He is threatening to take our son

[DoubleYew]

`Have namechanged as he knows I come on here.

He is saying he is just going to come and take him. Ds is just 2, never had overnight contact. Father has chosen to see him twice in a month both times brought him back early as he was upset. ds very upset after these visits.

He had a nervous breakdown last year, is suicidle, self harming. He can't seem to put ds needs first, tells me he is going to introduce him to his new girlfriend (of 6 wks) tomorrow. I said I ts not appropriate so soon, he needs to settle in regular contact. Ended in a big row, saying he can do what he wants and will come and take him, I can't stop him.

He still has a key as won't give it back. Phoned police they said its an offense for me to stop him coming in. We live in country, no buses tomorrow so I can't go anywhere. Neighbour will be at work, don't have anyone else nearby.

No answer from social work. Already have contact with family mediation but won't be in til monday now.

What can I do?

Eh? Who is getting at you? Nobody.

". The police have better things to do than issue orders for people to enter their ex-MIL's houses. "

I took this as I am wasting police time ?

Maybe am being oversensitive sorry.

no no, I think that post meant that you should go ahead with making your place secure without worrying too much about the police supporting your ex to gain entry.
really, everyone here is on your side.

The post meant Fort Knox your home, not a get at you - or at least that's how I read it . I know you are remotely situated, but do you have neighbours you can call on in an emergency or friends who can put you up if need be?

Did he turn up today? It must be like walking on eggshells not knowing when he will appear. Hopefully you will get things sorted legally that will reduce that likelihood.

I read that as reassuring you it is very unlikely that the police would want to persue helping him get access into the house.

No one on here is getting at you, they are all trying to help.

Yes sorry I am a fuckwit. I mis read it as Not to enter... I am a little paranoid right now. I apologise for over-reacting.

No he's never turned up or contacted me, happily. Long may that continue.

Neighbours are very nice and know the situation. They came over this afternoon to help with some stuff. Police were helpful too, they are going to pay him a visit.

Also it sounds to me (I am not a lawyer and don't know anything about Scottish law) that the law that has been quoted to you suggesting this man has a right to enter your mother's home because he once lived there, is a law designed to protect people from being thrown out of their homes without notice - and that it won't be applied to a man who has not lived in the house in question for two years and who has a place of residence elsewhere. So the police will not assist this man to force an entry into your home without a court order, which he wouldn't get.

Police recommended Shelter website (this from Scottish one):

"I've moved out - can I move back in again?

I'm married or in a civil partnership

If you've left the family home (for example, if you've gone to stay in a refuge or with family or friends), you have the right to move back in again, along with any children or grandchildren you look after.

If your partner doesn't want you to return then you can go to the court for an order to enforce your occupancy rights. This will allow you to move back in. However, you do have the right to force your way back in without a court order. If you need to do this (for example, if you need to collect furniture or belongings) it's best to ask the police to come with you, to prevent things getting out of hand.

If you moved out on or after the 4 May 2006 then your right to return to and live in the home will only last for two years. However, you will only lose your rights if, during the two-year period, you haven't lived with your partner or in the family home.

You will also lose your right to live in the home if:
you give up ('renounce') your rights to live there, or
you get divorced or dissolve your civil partnership."

He only moved out 10 months ago, the police said he had rights for up to two years after he moves out, that is what I meant before. This is why I need to get the divorce going so he can state that he gives up his (theoretical) right to live here. But the fact that he has a new tenancy and a new relationship will make it harder from him to assert any right to live here.

I think its only an offence if I stop him coming in, so if I change the locks and he doesn't turn up (which he hasn't so far) who is to know?

Police also said it would help if my mum and I signed an agreement that as of today as far as she is concerned only me and ds live here, no-one else can without her permission.

The real issue is ds (I actually don't think he wants to come here, its about getting to ds) but police have told me not to let him have ds until they have consulted with mental health team and ss. That could mean supervised contact. I hope it gives him a kick up the arse to realise ds is not a possession that he can do whatever he wants with.

Getr those locks changed for your safety & peace of mind.

We all know it's illegal IF the ex is on the mortgage /tenancy agreement but no judge will query the genuine motives behind your actions.

What's the very worst thing that could happen

If he ever shows up with the police to enter the property, at least he won't be likely to do anything.

You still have the right to deny him entry and let him go to court to argue his case.

The police don't enforce people's wishes, only court orders.

Yes that was the impression I got from the police's second visit, it was highly unlikely to be a problem in reality. They had changed their tune a bit after speaking to their sergeant.

Been on the phone to CAB etc. Very tricky to get a legal aid solicitor here so Women's Aid are going to phone back with recommendations for someone experienced in this kind of thing. If I get legal aid of course. They also said they can look after ds while I go to appointments, phew.

Men with a van full of tools are also on their way to the house.

Thank you so much for all your support and advice, by the way. Sorry I have been a bit loopy but you have all really helped me keep my nerve that I am doing the right thing for ds.

Just a thought

Could your mum -as landlord--change the locks and as you haven't seen him you haven't been able to give him a key..

Well what has happened is the door and lock/ handle are water damaged and have not been working properly for a while. We (my mum and I) had actually mentioned it to a local builder a few weeks ago while he was doing something else for us. The neighbour came over to look at it and broke the lock try to fix it this weekend. . So it all needs to be replaced today and in the meantime the door is bolted from the inside as we have strong winds here, plus a toddler who likes to wander off.

Funny how these things happen at the right time. I'm very forgetful at the moment due to sleep deprivation so who knows where I'll put those extra keys. Anyway he's got his own place, why does he need a key for here?

That is pretty reasonable isn't it?

Thats one less chore getting the door fixed. Its very windy here in scotland today. You cant have the door flying open & your ds going for a walk in the horrible weather.

Didnt your ds drop your keys dwn a drain so u are using the spare set.

Hello DY
Your ex has really 'trained' you to believe everything he says is law in some respects hasn't he. I was exactly the same as you once. I was so scared of his threats because of the way he was.
But you need to stop thinking he has any rights over your head. There is absolutely no need for you to come up with explanations about why he shouldn't get spare keys to what is not his home/house. Really, change your own mindset to automatically think he is wrong and to double check everything he tells you. It's hard to start with and then you will get to my stage and automatically laugh everythime he opens his mouth.
In fact when he rings and you realise it is him just repeat 'Please email me with any quetstions regarding ds Bye' and put the phone down.
Don't engage and phone the police if he turns up and becomes obnoxious.

Good luck and hope you've had a good day

He's an ex-tenant. Ex-tenants don't get keep keys to their former rentals, nor to they get a key when the landlord changes the locks.

Hope solicitor appt goes well re the access arrangements re ds.

Hi op.

Just want to wish you the best of luck. Really tough situation your in.

Take care of yourself&your ds.

Change the locks, do not give him a key, he has no need of one, do you have a key to his house?

'If your partner doesn't want you to return then you can go to the court for an order to enforce your occupancy rights. This will allow you to move back in. However, you do have the right to force your way back in without a court order. If you need to do this (for example, if you need to collect furniture or belongings) it's best to ask the police to come with you, to prevent things getting out of hand.'

So if you don't want him in the house, he needs to go to court to get an order to gain entry. And the court need to consider his case and decide whether he has any legal right to enter. So he has no automatic right to enter whenever he wants. That is good.

If the police do accompany someone to carry out a court order, they are only doing so in the capacity of preventing a breach of the peace - not taking sides. You need to remember that.

You sound much stronger now - it sounds like your exP enjoys making empty threats that have no real basis in law, but that he thinks they will scare you into submission.

Remember all the time, he is full of shit. He doesn't live in your house, he doesn't pay the mortgage on it, he is not named on the rental agreement so it is not his home. The law you have described is a law designed to allow abuse victims to get back into their homes to collect their possessions not a legal entitlement of abusers to force their way back in and attack the XP who evicted them.
LOCK HIM OUT. Do not admit him to your house. Ever. He has no rights at all to enter. Inform him via email that you will only deal with him via email and only about access to DC, and that he will be hearing from your solicitor. And then igonore texts, put the phone down on him, shut the door in his face it's OK to do all of these things.

Thanks everyone. I'm feeling a lot better. He's not been in touch - he is basically a coward so I think police visit will have scared him. Also my step father is well enough to be transferred back to his home country to have his treatment there, so that is really good news.

Plus I fell asleep getting ds to sleep last night so I actually had a bit of a rest. We woke up to all the lights etc left on this morning, which is a bit slovenly.

I haven't been able to speak to a solicitor yet (bloody bank holiday) but CAB think that as we never had a tenancy agreement with my mum, neither of us have any rights to be in the house. Thankfully my mum actually likes me so isn't going to bar me from here. I know you all think I'm ridiculous to worry about what the police said but I just don't want to do anything wrong to give him any ammunition if he does get legal advice and start being even more difficult. The more I can show I am being reasonable and he is not, the better I think.

But yes I am absolutely planning to say email only, only about ds, bog off etc. I have been trying to do this beforehand but he basically doesn't care and does what he wants. Police said if it gets worse I can apply for a non-harrasment order, which I can't imagine he'd enjoy.

Right need to go and update the twatty behaviour diary and do some more phoning.

Remember that the police can be full of shit too.

I once had a problem with ex trying to get the car keys off me and the two male police officers who attended said that the car belonged to both, so there was nothing they could do.
Whereas, in fact, by law here, as the car is in my name, it's mine and he had no claim over it. (only possibly financially, but not for use)
The two police officers should really have booked him then.

And don't just tell him it's e-mail/text only.
Enforce it.

Do not answer phone calls and do not answer the door. If he persists, call the police for harassment.