A confusing and horrible mess

[JOW87]

It is very difficult to know where to begin so everything will make sense.
I will start at the event which has caused the horrible mess then fill in the details etc from before and after then.
On Saturday night on the way home from a night out my mum told my dad that she didn?t want to be with him anymore and he went ballistic and choked her until she passed out.
In the few weeks before this has happened my mum has started to get distant with all of us and saying nasty and upsetting things to my dad.
On his part he has grown over the last few months from being a very placid man into having bouts of anger and road rage totally out of proportion for what was involved.
She works in a local workers club four times a week and when not working dad will also go in there but he has been becoming more unhappy about going in over the last few months due to the type of people mum has gotten very friendly with, i.e., young mothers who drink all day with their children sat in the pushchair, parents who have 13 year olds sat in there at one in the morning while they drink, glasses of whiskey at 10 in the morning every morning, etc. The sort of people she would not normally give the time of day to.
Dad hates them and we have all seen the change in her over the last few weeks as she has become friendlier with them and makes up any excuse to stay in the club.
One thing which I do have to point out is that with his support over the last 18 months she has gone from size 24 to nearly size 14 and she does look good for it.
When she told him that she didn?t want to be with him anymore, he asked her if it was because of her weight loss and she thought she could do better and she told him that she could do far better than something like him. He says he cannot remember what he did and has no memory of what happened until he was picked up walking along in the middle of a dual carriageway by the police trying to get hit by a lorry.
He has been charged with assault by beating and has to wait a few weeks until it goes to court.
He went to the doctors on Tuesday to get anger management and he has bad depression and has apparently had it for at least six months which has been causing his anger.
We know mum is going through a depression, she gets the same thing every five to seven years where she wants none of us and to be single and no one means anything to her. Everything and everyone she would at any other time value and love is rejected.
They have been married 25 years next month and over all that time they have been a very loving couple. They never call themselves husband and wife; they are soul mates and best friends. And the marriage has always been a partnership. They have had their arguments and a few times have not talked for a few days but that?s only human. But there has never been any violence of any sort before.
She is staying with our Nan while he is at the house and she says everything is over, he cant talk to her due to bail conditions but we can all see its not mum talking its her depression. I can understand how she is feeling at the moment with dad but she is also being like it with everyone. Saying she has no one in her life now which isn?t true.
Dad is devastated by his actions; it has broken him to a shadow of what he was. A solicitor phoned up this morning to offer him a defence solicitor and he has told them to p**s off as they wont be needed as he is pleading guilty and will take whatever is given to him for what he did.
My question is this, should my sister and I with the rest of the family support them both to try reconciliation?
As I said earlier, they are truly soul mates. As a daughter it is embarrassing walking around with them as they act like teenagers in love where ever we go. They are both good parents and have brought us up to know right from wrong. Dad know what he did was wrong and it is destroying him, mum wants nothing further to do with him. Should they just part or should we get them mentally stable first so they can decide with clear minds?

But what is the "proper place"? That's what I'm worried about, that you think a "proper place" is to even consider going back to someone who strangled her. It isn't right to even consider that is it?

People with depression do get frogmarched to the doctors and they get sectioned under the mental health act largely because they can't see they are ill. It sounds to me that your dad has had recurring mental health problems over the years and it does sound like he is having some kind of breakdown. Severe depression can make people have psychosis and sounds very much like this has happened. Your mum sounds like she as bi polar depression which has periods of very low times with episodes of manic behaviour. People can often attach themselves to people who aren't good for them, spend money etc. you can't sort this out for them but you can help them to get better with their mental health issues. I have worked in this field and I have seen how depression can change people. You can't fix the relationship but you can try and help your parents to get the correct treatment that they need. Your dad in particular sounds like needs treatment as soon a possible.

Im glad JOW87 that this is the case for her.

But ask yourself if you would want to stay with a man that has just strangled you because he thinks you're ill again? I would never want to set eyes on that person ever again let alone be in the same room as them.

I believe the proper place is for her to decide when she is well.
He is getting treatment and is on medication which is making him be like a zombie at times he is that ill. At the moment he would agree to anything and not know what it was.
Mum does need help for her illness and what happened but refuses help for both from anyone.
I would rather have them apart at the moment and both get well then make the choice than do it while both of them are ill and maybe regret it down the line.

This sounds like a devastating situation for you to be in the middle of. I do agree completely with Offred however, that there is no way that your mum should consider, for a split second, going back to a man who strangled her until she became unconcious.
It doesn't sound as if anyone is saying that to her, so I'm not surprised she is depressed, resorting to unchallenging company/ and possibly drinking herself.
Your mum needs unconditional support here.
I also agree that it is impossible to know the dynamics of a relationship, but it is possible from what you say, that life has been harder than you think for your mum.

MissFaversam, can I suggest you read the initial post again? It wasn't because of thinking she was ill he attacked her, but because of what she said to him. When she has been like this before she has said some very nasty and evil things to him, even it public.

When she has been like this before she has said some very nasty and evil things to him, even it public

I have read your post JOW. You stated that "when she has been like this before" as in when ill.

It matters not what the hell she said to him anyway, he tried to frigging strangle her.

The strangling till she passed out is a big issue, and I wouldnt blame her if she decided not to go through that again, especially if she had been intimating that the realationship is over.

I think it is important not to take sides. Be there for both of them, support them and talk to them, but dont judge and dont ask them to reconcile. Accept their decision(s) to move on. They are both adult enough to make their choices. Dont think one person is more to blame than the other. This is their problem to sort out and if you take sides, it will only harm your relationship with the other person.

Im so sorry that it has come to this, but your mum and dad moving on may be a positive step for both of them. If they are soul mates, then they will reconcile on their own.

But she didn't get sectioned, she came back saying he was right by the OP's account. Despite being repeatedly taken by him she is not getting diagnosed or treated or sectioned or if she is this is not what the op had chosen to describe but that when she is in her wrong mind she says nasty things about him, he makes her go to the doctor and when she comes back she is in her right mind again because she has stopped saying nasty things about him. Yes people who are severely depressed can be sectioned but not for saying nasty things to their husbands, for being a real and present danger to themselves or others.

There isn't a decision to be made though is there? The fact you think someone can make a rational choice to stay with someone who strangled them until they passed out is the biggest reason I worry about abuse.

What "evil things" does she say?

" All I want is for both of them to be in the proper place before they make life changing decisions."

Wherever you think the 'proper place' is, you cannot get them there. I'm sorry to say, but you have no control at all as to how this pans out. That's what hurts.

Whether or not your mum is ill is, to some extent, neither here nor there. She does not want to be with your dad- it's good to hear you say that they may need to be apart, I agree with you.

Your mother is in danger OP. Your father could have killed her. Doesn't matter what she said to him or what her MH status. I'd say to do everything you can to avoid them being together for the time being.

I'm off to work now. TY all.

" All I want is for both of them to be in the proper place before they make life changing decisions."

In saying this, you clearly think your mum needs to think further about whether to leave your dad. But he strangled her until she became unconcious. When he did that, the relationship was over. No-one should EVER stay with someone who does that. Is your dad saying your mum should leave him? Because if he is really facing up to what happened, he will understand there will be no going back for her. There is never an excuse for trying to kill someone.

You said in your first post there had never been any violence. Then you found out there had been. It doesn't necessarily mean there was further violence during their relationship. But it does mean you really don't know. Is anyone able to talk to your mum, and really just listen to what she is saying at the moment?

You are very young. This must be almost impossible for you to cope with. If I were you I would go to your GP and see if you can get some couselling or support for yourself.

'If it had mum would have walked. She is a strong person and would not tolerate it from him or anyone.'

And this is what she has done this time- and yet you are saying she needs to be brought to her senses?
Whatever their relationship- your Mum could now be dead and your Dad doing a long stretch for manslaughter- for that reason alone I think it would be safer for everyone involved if they were apart.

Just out of interest- how did you find out about the strangling incident? Who told you? Or were you there?

Personally I think the assault which nearly killed your mother means it is too far gone to salvage. It would be a bit like your mother getting back with your dad after he had stabbed her 10 times and put her in hospital for a week. Its a turning point.

It would be a decision for them to make, and I think your mum probably has made the right decision.

And it isnt weak people who stay in abusive relationships, you normally have to be a very strong person to tolerate it and even stronger to leave. That she is strong does not mean she hasn't been abused. She may not have been but It is a possibility you need to at least acknowledge and consider I think.

He strangled your Motjer until she was unconscious she nearly died!
Just pls think seriously what that must feel like for another human being. I don't care what happend in the past or your fathers history. It must have felt very close to Murdering someone and he is a very dangerous man. Let your mother do what she pleases and don't judge her for it.

I?ve just spent the last two hours talking to my mum while she is at Nans. I asked her about dad attacking her before and now and she told me that they have been the only two instances when it has ever happened. She has no reason to lie to me; she is safe and never has to see him again if she doesn?t want to. She said he?d always been a loving and caring husband and even when recovering from his PTSD he was never violent towards her.
But what worried me was that it wasn?t my mum sitting there. It was a different person and my Nan has been in tears with some of the things she has been saying to her. It?s been changing for weeks but is starting to scare me now.
I came on here to see what people though and there seems to be two types of people. Those who only see black and white and those who see shades of grey.

Fucked up, hysterical, stupid, immature, erratic, trouble maker...

Just a few of the things that were said to me about me when I emerged from a horribly abusive relationship. And this was from my nearest and dearest.

When I hear/read about a situation between 2 people I try to picture the story from both perspectives.

From your Dad's perspective: Wife has changed, so gets strangles her until she is almost dead. No, I'm sorry I can't relate to that; I can't believe that to be the actions of a sane or non-abusive person.

From your Mum's perspective: Up and down over the years, new job, new confidence, the discovery that the people she once judged are actually human beings and that's ok, almost murdered by husband, children want her to return to live with and share a bed with the man who almost and possibly tried to murder her. Your Mum's biggest threat is within her marriage, it could be life threatening.

Whatever your perception of your Mum's mental state, it is what it is. Right now there is likely to be an element of post-trauma, following life threatening domestic violence.

Be kind to your Mum please?

When it comes to life threatening violence I see situations in black and white.

I am not posting on here anymore. For the sake of getting sensible advice from people like pancake flipper and the trackisback I have many which is just men hating paranoia. The world isn't made of just black and white so if thats all you can see don't try to give advice to others!

Hi OP, this sounds like such a difficult thing to go through for you. Does your Mum have a diagnosis?

Lots of people on here are assuming that your Mum is the way she is because of her relationship. Of course there are shades of grey. That's one of the possibilities and another is that she has a mental health illness that leads her to be depressed sometimes and out of character at others where rational judgement deserts her.

I am taking you at face value from what you have seen of their relationship over the years, in which case your Dad has had a breakdown rather than this being a pattern. If this is the case, no, I don't think you push for any reconciliation, because, if he has broken down again, there could be a next time, and if your Mum continues to have episodes, next time he could kill her and next time he may step in front of that lorry.

Sounds like they both need looking after, that's not something you can take on to your shoulders, you would do best right now perhaps to find support groups for families of those with mental illness so you can share with others who have had to go through the difficulty. You local mental health service, if it is a good one, may organise family support groups, do look into it. The charity MIND might be able to help you in finding support too.

Having a Mum with a chronic mental health condition, if this is the case of why she has had these episodes in her life, is not easy. When you don't suffer from depression or manic episodes etc., it takes a lot of understanding to realise that the person is not doing these hurtful things on purpose, that they are out of control, just as if they were full of the symptoms of the worse flu ever. We know that when Mum has flu, it's not her fault, it is so hard to get our heads around that when it is mental health. Try not to be angry with your Mum although it is important to acknowledge how sad it makes you and how difficult it is. Sounds like you want to protect your Dad because he has been there for you and more steady in your life. You cannot and must not try to control either of them.