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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A confusing and horrible mess

102 replies

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 02:10

It is very difficult to know where to begin so everything will make sense.
I will start at the event which has caused the horrible mess then fill in the details etc from before and after then.
On Saturday night on the way home from a night out my mum told my dad that she didn?t want to be with him anymore and he went ballistic and choked her until she passed out.
In the few weeks before this has happened my mum has started to get distant with all of us and saying nasty and upsetting things to my dad.
On his part he has grown over the last few months from being a very placid man into having bouts of anger and road rage totally out of proportion for what was involved.
She works in a local workers club four times a week and when not working dad will also go in there but he has been becoming more unhappy about going in over the last few months due to the type of people mum has gotten very friendly with, i.e., young mothers who drink all day with their children sat in the pushchair, parents who have 13 year olds sat in there at one in the morning while they drink, glasses of whiskey at 10 in the morning every morning, etc. The sort of people she would not normally give the time of day to.
Dad hates them and we have all seen the change in her over the last few weeks as she has become friendlier with them and makes up any excuse to stay in the club.
One thing which I do have to point out is that with his support over the last 18 months she has gone from size 24 to nearly size 14 and she does look good for it.
When she told him that she didn?t want to be with him anymore, he asked her if it was because of her weight loss and she thought she could do better and she told him that she could do far better than something like him. He says he cannot remember what he did and has no memory of what happened until he was picked up walking along in the middle of a dual carriageway by the police trying to get hit by a lorry.
He has been charged with assault by beating and has to wait a few weeks until it goes to court.
He went to the doctors on Tuesday to get anger management and he has bad depression and has apparently had it for at least six months which has been causing his anger.
We know mum is going through a depression, she gets the same thing every five to seven years where she wants none of us and to be single and no one means anything to her. Everything and everyone she would at any other time value and love is rejected.
They have been married 25 years next month and over all that time they have been a very loving couple. They never call themselves husband and wife; they are soul mates and best friends. And the marriage has always been a partnership. They have had their arguments and a few times have not talked for a few days but that?s only human. But there has never been any violence of any sort before.
She is staying with our Nan while he is at the house and she says everything is over, he cant talk to her due to bail conditions but we can all see its not mum talking its her depression. I can understand how she is feeling at the moment with dad but she is also being like it with everyone. Saying she has no one in her life now which isn?t true.
Dad is devastated by his actions; it has broken him to a shadow of what he was. A solicitor phoned up this morning to offer him a defence solicitor and he has told them to p**s off as they wont be needed as he is pleading guilty and will take whatever is given to him for what he did.
My question is this, should my sister and I with the rest of the family support them both to try reconciliation?
As I said earlier, they are truly soul mates. As a daughter it is embarrassing walking around with them as they act like teenagers in love where ever we go. They are both good parents and have brought us up to know right from wrong. Dad know what he did was wrong and it is destroying him, mum wants nothing further to do with him. Should they just part or should we get them mentally stable first so they can decide with clear minds?

OP posts:
JOW87 · 17/08/2012 12:29

ohGood, thank you for the advice and I will go onto those links because as you say some people do seem to have their own agenda on here.
One last thing though, my younger sister who is 14 is going to a party Saturday night. Mum told her she could take a bottle of vodka from the cupboard with her if she wanted. My properly thinking mum would never allow something like that.

OP posts:
tethersend · 17/08/2012 12:29

Yes, your mum may be depressed.

Yes, your mum may be hanging around with some awful people who are no good for her.

But these things do not mean that she does not mean it when she says that she doesn't want to be with the man who strangled her.

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 12:34

All I want is for both of them to be in a fit mental state before any final decision is made. Pancakeflipper has made one of the most sensible answers to my initial post and for that I thank them.

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MissFaversam · 17/08/2012 12:37

Both of them need to stay apart at the very least at the moment and sorry to bang on about things but this is not the first time he's laid his hands on your mum is it? Didn't he do it at the beginning of their relationship?

Offred · 17/08/2012 12:37

Well done ohgood! FFS what possible agenda could strangers on an Internet forum have?!

Anyway the Samaritans is a good plan.

CinnabarRed · 17/08/2012 12:41

"All I want is for both of them to be in a fit mental state before any final decision is made"

My advice would be to hold that in your mind. Offer whatever support you think is appropriate to both of them as individuals, but keep out of their relationship.

Offred · 17/08/2012 12:42

Yes it is pancake flipper but there is at least one other incident of violence and evidence of controlling behaviour and whether or not someone is a horrible person is immaterial. If you strangle your partner you do not ever reconcile. FWIW I don't believe in the stereotype of "evil people". Doesn't mean you stay with someone who hits you, tries to control who you are friends with and strangles you.

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 12:44

They are staying apart at the moment and yes he did hit her once before. 25 years ago when he had undiagnosed PTSD. He had seen his best friend blown up in front of him. He got treatment and it has never happened again. If it had mum would have walked. She is a strong person and would not tolerate it from him or anyone.

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Offred · 17/08/2012 12:45

I don't think you need to be in a "fit mental state" to decide not to go back to someone who strangled you either. I'd also be really concerned that actually in the past it has been your DF who has dictated when your mum is or isn't in a "fit mental state".

MissFaversam · 17/08/2012 12:47

OP, you seem to be strongly siding with your father here which isn't fair is it? I honestly think you should stay out of it now as your judgement will always be bias and that will not help your mum.

I feel that your mum has been stiffled by all, hence pandora's box being blown open.

Let HER decide her fate and what she wants to do about HER marriage.

Offred · 17/08/2012 12:48

Yes I walked when my ex hit me too. I stayed throughout the controlling, emotional, psychological, financial and sexual abuse. I am not and have never said this is what is going on and just that it has the hallmarks of that and you would be wise to understand this and get out from in between them and stop any thoughts of "encouraging" reconciliation.

Offred · 17/08/2012 12:54

And my family and friends sided with his carefully constructed version of events too. And no I don't think my ex is a monster, he had a terrible childhood but that's no excuse for what he did to me. The split has been good for both of us, his life is more together than it ever has been right now. The relationship was toxic.

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 12:58

Offred, if mum wasn't ill she would not have anything to do with people like that. All her other friends she has disowned for these people. That is the point I'm trying to make.

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Mumsyblouse · 17/08/2012 13:05

I am not going to comment on the oither aspects of this awful mess, except to say keep out of your parents marriage. My parents had a messy divorce and it tends to drag everyone down with it if you don't keep out of it. It doesn't matter who is depressed/what their reasons are, you never know the truth of someone else's marriage, and you shouldn't interfere either, especially where your parents are concerned. It creates too many casualties if you do.

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 13:07

All the family has seen this change in her and all are worried but she refuses to see that anything is wrong.
And even though I love my dad it will be along time before I forgive him fro what he did and he understands that.

OP posts:
Offred · 17/08/2012 13:08

You are speculating about her reasons. It is her choice, it may be because she isn't well, it may be that things your DF has said has provoked her to distance herself from other friends (it may not be) it may be he is talking down her new friends. Just on the facts your DF has committed a serious crime against your DM and you are treating him as the victim and the choice to leave him as irrational. That is quite an abnormal attitude.

I am extremely sceptical that anyone would hit their wife 25 years ago and 25 years later strangle her with nothing wrong in between and her saying nasty things about him and being depressed is nothing to do with the fact he is a man who hits her. PTSD does not make you hit your wife. Get that thought out of your mind. Also some of the behaviour you describe as your dad being nice and taking care of her is very controlling and a bit worrying. People who are depressed don't normally get frogmarched to the doctors by their husbands against their will.

solidgoldbrass · 17/08/2012 13:08

JOW: It is more than possible that your mum has dumped everyone she used to know because longterm friends and family have been colluding with your father's abuse of her over the years and telling her to suck it up, marriage is for better or worse, maybe she should be more obedient and a 'better wife', etc. As is very, very common in 'close' communities.

I appreciate that this is very hard for you but even if your mother is behaving sefishly, she is still an adult and has every right to leave your father if she wants to. It's not up to you to sort this out; look after yourself and keep a safe distance.

Offred · 17/08/2012 13:12

If you are living in the family home, treating him as the victim who has been drawn to terrible behaviour and her behaviour in leaving as mentally ill I'm not surprised she says she is alone:

MissFaversam · 17/08/2012 13:15

I was a daddy's girl OP.

One day my mum upped and did almost exactly what your mum is doing. She went to work in a pub.

I sided with my dad.

I can now see how controlling of my mum he was.

She had no real friends. I now remember him saying that friends were not needed all they did was get into your business. All you need is a partner.
All she did was look after kids all day.
Dad would come home. Sit in "his" chair and have his dinner handed to him every night then watch the telly till bed time.

What a sad existance for my mum.

tethersend · 17/08/2012 13:15

JOW, I was 19 when my parents split up in the most awful way, too. I know how it feels to want everything to go back to normal straight away, and remember the desperate urge I had to fix things and glue them back together as quickly as possible. You can't, though- this is what hurts so badly. You cannot fix this.

It's quite possible that your mum is unwell.

However, she may be able to get better without getting back together with your dad- and I think it is this which you should support her to do. If she says she does not want to be with your dad, for whatever reason, listen to her.

If she is ill, she may actually need to be on her own in order to get better.

The best advice I can give you is to step back, and take care of yourself.

You can't make this better.

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 13:17

No one would collude with my father over abuse I can assure you of that! She is a victim but she won't even go and see anyone or talk to anyone thats offered help.

OP posts:
Offred · 17/08/2012 13:21

She is not a victim, she is the victim though isn't she? If everyone who is offering help also believes her marriage is happy and she should consider reconciling then she may not want help.

MissFaversam · 17/08/2012 13:22

How long ago did this all happen OP? a week or so ago? Clearly she isn't ready yet.

Offred · 17/08/2012 13:25

My parents colluded with my ex over abuse, this is because he made it look like the rational choice. Carefully and subtly. They supported him to take me to court, involved themselves in contact and "took control" because I was "mentally ill" and "not behaving rationally". They have their own issues but this was just wrong of them all though I understand how they got that impression and why they behaved how they did, I did not want their "help" either and this confirmed to them I was "mad".

JOW87 · 17/08/2012 13:25

MissFaversam, my mum has always had a large circle of friends and there has never been any restriction on where or what she should do. All housework has always been split 50/50 with them including bringing us kids up.
Tethersend, I know I can't fix it but mum is ill. All I want is for both of them to be in the proper place before they make life changing decisions. If that means being apart then what will be will be.

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