sorry for you bushy :( Welcome.