how do I help my unhappy girlfriend?

[sadchap]

She is wonderful, intelligent, inquisitive, brave, driven, kind, talented, gentle, earnest, moral, well-read, funny, an awesome cook, can push herself up mountains... and spends a lot of her life depressed or dysthymic, is easily annoyed by her (slightly mad) family, has mild aspergers (diagnosed), is a bit of a hypochondriac, is quite negative about her career, and is inclined to believe she's a failure at everything.

She really isn't a failure, but is currently perseverating about the fact she's finding it hard to find work, and comparing herself negatively to lots of our friends who have perhaps chosen easier career paths, found partners earlier, had higher salaries, bought houses, had kids, etc. We are scientists, which means contract jobs until your mid-30s and then if you're really lucky a permanent job. I was lucky to get a permanent job a few years ago, but she hasn't, and she knows that she is competing against an ever-younger, ever more-relevantly-educated field, and is feeling she'll never find a job, never be able to buy a house, never have a functional family life.
It isn't helped by the fact she has a few friends who have chosen the same career path (academic science) who are not only really really brilliant, but who have also had very good starts in life (academic establishment rich parents who've known exactly how to nurture their kids' careers).

Her career has been one of spectacular highs and a lot of lows, largely because of the aspergers. Her whole family isn't very social so she spent years at uni learning cues that other people learnt aged 5. She doesn't care much about her appearance, which gets judged by other people, unfairly (that makes them shallow, obviously, but she doesn't understand that that's what they're responding to). She isn't great at reading body language, and can be a bit impetuous (particularly when responding with devastating retribution when someone's said something really stupid). So she does make enemies, and she gets a lot of job interviews but they generally don't translate into jobs.

I'm trying to just be there for her. But she is almost pulling away from me - she's started looking for jobs in other countries, and last night she offered to leave so that I can have kids and a normal life with someone else. She seemed to be afraid that I would resent not having kids later on (we're both 36), because she doesn't really want kids and isn't in a good enough place mentally or financially to have them at the moment.

I don't want someone else! I want a happier life with her! While I would like kids, I'd rather we were both happy and healthy and together - kids would be a bonus, that's all. i don't know what to do. I don't want her to leave, and I've said that - but also if the only way she can find a job is to temporarily move somewhere else, that might be ok if it helps her. As academics we can't really assume we could both have a job in the same place. It's not going to help if I give up my career to be with her somewhere, at least not until she gets a completely tenured stable job, which could take years, and in the current climate, might not happen.

She is so unhappy. What can I do?

I've come here asking for help because there will probably be lots of women about my girlfriend's age here, who have been through similar things. Also because she has discussed Mumsnet with our friends (who have kids) so with luck she may see this?

Sparrow- don't get me wrong, I believe academia to be very sexist, partly because of the working conditions in which it is assumed there will be one main earner e.g. a professor (usually male) with a trailing spouse (usually female, doing a less well paid or part time or not working job). But I don't think it is about looks, all the women in my department are quite plain (apart from psychologists who do tend to be very glamorous).

I'm just trying to reassure the Op that the fault for not gettting a job right now may not lie, at least at the entry level of fellowships/lecturers, with the Op's girlfriend. It's the way things are right now. The OP's girlfriend looking for jobs abroad isn't pulling away, it's what a lot of academics are doing right now. You have to decide if your career is worth living apart.

Now, it may be that for many other reasons, this is not great idea for the Op's girlfriend, as she gets depressed and because socially things are difficult for her. So, living alone could be really difficult, which is why I suggested alternatives to the academic/scientific career.

But, if it is always the man's career that comes first and the woman that follows, she will end up off the career path. I think it's only through discussion of the whole picture (how important is this career path to her? how would she feel doing something else? are they planning on having children? how are they going to get further help for her depression?) that they can decide what to do.

Thankyou all for some extremely helpful replies here.

Mumsyblouse - you're right about the economic crisis making it a bad time to be an academic. I don't think it is entirely her fault that she can't get a job - she has had a difficult start, she is known to be very good (which is why she gets interviews, and good references) but then comes across in an interview as an odd mix of truculent, indifferent and spiky, which is how she looks when she's feeling worried. She also finds it hard to be articulate under pressure, which makes people who don't understand think she's stupid. Obviously that isn't going to compare well to the hundreds of other qualified candidates for the same job.

Re the two-body problem, yes, it is obviously not just us in this situation, and yes it is unfortunate that it ends up working the way it does, usually favouring the man and disfavouring the woman, cumulatively. I think that her living on her own somewhere else really isn't going to help her much, because of the social issues, so ultimately a career change might make more sense - but she should make that decision, not me. I also think that if she doesn't want kids there's no problem, we won't have them.

SolidGoldBrass and Sparrowp: I think the looks point is very much not about simpering to men, which is a technique sometimes applied in university departments that tends to make everyone lose respect for the woman very quickly; it is more about it simply being something relatively easy to change a little bit where she could avoid the cycle of stupid people automatically assuming she's weird and making a point, and then reacting. If anything, those reactions happen more outside university departments than in them. The only point she's making is that ancient jeans and hoodies are more comfortable and easier to pull out of the cupboard in the morning pre-coffee than an ironed shirt etc, for which she is completely correct, but the idiots out there target her for it and batter her self-esteem until she can't face anything. If she could get rid of that constant minor irritation, she would be able to concentrate on more important things, like sorting out her depression.

Lizzabadger, thanks for the tip on the Maudsley, we will have a look.

Sadchap: OK there is a difference between turning up for interview in stained, unwashed, torn clothing becuase you're so and so is your work... and being expected to present an appearance all the time of painted face and uncomfortable clothing that would not be expected of other people just because of what you have between your legs. Your earlier posts suggest that parto o0f her distress is due to family and friend saying to her paint your face and simper and accept that men are more important and need to be deferred to.

I can scrub up quite well, and found that the more interviews I did the better I got at the technique. But totally sympathize with the head going blank under pressure...

I don't know much about it but think there are now some online resources that might help with the depression and with outlook on life. I had a look at one a while back, I think it was called Moodgym? It looked at things like negative beliefs and how to reframe things, and seemed as though it could be helpful for some people... might be worth a look?

My partner has Asperger's, it has a massive impact on his life but a lot of the stress he's under is hard to spot from outside.

You could get an initial assessment, for example here www.asperger-training.com/index.php (should say i'm friends with some of the people there) and www.autism.org.uk can give you a list of counsellors who have knowledge of Asperger's if that does turn out to be relevant.

I know, for example, www.maxineaston.co.uk and myrabiancocounsellinghove.co.uk are very good.

Good luck, Is x

Once again, thanks for the replies. This was clearly the right place to come and ask for help

Isabeller - thanks for the pointer to the potential list of ASD-informed counsellors. She has already been diagnosed, by the local (very active) ASD specialist unit. Just as with counsellors, careers counsellors etc - she is way too functional for them to really feel they should use their resources on her, so beyond the initial diagnisis, they have offered nothing other than going back to her GP with a letter to say she probably needed just some non-specialist counselling.

Solidgoldbrass - I wasn't expressing myself well there, sorry. Yes, the distress is largely from our family members picking on her about her appearance, and she has a good grasp of why they're wrong to pick and why they're wrong in the sense of not having to dress for the eyes of others. I do what I can to dampen down the (to some degree well-intentioned) picky "helpful" comments, though of course mothers and sisters then just say I am a clueless man and of course I wouldn't understand.

What is lacking in GF's interpretation is nuance about appearance and manner(s) issue. She feels observed and embattled, understandably, and so spends a lot of time at work standing out a mile because she looks extremely scruffy and truculent (she often gets taken for some academic's teenage daughter). What I have been trying to say is not that she should get done up in suits and makeup every day, nor that she should simper and fawn, just that maybe stepping up the appearance/manner to what she manages for interviews, for every day, might mean that she would get noticed less generally, and people might feel a bit more like she is one of their group. She has a few weeks left in her job and could maybe practise in those few weeks.

So instead of the grubby trainers, socks with holes, jeans that are almost see-through with age and the hoody that has holes in the elbows and unbrushed (clean) hair that looks dirty and as though it's been chopped unceremoniously with kitchen scissors - the interview jumper and trousers, or newer jeans, and clean shoes, and brushed, clean-looking hair that's been cut by someone else.

Likewise, she knows at interviews to smile more, hang back a bit before commenting, ask others intelligent but non-threatening questions. She usually does that part of interviews well (I have colleagues who've interviewed her, with whom I've discussed all this), but the relaxed "just being" gets paralysed by fear in the interview proper, and she doesn't usually feel like presenting the "just being" persona on a day to day basis. By "just being" I mean as opposed to the day to day "being demonstrably cleverer/more sensible/braver/less hung up on silly things/ etc" which is where she comes across as spiky or haughty, and again, gets noticed where hanging back a bit could just make life easier.

Sorry - I think I'm now sounding like I'm obsessed with her appearance. I'm just trying to explain it, and i can't talk about it in real life really or I'll sound like i'm telling her what to wear and how to behave... which I wouldn't do until I had found an appropriately constructive and gentle way of saying it, since she really doesn't need me picking on her too.

I'm just trying to work out how to make her fit in to the extent that she can have normal conversations with workmates and not have this constant barrier going up. Many of the workmates are pretty ordinary nice people who think she's preoccupied with work, unsociable and a bit unfriendly... when she's preoccupied with work, unsociable, but desperately unhappy about being picked on/ ignored/ passed over, to the extent she doesn't notice people being friendly.

OK, yes, definitely she needs to wear clothes that are clean and not torn; that's a standard of dress that pretty much applies across the board - and it's not necessary to spend a fortune to do that. Nor does it involve a huge amount of unnecessary effort - I think you are right that dressing in clothes that are ripped/falling to bits/stained is going to attract too much negative attention.

Dear sadchap

You sound a lovely and very considerate person. My DH is very understanding and tolerant - luckily he also didnt want to have children. I don't have many friends due to unable to do small talk and social oiling of wheels.

How is she with structure versus non-structure? I have similar issues to your gf interacting with people and also re appearance.
Part of my coping strategy is structure e.g. planning on Sunday what I'm going to wear for the week, and even laying it out so I don't get stressed/overwhelmed with not knowing what to wear in the morning and picking something out of the heap instead.
The not interrupting and 'take down' is still really difficult and I guess now I know that it does upset people and put them off. It makes it worse knowing you "shouldn't" be doing something that every fibre of your being says is right.

I can't offer any easy answers, have managed to be fairly successful in a scientific career, non-academic (NHS) so perhaps a move this way might help?

Sounds trite but could you book her an appointment with a personal (clothes) shopper? John Lewis do a good service and you could go with too. She could emerge with a few interchangeable items that are smart but easy to wear and wash. She could view them as her "work uniform" and could place them on one side of the wardrobe. The very scruffy stuff could be kept for weekends only.

I think the JL person would happily hand her over to a make-up person. A quick slick of make up could easily take less than 5 mins in the morning. Again she could think of it as her work armour which may even provide comfort or at least amunition. Sometimes it is worth conforming a little for a quiet life.

pippop1 - I think one step at a time will be a good idea, so perhaps just trying to wear what she already has for the moment - suggestions of makeup are always met with misery here - but eventually those ideas sound sensible

Belalugosi - sorting clothes out on a sunday sounds like a good way round the morning "oh god"/ "oh sod it" feeling, definitely. I think we can start doing that one.

Are there any HR people on here anywhere would could advise what would happen if you put on a job application "yes I am disabled, I have ASD, i need special adjustments/ consideration for the interview"? She has never dared tick the "disabled" box before (at least we know that the guaranteed interview scheme is not the reason she's getting interviews), but is wondering if it could help in a sufficiently enlightened institution - i.e. a two ticks employer. I honestly can't tell - the spectrum of understanding of disability is so wide... I still think it would be dangerous, since her area of biology isn't anything to do with psych, so she may well get interviewed by ignorant academics who think they "know" all about ASD and why it makes her unsuitable for the job.

If your girlfriend was posting here, what do you think she would say the problems are?

Re guaranteed interview scheme. IME as an interviewer it is of limited value in this situation. It will get you to interview, but she's doing that anyway. It's a reasonable scheme to ensure people with disabilities get interview practice, and are not summarily overlooked. You ask if it would help in an enlightened institution? It may help to disclose to a supportive line manager once in situ. I would be surprised if it would act as a positive in terms of getting the job.

The equal opps bit of an application form is usually removed and kept by HR, isn't seen by the interviewer, and only comes into play once someone is appointed, in my experience. The idea is that interviewers can't use it to be prejudiced against someone with a disability (even if HR have put the applicant on the interview list through a guarantee scheme). HR keep it for their stats, and it can be used by the applicant to ensure reasonable adjustments are put in place once they're in the job. So not much help at interview, I don't think.

Leave the makeup out, it's not necessary. Bear in mind that it's possible (am not an expert) that to someone with ASD the feeling of makeup on the face might be really unpleasant and uncomfortable.
But clean, neat clothes genuinely are a requirement for work. They don't have to be expensive, they don'[t have to be high fashion, they don't have to be uncomfortable, but they do need to be intact and free from stains.

But that doesn't address your suggestion of requesting reasonable adjustments at interview, does it.....

She may find there are more opportunities in industry than academia at the moment. I work in R&D and we have been doing a fair bit of recruitment, and I have also been approached by other companies offering vacancies. Depends on field of course.

I have no idea about the legal situation, and only have experience of my employer, but we have a man with autism who works in our lab. He was very up front about it and I believe it was discussed in interview. Everybody knows so that people can understand, and HR have helped with some reading materials for the rest of the team. I guess different organisations would handle differently, but in our case it isn't a blocker. It also means there are certain situations we wouldn't put that person in. I think in science generally you encounter all sorts of personalities and behaviours and where I work it's been fairly accepted.

I can relate a bit to this, although I don't have any kind of ASD, but bear with me. Thanks to growing up in a completely mad family, I started off my teens a bit like your girlfriend -- messy/inappropriate clothing, not really any sense of how to have proper conversations/interactions with people, etc. I was bullied and teased and cried every night my first year of secondary school.

Then, I started learning. I studied other people and learned how to behave like 'normal' people, how to dress better and fit in a bit more. It was too late to salvage my reputation but it meant I could go off to uni and finally be a bit more 'normal' there, have friends and so on.

BUT this whole process took a lot of energy and time and provoked a LOT of anxiety throughout. I can't imagine how much harder it would have been had I also had a disorder that interfered with social cues, and depression that sapped my energy and optimism.

So while it may seem like just a few easy steps for your girlfriend to change a few things about her, I think you need to appreciate that it's actually a huge change you are suggesting for her, and change is hard. It's not just changing a few habits, it's changing an entire mental outlook.

For this reason, I think specialised counseling is a good idea. Whatever it costs, the potential payoff is worth it (especially if it helps her get a new job).

My own feeling, having read what you have said, is that she is still very depressed, hostile to the world, and her appearance is just an outward manifestation of this. If she were not depressed, then wearing ordinary clean clothes (bought from literally anywhere) would seem normal. Her family are probably not being mean whatsoever, they see what we all would see if we saw someone with wild hair, dirty trainers and holes in their clothes. But this is not about clothes, it's about displaying her defiance of convention and also her depression in a very visible way, which in turn is making her more unhappy and isolated.

I don't think altering her clothes will fix this, I would echo the suggestions to find a specialist counsellor, I think talking to someone who can appreciate her mind-set and work on that is the best way forward. Everything else is window-dressing (because no one is going to take one someone whose default is truculant/intellectual superiority, even if it is an act and not her real self).

What I guess I'm trying to say is that her clothes are making a statement, it's not that they acidentally got holey, I have worn the same clothes for years but they aren't covered in holes or dirty looking. My husband wears t-shirt and jeans to work and has done for years. But, it's clean, functional clothing. Your gf's choices are not an accident of simply not caring about clothes (many academics don't, they are not noted for looking smart or suitable and many wear jeans), but a statement. You can't ask her to stop making that statement until she works out what else she wants to say; this is her defensive position that gives her comfort.

I've now read dreamingbohemian's post and realised I said exactly the same thing, doh!

I second the idea of looking for work in industry, not just academia. Also NHS, scientific journal writing/editing/consultancy??

Relatively speaking, there should be a reasonable range of options for someone w such a scientific background.

On the child front, if you want children, now, ironically, may be a good time. Age-wise it would be sensible and for many mothers, including me, it does bring a renewed sense of purpose- I started retraining while on maternity leave and changed sectors/roles completely 3 months later!

Not easy, but felt so driven to escape what I had been doing (in academia!) and to find satisfying, more stable and better paid work, that I was firing on all cylinders. Not a state I'd been in prior to having kids. Just a thought based on my own experience.

Mumsy you said it so much more eloquently!

I think that's a great point, she can't just stop 'making a statement' she needs a different way of expressing things.

And it's very true that even negative or self-destructive behaviour can feel comforting, when that's what you're used to.

CBT would normally be great for addressing this but I don't know how effective it is if you have Asperger's.

OP, I have to ask why she continues to go back to her family to hear the negative things they have to say about her, despite knowing about her aspergers. I wonder how she will ever feel positive about herself if the people who are meant to understand and love her unconditionally can be so cruel. Thank God she has you for support.

I think I would be putting some distance between me and them, if I was her (or at least letting them know that their negativity is unacceptable and should stop).

Could she come clean with a senior person within her field and talk about how her aspergers affects her day to day interaction, so that the message is 'out there' that she has aspergers and that these are the things she finds difficult. I think it needs to be out in the open and a disability and treated as such.