how do I help my unhappy girlfriend?

[sadchap]

She is wonderful, intelligent, inquisitive, brave, driven, kind, talented, gentle, earnest, moral, well-read, funny, an awesome cook, can push herself up mountains... and spends a lot of her life depressed or dysthymic, is easily annoyed by her (slightly mad) family, has mild aspergers (diagnosed), is a bit of a hypochondriac, is quite negative about her career, and is inclined to believe she's a failure at everything.

She really isn't a failure, but is currently perseverating about the fact she's finding it hard to find work, and comparing herself negatively to lots of our friends who have perhaps chosen easier career paths, found partners earlier, had higher salaries, bought houses, had kids, etc. We are scientists, which means contract jobs until your mid-30s and then if you're really lucky a permanent job. I was lucky to get a permanent job a few years ago, but she hasn't, and she knows that she is competing against an ever-younger, ever more-relevantly-educated field, and is feeling she'll never find a job, never be able to buy a house, never have a functional family life.
It isn't helped by the fact she has a few friends who have chosen the same career path (academic science) who are not only really really brilliant, but who have also had very good starts in life (academic establishment rich parents who've known exactly how to nurture their kids' careers).

Her career has been one of spectacular highs and a lot of lows, largely because of the aspergers. Her whole family isn't very social so she spent years at uni learning cues that other people learnt aged 5. She doesn't care much about her appearance, which gets judged by other people, unfairly (that makes them shallow, obviously, but she doesn't understand that that's what they're responding to). She isn't great at reading body language, and can be a bit impetuous (particularly when responding with devastating retribution when someone's said something really stupid). So she does make enemies, and she gets a lot of job interviews but they generally don't translate into jobs.

I'm trying to just be there for her. But she is almost pulling away from me - she's started looking for jobs in other countries, and last night she offered to leave so that I can have kids and a normal life with someone else. She seemed to be afraid that I would resent not having kids later on (we're both 36), because she doesn't really want kids and isn't in a good enough place mentally or financially to have them at the moment.

I don't want someone else! I want a happier life with her! While I would like kids, I'd rather we were both happy and healthy and together - kids would be a bonus, that's all. i don't know what to do. I don't want her to leave, and I've said that - but also if the only way she can find a job is to temporarily move somewhere else, that might be ok if it helps her. As academics we can't really assume we could both have a job in the same place. It's not going to help if I give up my career to be with her somewhere, at least not until she gets a completely tenured stable job, which could take years, and in the current climate, might not happen.

She is so unhappy. What can I do?

I've come here asking for help because there will probably be lots of women about my girlfriend's age here, who have been through similar things. Also because she has discussed Mumsnet with our friends (who have kids) so with luck she may see this?

My first question is to ask if her depression is being treated?

not very effectively. She hasn't found drugs that do anything useful, in about 5 years of trying, and unfortunately the NHS options available for counselling don't seem to really help. She has a good relationship with her GP, who I think realises that the counsellors available aren't much help.

So that's one area that needs changing - but a lot of this is more to do with life circumstances. if she could be happier, relax a bit and perhaps fit in more a bit with her peers, somehow, she might feel less depressed, and might find it easier to get a job. Everything is all feeding off everything else. I don't say she should fit in with her peers more in a "she should conform" kind of way, i just think that it would make her feel less alienated, and indeed be less alienated.

SadChap, I feel for you both.

In a similar predicament to your girlfriend in that I have a freelance, high pressure career that is constantly being undermined by younger people who can do it cheaper because they have rich parents. Highs and lows, with more lows as time goes on. Feel I've made the wrong choice compared to friends but it's too late now.

I find it impossible to relax, so I don't really know how best to encourage your girlfriend! I can only sympathise and be so impressed by your concern and your love for her.

Could she go back to Uni and study something else? A complete career change? This is something I contemplate often and it cheers me up a lot, except I can't afford to do it so it goes nowhere for me. As you're managing to hold up the pair of you financially, would this be worth encouraging?

Just a lot of empathy for you both.

I know nothing at all about ASD, but is there any sort of help for adults with ASD to help them maybe learn how to "fit in"..inverted commas as that sounds wrong but I'm sure you know what I mean!

I would echo retraining however if uni wasn't easy, would she find it similar second time around?

If financially viable I'd really try counselling privately, if medication isn't an option. I was on antidepressants for 16 years on and off and some were horrendous but it literally saved my life, finding the right one, however it can take up a month to see any benefit.

Does she have friends as caring as you that could help you out?

thanks for the answers.

Her ASD isn't extreme enough for her to really need life skills training - she needs something like training in not being a target for bullies/well-meaning shallow people who think "if she just wore some makeup and a nice dress, smiled more and held her tongue, she wouldn't look so sour and unpleasant" My sister and her sister, and our mothers, have "done better" on "normal" life metrics (houses, kids, marriage, jobs), and they tend to judge her and put her down a lot like that, particularly her mother.

The thing is that they're really being unreasonable, and nasty, but they're also a little bit right - and I think she knows that, but is so unhappy about the nastiness that she doesn't see that this could be one (very easy) way for her to avoid a lot of the animosity. She doesn't really have "good" friends - she tends to invest a lot in people who eventually reveal that they don't really care as much as she does. We do have some social activities, stuff we both enjoy doing, but the men expect her to mix with the women, and the women don't relate to her because they're like our sisters and mothers. She also gravitates to father-figure academics, rather than ones who might be more helpful - the father-figure ones tend to either deride her or exploit her (or both).

With a better social network, more buffering, she might not take the lows so intensely personally... other people have the lows too, but to most people, a job rejection isn't a full-body-blow that takes months to recover from.

Academia is actually an intensely social career path - probably not the right place for her at all.

Retraining could be an option - though she would need more motivation and confidence than she currently has, and at 36, would need a very clear idea of where she was going, which she doesn't have. She has tried careers couselling, but it hasn't helped much, because - like the NHS counsellors - she seems so well qualified, so functional, but just so unaccountably unlucky (or in need of help in areas that aren't quite their area of expertise), that they don't really know what she needs or can't give it.

also - private counselling doesn't seem to be financially viable round where we are, but also we haven't found anyone who would necessarily be any better than the NHS counsellors.

She kind of needs a kindly parent figure (preferably one that's highly intellectual and could build a relationship through interesting discussions about favourite topics) who could guide lots of aspects of life and career...

I think the NHS counsellors are probably fine at what they do, but not every counsellor-client relationship works out just due to personality and backgrounds, and if my GF is going to mistrust anyone it will probably be a motherly figure aged about 60, offering solutions that sound a bit too much like our mothers'...

Totally agree re counsellors, I've had some disastrous ones, and very few great ones, but some that were OK.

Is there anyone in your or her working life that could offer her an outlet to talk, discuss career and life in general, as it sounds like they'd be best suited as they would Get It as far as the career side goes?

It's a shame your close families aren't more constructive than critical, but sadly it is often the case. It took me a long time to learn to NOT measure myself against other peoples standards and achievements, often a painful lesson to learn but I'm very lucky that my parents have supported me through several major life errors and I've come thru the other side ok, albeit in my mid40s!

I'm not sure what to suggest next, sorry. Hopefully morning will bring more helpful folk. All the best!

Thanks ettiketti. The mentoring idea is a good one. It would have to be someone who understood the intensity of ASD - and who actually cared - a difficult combination to find, but we're both keeping an eye out.

I can sympathise greatly. I'm an academic and I find that there are so many pressures that go beyond the 9 to 5, and can really hit your self-worth and happiness.

I wish I could advise more constructively. You're obviously a very caring partner and I wish you all the best.

I think there are some ASD adults networks and/or chat groups, who might be able to help, perhaps? She might find talking to like-minded people online useful - even developing friendships that way. (Sorry, don't have a link)

As for women and science careers, these people might be worth a try - they sometimes have mentoring programmes, too: www.theukrc.org/

It is not a great time to be a career academic, or even any type of academic. The jobs market is terrible, there's hundreds going for each position and as you say, contracts are everywhere even jobs which used to be offered as permanent are now being offered as 3 year contracts.

So your girlfriend mustn't take it too personally, everyone is in a similar boat.

Where this leaves you is another matter. I live apart from my husband in the week so we can both persue academic careers, I know several couples who do that, the chances of getting the perfect next-step job in the same place at the same time is quite remote, so you may have to decide if this is worth it to both of you, or if one of you might want to do something else to stay in the same place.

Secondly, your girlfriend is depressed and says she doesn't want children. Perhaps you are rather optimistically thinking both these things will change, but they do seem quite entrenched and I think it is important for you to acknowledge that rather than just think they will sort themselves out. Has she had mindfulness therapy? CBT? There are some great programmes for dysthymia but they can be hard to access unless your GP is knowledgeable about them.

All you can do is carry on being supportive (which it sounds like you are) and reassuring your girlfriend that you are there for her. I also think you need to be realistic though that this is the way it is and there may be no dramatic changes.

I am similar to you gf, though self diagnosed. I have managed to get jobs, but then have found that the jobs took over my entire thoughts, found it difficult to keep house together at same time etc. And have ended up depressed in jobs, and often at loggerheads with managers. Am a huge underachiever, had one academic job back in the 70's but academe was not for me.

Could she perhaps write on her subject? I will also say that motherhood was a great time for me. Even though part of me kept thinking I was a failure for not fulfilling my academic potential.

She is so lucky to have you as a partner. Sadly I married an abusive cocklodger, which didn't help I have just got rid of him, am 60, and have not given up hope of making my true contribution.

I found paroxatine helps my mood, sometimes it takes quite a while to find an AD that works as it's a very individual thing.

I was also going to suggest a career change- what about writing textbooks? Tutoring? Taking a whole new direction?

I think it's easy sometimes to get overfocused on one path and forget there's several ways to make money and find career interest out there, especially if your girlfriend has a history of finding it difficult with managers/bosses. If she is diligent but has poorer social skills, she will end up doing all the work in a lab and getting very little of the credit, and could end up feeling incredibly frustrated. I think finding other career options could be the way forward.

I am not sure about having children given she doesnt seem to want them, or perhaps that is something you need to explore more as a couple.

I dropped out of academia some years back as couldn't stand any longer working 100 hour weeks with little pay without job security/having to up sticks and live in random locations just to get my next postdoc etc. I am also not good socially. I know what it can be like.

I think posting on Mumsnet hoping she will read it is a bit underhand. Why not just talk to her, or discuss jointly setting up a thread on MN?

Regarding the academic game - it is just really tough, especially if you don't have networking skills and especially in the current climate. Is there an alternative career she might like to follow? If not, can she force herself to dress/behave in the expected manner etc.? She is being realistic thinking that she may have to move overseas.

Regarding her ASD. There is some specialist psychological help available for people with ASD with anxiety or depression, for example at the Maudsley in London. You can do a google search. I think it is better if she sees someone with an understanding of autism spectrum disorders rather than a generic counsellor. She may well also benefit from linking in with online support groups for Aspies and seeing her GP for an antidepressant.

Good luck to her.

I think there are organisations that can help adults with ASD, I vaguely remember a thread on here not long ago from someone who had just been diagnosed with it.

But something else that occurs to me, and I honestly don't mean to be rude to you as you sound very decent and kind and sincere...

A big part of your girlfriend's problem is sexism and misogyny. She is being criticized and bullied for not being a 'woman' ie not devoting her time to cultivating an appearance that's pleasing to men, and she clearly doesn't defer to men just because they are men and she doesn't have a penis.

You might find this article helpful and interesting, specifically in relation to that.

At work so will be brief. Thanks all for the replies. Solidgoldbrass, i totally agree re misogyny. My point was more that many women just get on with getting round it, by not standing out, snd thus avoid the problems created by misogynists. this would be an easy first step fix for my gf who has lots of things that need help- it is not what i think everyone ought to do.

Ps lizzabadger- we have talked this through and written it down a lot ( except yhe most recent part). I will show her the thread too. So hopefully i am not being underhand!

SC: Fair enough. Maybe a dose of feminism might help her reframe and understand it, and that might help (EG, the people who go on like this are wrong and here's why, and then she can make an informed decision as to whether to conform or object clearly and coherently to suggestions she paint her face and simper.)

SGB, there are many environments where I might agree with you, but, as someone who spends a lot of time in academic environments, I'm not sure this thing about looks is true, there are plenty of middle-aged plainish ladies kicking ass. It is not a world in which looks count a great deal, although social politics do.

But honestly, most successful academic women are not lookers, really they are not. Being blunt is also a characteristic of a lot of academics, although you tend to be allowed to be ruder the higher up the hierarchy you are.

I don't doubt she's met some twatty male bosses along the way, although again, I have had great male and female bosses, although it may be different in a lab. Has she not met anyone at all who would mentor her/keep a look out for her?

sadchap whilst not being able to offer any solutions, just wanted to say that she sounds like an amazing woman from your lovely description and you sound like an absolute gem of a bloke. I really hope you find a way through this. She is not as 'f*ed up as a football bat' she's complex and wonderful. No one chooses depression or ASD, thebfactbthat you love and accept her as she is speaks volumes.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that in the current economic climate, lots of scientists and academics can't get jobs, or if they get jobs they are temporary and badly paid. It took my husband two years to get a job after a short career break and that wasn't due to his looks or social skills, there's 100's of equally well-qualified people going for each job. If I gave up my job tomorrow, I wouldn't find it easy to get another one. My PhD students are all moving abroad, living apart from partners (often in separate countries) or trying new things.

It IS the global economic crisis; I assure you that if it wasn't for that, she would be working as a scientist, where there are plenty of quirky, not that concerned with appearance, possibly people with Aspergers or other habits (I have a great friend at work with a variety of compulsive and eating disorders), as that goes with the territory. I do agree though that getting rejected is very depressing, and as she already has depression, help with that is a good idea (you have had some great sources of help already on this thread).

www.guardian.co.uk/higher-education-network/blog/2012/aug/10/academic-spouses-two-body-problem

Someone posted this on another thread, I just thought it might help you to see that the two-body problem is very standard in academic/science worlds and part of the reason very few women make it to the top, because you have to have one trailing spouse and this is often the woman.

Me and my husband live apart in the week for this reason, and so do many academic couples I know, with and without children.

Mumsy some areas of science are still very sexist - just look at the gender ratio of PhDs compared to professors as a guide, or Lawrence Summer's misogynist comments - this runs right through to the top of organisations, even very good ones. Pleased to see that Harvard faculty responded with a vote of no confidence in him, I expect he was a difficult boss and many people had problems with him!

I am not surprised that people get depressed tbh.